Is it impossible for men to criticize female politicians without bringing the sexism?
Maybe not impossible. But incredibly rare.
Here’s Matt Taibbi on Imus (yes, that would be Don “black women are nappy-headed hos” Imus), discussing his Rolling Stone piece on Michele Bachmann:
Transcript:
Taibbi: “Actually, yeah, I’m actually kind of rooting for her to win the nomination, because I can’t wait to see the porn movies that they make. The Bachmann-inspired porn films are going to be great…I mean, who didn’t see ‘Nailin’ Palin’? That was classic cinema.”
You know, I would be the first to say that Michele Bachmann is an absolute nutjob. She really is. The stuff she believes is just ridiculous.
But you know what isn’t ridiculous? The fact that she’s female. Really. Femaleness is not some grotesque trait to be mocked; it’s not some character flaw; it’s not some weirdo political stance that is ripe for ridicule. And if you can’t criticize a woman’s politics without mentally subjecting her to the porn-film/inflatable-doll/nutcracker treatment, then you’re a goddamn sexist twit.
56 Responses to “Is it impossible for men to criticize female politicians without bringing the sexism?”
-
Don Durito says:
Regrettably, it seems when it comes to sexism, we really have not progressed much at all during my lifetime. There are days I really hate the world in which my children are growing up.
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:28 pm EST -
Janie says:
Only the men do it.
-
ugsome says:
Janie, the women do it too, so they can be “in” with the hipster douchebags they’re afraid won’t like them.
-
Sameol says:
What’s the downside? Taibbi’s fan base gets beyond juiced and everybody else will overlook it because it pales in comparison to the fact that he embeds the occasional nugget of valuable information in his steaming piles of sexist, classist crap. Nir Rosen probably applauded Lara Logan’s sexual assault on his way to a conference with a “real journalist” like Mr. “Nappy Headed Hos,” the culture speaks for itself.
-
angie says:
Oy vey! Now I’m going to have to start defending Michelle Bachmann too? I really hate these d00ds for doing this to me.
As 2008 taught me, it is de rigueur for the guys to bring sexism into any discussion of female politicians. But, in all fairness, Matt Taibbi is one of the absolute worst of the frat boy “journalists” working today, IMO. He practically makes Chris Matthews look like Gloria Steinem.
-
Teresainpa says:
janie, no, we have talked and talked about how pathetic it is that women do it too. That’s not news. But thank you for the link. I just posted the following (which will probably be deledted)
caribou barbie and making sh*t up about her view on sex and sex education? Don’t we have enough dumb a$$ men to keep sexism alive and prospering? Do we really need women to help out?
Disagree with her, I do, but this is pathetic. You are no smarter than the blogger boyz sippy kup kids.
-
lynnerkat says:
I read his whole piece at Rolling Stone, and like you said there was the occasional nugget, but it was hard to take all the nasty comments about her appearance- Not to mention the insinuation that lying is built into female “genetics”. I’m not sure how to link to it, but it’s over at Susie’s.
-
votermom says:
I saw your post title and “Is it impossible for men to criticize female politicians without bringing the sexism?” and I thought
“In theory no, but apparently in practice yes.”And then I read your post. Sad that USA culture is so predictable. Sometimes I wish I had an endless supply of soap and the ability to wash the mouths of these haters.
-
Teresainpa says:
ugh, I actually watched that clip and was even more disgusted. And of course there was a reference to lesbian sex between Palin and Bachmann. Why am I surprised?
-
Shannon Drury says:
This crap is beyond frustrating. Bachmann has so much crazy going on that Taibbi could have written a tome as thick as anything by Tolstoy. Yet he goes THERE?
-
Violet Socks says:
I feel compelled to point out to readers that Shannon Drury (comment #10) is the president of Minnesota NOW, and thus has the great joy of actually sharing a state with Michele Bachmann.
Shannon, I thought the same thing.
-
votermom says:
Well, I think the reason sexism is the attack method of choice is because it scares off supporters. The sexist attack is like throwing cooties — so if one defends Bachmann or Palin from it one is in danger of catching the same cooties.
-
Henrietta says:
Today is just one of those days in the world of shitty misogynistic journalists and shitty misogynistic blogsters (janie’s link).
Yes, Bachmann is SCARY! I can be convinced of voting with my vagina on occasion but I could not vote for this woman. And yet… it’s so wonderful to skip right on over to the topic of potential porn videos.
Janie, the link you posted is infuriating. Another misogynistic fantasy rumor, that Palin is abstinence-only. Because it’s entirely amusing to make fun of the mothers of pregnant teens. I wrote this a while back to deal with this sexist rumor and I am not surprised to see that this rumor still has traction. It’s just too much fun!
http://www.thenewagenda.net/20.....education/
I do not like Bachmann at all. My opinion on Palin is mixed. But we must let the people decide with real facts about all of our women candidates without letting misogyny rule. If the people want a nutjob like Bachmann, then by all means let them vote for her. Bachmann would simply be the face of our country. I do not think the people want a Bachmann though which is good. So it’s nothing but misogyny that has us descending into the world of Bachmann porn fantasies!
-
myiq2xu says:
A few months ago I noticed that the media suddenly started to treat Bachmann differently – as a serious contender rather than a kook.
It seemed to me they were building her up as the alternate vagina-candidate to Sarah Palin (because you can only have one vagina-candidate at a time)
I figured they were building her up so they could tear her down after Sarah was defeated.
-
Sweet Sue says:
I’m sorry this is so OT but here’s my email to Southwest Airlines. I’d love to know what other skysmoking lounge lizards thought about the pilot’s remarks. Okay, I can guess.
Dear Madam or Sir:
Why won’t you disclose the name of the pilot who made those disgusting remarks about flight attendants?
Until you do, I will never fly with you because I might be flying with that clown who thinks his colleagues are his (disappointing) harem. I couldn’t trust his judgment.
I’m sure your other employees know who the slob is-bet his wife does, too-and will make the rest of his career uncomfortable, but that’s not good enough.
Do the right thing, SA, and fire that cretin. Does he have to use the n word before you do? Isn’t the hateful homophobia and misogyny enough?
Sincerely
S. C. LLoyd -
Gayle says:
In one way, I’m glad he went there.
I’m sick and tired of hearing men pretend they don’t see how pron degrades and humiliates women.
They know damn right well it does and here’s your proof.
-
jjmtacoma says:
Votermom – I love your “cooties” comment because it is so true. That’s how they do it at work too but even more below the radar.
-
lambert strether says:
Jeebus, and I thought Taibbi was getting smarter.
-
tinfoil hattie says:
Men know pron degrades and humiliates women. That’s why they like it.
-
Swannie says:
But the difference is no one will get fired for this garbage will they ???
.. and btw I think calling her a NUTJOB doesn’t help no matter how much you disagree with her ideas.
-
votermom says:
.. and btw I think calling her a NUTJOB doesn’t help no matter how much you disagree with her ideas.
ITA, Swannie.
jjmtacoma, thanks. :)
-
Violet Socks says:
I really hate internet abbreviations.
As for “nutjob,” I’m perfectly happy with it. It’s pretty mild, actually, yet appropriate. I don’t just disagree with Bachmann’s ideas, if we can call a collection of paranoid superstitions “ideas.” I think she is a nutjob.
-
anna says:
Maybe I’m just being humorless, but speaking as someone who has actual mental health issues, I wish people wouldn’t say things like nutjob. Isn’t it enough to say Bachmann has horrible politics and ridiculous, horrible ideas? Or you could get more specific and say she’s being paranoid, superstitious, fanatical etc. But just saying crazy etc, lumping in mental health issues with being a rightwing freak who hates women and gay people, that’s not really on I think.
-
Violet Socks says:
I disagree. “Nutjob” is not a clinical diagnosis. (“Paranoia” is, by the way. So not sure why you think that’s better.)
The problem is that there isn’t really a discrete set of terms to describe, on the one hand, mentally ill people with clinical disorders, as opposed to people out there in the world who have completely bizarre ideas. The language just doesn’t exist; there aren’t two separate vocabularies.
I personally think “nutjob” is an excellent choice to describe people of the latter type, since it is most certainly not a clinical term and never has been.
-
anna says:
“The problem is that there isn’t really a discrete set of terms to describe, on the one hand, mentally ill people with clinical disorders, as opposed to people out there in the world who have completely bizarre ideas. The language just doesn’t exist; there aren’t two separate vocabularies.”
You know that’s probably it. I guess words like paranoid and schizo that could refer to actual diagnoses should be avoided in the meantime then. Nutjob it is.
-
anna says:
Avoided for use as insults I mean.
-
Cynthia Ruccia says:
Men keep writing this ridiculous drivel because they can. And women will continue to suffer from the results of this garbage until they decide to put party affiliation aside and band together to put an end to it. It seems that for women, if you’re a lefty you can do it to women on the right and vice versa. The divide and conquer has divided and conquered us. We women would rather whine than do something effective about it. It makes my head explode…….
-
Monchichipox says:
What would a President Bachmann do that would be so much worse than a President Obama? So long as she has a vagina she’s my kind of crazy.
-
angie says:
votermom –I agree sexism is the attack method of choice because it “scares” off supporters (also love your cooties analogy!).
But I also think sexism is the attack because it is so much easier to dismiss a woman as a bitch/whore/harpy than outline logical arguments to counterpoint her positions. I believe the boyz don’t think a female candidate is worth that much effort.
-
Henrietta says:
Angie,
Yes, once you start responding to issues, make logical arguments, etc. you are treating the female candidate as if they are worthy of being in the race. So much easier (and so fun!) to simply pornify the woman.
-
Unree says:
Quel surprise that after Amanda Marcotte praised Taibbi’s piece and described Bachmann as “screeching,” I got called a troll over on Pandagon for recommending Dr. Socks’ thoughts (very politely) to the readership.
I didn’t really mind being reprimanded for my hypersensitivity and censoriousness by a silly earnest keyboard-challenged twit. And “troll” gets flung around too much to matter. I did mind the commentariat silence: Pandagon has an affable crowd, probably semi-identified as feminist–and nobody on that board thinks there is any sexism to speak of in the Taibbi-Bachmann tale.
-
Three Wickets says:
Taibbi is a pig. The only way you can’t smell his piggishness is if you smell like a pig yourself. Anyway, Amanda did go out of her way to give a light slap on the wrist to that other pig of the week Scott Adams. Guess that’s progress. Jezebel has been stronger on Adams. Now that’s a guy with some issues. Men are naturally programmed to rape, and women are probably to blame because they have square holes, or something. Yeah okay. Good luck with the rest of your evaporating career.
-
angie says:
From the Scott Adams’s piece linked by Three Wickets:
The part that interests me is that society is organized in such a way that the natural instincts of men are shameful and criminal while the natural instincts of women are mostly legal and acceptable.
Am I losing my mind? Did this d00d actually write this & think he was making some kind of valid, reasonable argument?
Yep, a man’s natural instinct is to oppress women as the sex class; hence, the Patriarchy. It seems to have worked out pretty well for them so far. I only wish I lived in the world he does where men treating women as nothing but fuck dolls for their pleasure was actually “shameful and criminal.” {rolls eyes}
-
Ciardha says:
Taibbi is the scum who started the media attack on Hillary in October 2007. He wrote this vile attack article on Hillary calling her Nixon and worse, and as soon as he did all the fauxgressive doods like Olbermann spouted the same words and worse, Olbermann did his first nasty “special comment” attack using the same phrases not 1 week after Taibbi’s Rolling Stone article. I noticed RS misogyny level majorly amped up at that point- female musicians and singers insulted in pornifying captions to pictures, articles about how great porn is, etc… really repulsive attitudes toward women all over the magazine….
-
Sameol says:
Didn’t Pandagon used to be an ostensibly feminist site? I know Amanda has always had her issues, but if the community thinks you’re a troll for perverting their space with a little feminism, I’m really not looking forward to another fun election season.
-
Unree says:
Sameol, yeah, I had the same thought about the 2012 election. The community at Pandagon might not agree I’m a troll (I was defended), but so far nobody has supported what I said about misogyny. And I think the thread is dead. But when posting there I mis-typed Reclusive Leftist. Preview is my friend, or it would be if I let it…
-
Katie Schwartz says:
I hear you. I appreciate where you’re coming from. That said, I am no less a feminist for mocking women who characterize women as second class citizens or who want to throw women back 50+ years. To me, it is appalling and egregious when women don’t stand up for women’s rights. Michelle Bachmann and Palin do not represent women’s rights in any way, shape or form.
That’s just my opinion. Bravo Free Speech.
-
Allison says:
@34 Ciardha – the commercial music industry as a whole is fiercely misogynistic – rock & roll, country, and hip-hop in particular. It’s flaky, brutally competitive and probably the deepest, darkest pit of snakes on the planet besides politics. Musicians have written songs about that – “Welcome to the Machine” by Pink Floyd; Joni Mitchell’s “Free Man in Paris” and many more come to mind. Jon Fogarty’s own brother sold him out and he quit writing songs for decades. Cat Stevens dropped out and got religion.
Besides being male-dominated, women do themselves no favors by throwing themselves at male performers. Young women in our culture are not encouraged to learn or play music, just how to dress like a groupie.
I’d love to see a post about the above – I’m no expert – this is just my experience and observation.
-
Sophie says:
I always thought that when guys were into pron like that it was because they felt inadequate in some way. I also thought that the behavior of the frat boys (Taibbi, Keith O., John Favreau, Chris Matthews, etc.) during the 2008 primaries indicated that they were all in the small wee wee club.
—-
(Likely, that comment is inappropriate because we, being a gentle angry people, singing for our lives, do not stoop to their level. Violet, I will not feel slighted if you delete it to maintain the decorum of your space.) -
Violet Socks says:
That said, I am no less a feminist for mocking women who characterize women as second class citizens or who want to throw women back 50+ years.
The problem isn’t with mockery per se, but with sexist mockery. And if you engage in sexist mockery, then yes, I think you are “less a feminist.” I don’t think perpetuating sexism is compatible with feminism, which is all about removing sexism from the table—as a tool, as a weapon, as a mode of thought.
If you think sexism is fine when it’s directed at “bad” women, then that’s pretty much the same as thinking racism is fine as long as it’s directed at “bad” black people, and homophobia is fine as long as it’s directed at “bad” gays, and anti-semitism is fine as long as it’s directed at “bad” Jews…see the problem?
-
Jay says:
I am a new reader of this blog. I was referred here by an Arthur Silber post.
Unlike most of the commenters here I am a HUGE Taibbi fan – but Violet Socks is 110% right on this. Taibbi slipped into Imus sexist jerk mode to his great shame.
-
Violet Socks says:
Jay, I think Matt Taibbi is an excellent writer. As long as he’s not in sexist jerk mode, I enjoy him. Unfortunately it seems sexist jerk mode is only a heartbeat away with this guy.
-
ugsome says:
Not only is it rare for men, it’s increasingly rare for women too. Read this and weep.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINIO.....?hpt=hp_t2
When I read that piece I hear, “Oh no, here comes the political gangbang again! Anything but that! Please, lock me up in a burqa behind stone walls, anything but that!”
-
ugsome says:
The Guardian criticises Bachmann without resort to sexism http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....ntial-iowa . Taibbi and other members of the douchetocracy, take note.
-
Sameol says:
To me, it is appalling and egregious when women don’t stand up for women’s rights.
I feel you on that. I do. I understand the temptation to judge our own, so to speak, more harshly. But I just wonder where this is getting us. Politicians are what, 80 male or so? It just seems like maybe if we stopped obsessing quite so much over how a tiny minority, Republican and Democrat alike, are letting us down and disappointing us one way or another and put that time into being appalled and considering it egregious when all those men don’t stand up for women’s rights, it might just end up being a more effective strategy. Not certainly, but hopefully.
-
teresainpa says:
Taibbi and other members of the douchetocracy, take note.
Doucetocracy…..love it. Are they an integral part of dude nation or is that just another name for the dudebros?
-
teresainpa says:
I have a question. Is is okay to just be a feminist already? Have we gotten to that point yet or are women still racked by guilt for not doing enough for all the other minority groups we are supposed to care about first?
Can we just be happy there is a woman front runner? Yes Violet, I am sure her marriage is nothing like she tells other people to have. She is pandering to her socially conservative base. She should take that sh*t back.
But mostly I would like to know if women are allowed to just be feminists and NOT have to take on all other people’s issues just because the guys will not like us if we don’t do as they think we should? -
Lacithedog says:
As for Michelle Bachmann, I want her to turn out to be a US version of Democratic Unionist politician Iris Robinson. We have the religious fanatic idiot part, we just need the hypocritical scandal to go with it.
Nothing sexist about it. Robinson and Bachmann are both odious people and they deserve to be shamed into obscurity.
-
Violet Socks says:
Lacidog, here in the U.S. we’ve had plenty of scandals involving conservative Christian politicians, but it doesn’t make any difference.
-
teresainpa says:
and btw I think calling her a NUTJOB doesn’t help no matter how much you disagree with her ideas.
YES, thank you. I would like to suggest that women STOP making disclaimers about women candidates. You don’t have to attack them, men do a great job of that for all of us. We can leave it to them and get on with supporting women’s right to be taken seriously and that includes women we disagree with.
-
Violet Socks says:
A few things, folks:
1. I am never going to stop using the word “nutjob.” Also never going to stop using words like “batshit crazy.” It’s my blog, and that’s how I write.
2. It is extremely important not to engage in sexist criticism of women candidates (or of any women). But I think some of you are confusing that with not engaging in criticism of women candidates at all. If you personally believe that’s the way to go, fine; but I don’t share your opinion. I do generally prefer to train my firepower on male politicians, since women get so much guff, BUT: if a woman is a frontrunner or otherwise in the news, I’m not going to completely stifle myself from commenting on her.
3. Michele Bachmann is a nutjob. She is not just some conservative Republican with ideas with which one can disagree. This is a woman who hides in the bushes to spy on gay people, thinks lesbians are trying to kidnap her, and calls for people to slit their wrists in a blood oath against ObamaCare. That (among other reasons) is why I call her a nutjob.
4. Michele Bachmann, like other women, should be able to run for office or do anything in the world without being subjected to sexism. Sexism is always wrong, always. But that doesn’t mean that Michele Bachmann doesn’t deserve to be criticized and even mocked on other accounts (see #3 above).
-
teresainpa says:
But I also think sexism is the attack because it is so much easier to dismiss a woman as a bitch/whore/harpy than outline logical arguments to counterpoint her positions. I believe the boyz don’t think a female candidate is worth that much effort.
You forgot nutjob….
Violet, i am going to say what I think and first say that I always get in trouble because I almost never go with the flow in any group I belong to. I consider this blog a group I belong to.
Violet if Bachmann was Hindu or just new age, would you be as comfortable calling her beliefs crazy superstitions and hanging the to?
We never see the kind of malice thrown at Evangelical Christians repeated in regards to other religions and yet it would be just as easy… weren’t we ALL Cleopatra in a past life?Most Americans believe some version more or less the same as Bachmann. When we use her religion to mock her and fail to dismiss the men on the same grounds we are only doing the job of sexist a$$holes everywhere. There is not a male candidate, no matter how religious right he might be who gets dismissed the way Bachmann does by women right here on this blog. Seriously, think about it.
-
teresainpa says:
that sentence is supposed to read: “Violet if Bachmann was Hindu or just new age, would you be as comfortable calling her beliefs crazy superstitions?”
I have no idea where those extra words came from. -
Violet Socks says:
Teresa, it’s not religious beliefs per se. Not at all. I know plenty of Christians who do not hold odious beliefs about women’s inferiority or about the evils of homosexuality. But those beliefs are indeed odious, and I am not going to give them a pass anywhere. Not in Christianity, not in Islam, not in Buddhism, not anywhere.
I am first and foremost a feminist, and I simply have no tolerance for the doctrine that women are inferior.
There is not a male candidate, no matter how religious right he might be who gets dismissed the way Bachmann does by women right here on this blog.
I’m going to assume that this is just a syntactical problem with your sentence. Because on this blog, I have a long history of railing against freakazoids like Mike Huckabee. If you were to do some kind of survey of the verbiage spewed on this blog over the past 5+ years, you would find an overwhelming majority of it directed against male politicians and religious leaders, and comparatively very, very little against females.
-
Violet Socks says:
Most Americans believe some version more or less the same as Bachmann.
You think so? I don’t. Sure, most Americans are Christians, but most Americans also have brown hair. That doesn’t mean they’re on the same page as Bachmann. This is a person who’s worried about “The Lion King” as an example of gay propaganda. Do you really think most Americans would go along with that?
-
Kali says:
If you were to do some kind of survey of the verbiage spewed on this blog over the past 5+ years, you would find an overwhelming majority of it directed against male politicians and religious leaders, and comparatively very, very little against females.
That’s my impression too. You’re one of the rare ones, though, even among the feminist blogs I generally respect. I believe in affirmative action. It is not enough for me not to discriminate against women when everyone else is discriminating against women. I will affirmatively avoid criticizing women when there are so many, too many, to fill that gap and more.
