What she said

Thursday, December 16th, 2010 · 28 Comments »

I don’t have time for a real post, but this is good. Read, tweet if you can, etc.

When I posted on the Julian Assange Rape Apologia Emporium last week, Anglofille was just about the only feminist blogger pushing back. Glad to see the spirit’s catching. Just waiting though for someone to lecture us that lefty men are “mostly on our side” and it therefore makes no sense to alienate them. Because yes, I have heard that before.

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28 Responses to “What she said”

  1. Three Wickets says:

    That’s good, will circulate. Fucking male progressives are not on the side of women. Not the ones with the big megaphones. Also good to see some of the young feminist activists come around on Assange. Naomi Wolf can kiss my ass. She was always a men loving egotist before she was a feminist.

  2. Nessum says:

    That post is not only “good” it is absolutely brilliant!

    Only one thing: Assange didn’t “flee” Sweden. He was free to leave. Just as one of the Swedish women didn’t “flee” Sweden recently and “declined to cooperate with the police” as has been rumored. Why is it that only the gossipy smearing and defamation of these women reach the frontpages?

    This is another great ‘rant’. The last two paragraphs reads:

    The fact is, we just don’t know anything right now. Assange may be a rapist, or he may not. His accuser may be a spy or a liar or the heir to Valerie Solanas, or she might be a sexual assault victim who now also gets to enjoy having her name dragged through the mud, or all of the above. The charges against Assange may be retaliation for Cablegate or (cough) they may not.

    Public evidence, as the Times noted, is scarce. So, it’s heartening to see that in the absence of same, my fellow liberal bloggers are so eager to abandon any pretense of healthy skepticism and rush to discredit an alleged rape victim based on some tabloid articles and a feverish post by someone who is perhaps not the most trustworthy source. Well done, friends! What a fantastic show of research, critical thinking and, as always, respect for women.

  3. tinfoil hattie says:

    Doyle’s pieces on this subject are quite powerful. She’s got one today that is breathtaking.

    Of course, Olbermann blocked her tweets.


  4. Alex says:

    The problem is that progressive men rape. Progressive men will never see the POV of the rape victim ( unless said rapist is a republlican). When I was a young progressive woman in college I had several friends who were raped. Not by strangers on the subway at night. But by there progressive friends, acquaintances and classmates. Perhaps Michael Moore once raped a woman? perhaps he has a friend who raped an unconscious girl at a party? There is a reason that Moore has never taken VAW seriously and the reason is that he and his peers are part of the system and they do not want to acknowledge it.

  5. tinfoil hattie says:

    Alex, I think you pose excellent points, and I would also hazard that it’s not “cool” for nerdy men like Moore (who probably was not Homecoming King or Head Football Player Dude in H.S.) to go against the tide of men. Even if he didn’t rape anyone, ever, he will never be accepted as one of the Kewl Kids (hat tip to Digby & Atrios) if he stands against rape and against smearing rape victims.

  6. myiq2xu says:

    What seems to escape some “progressives” is that even though Assange’s prosecution may be politically motivated he is still guilty.

    Just because cases like this are not usually prosecuted doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be.

  7. tinfoil hattie says:

    The comments on Kate Harding’s Salon piece made me ill.

    BTW, I find it maddeningly offensive that “Broadsheet” is the name for the “women’s page” over at Salaon. Yes, yes, I get the reference to newsprint. Har de har har.

  8. Barbara A says:

    Myiq, exactly. We don’t know for sure if Assange is guilty, but if so, he should be prosecuted, political motivation or not.

  9. sam says:

    Michael Moore directed a whole movie about gun violence in America and couldn’t find one single thing to say about gender, not even when a 6-year-old boy found a gun at his uncle’s house and used it to kill a 6-year-old girl. That was all racism’s fault.

    A man who can miss the planet-sized “violence is gendered” mark like that is not progressive, he is regressive.

  10. Toonces says:

    The way women are hunted down so as to be publicly sacrificed in cases like this is terrifying. It’s a warning to the rest of us: We will destroy you if you try to get in the way of rape entitlement, bitchez.

  11. Three Wickets says:

    Olbermann the misogynist being himself.

  12. Unree says:

    Rape accusations against Assange are more than just okay with the d00dz–they’re a positive credential. Look at the d00dly indifference to Bradley Manning, another leaker who has been locked up and made to suffer severe pain even though he hasn’t been convicted of anything. If Manning were accused of heterosexual rape, he’d enjoy a lot of support.

    Yes, I really am that bitter. I’m facing reality: this is how many if not most progressive men roll.

  13. Sameol says:

    It’s just inspiring that the righteous, intrepid Warriors for Truth are so busy muddying the waters by spreading all manner of falsehoods about the facts of the case and the victims. Sometimes facts are overrated and lies increase one’s credibilty exponentially.

  14. Carmonn says:

    To be perfectly honest, I think rape apologia trumps politics, for progressive doodz at least. If the country’s worst right-winger (well, worst male right winger, of course the women are the worst of the worst) raped the woman with the greatest progressive cred in history, they absolutely wouldn’t be able to resist reflexively trashing her and rallying to his cause.

    Enemies become heroes, all is forgiven.

  15. Sweet Sue says:

    Forty years ago, the sexism of progressive guys (dudes were on ranches or beaches)drove women out of the anti war movement and, so, began feminism’s second wave.
    Nothing has changed, the dudes are among our worst enemies.
    No, they are our worst because they can distract us with their devotion to shared goals.
    To the barricades!

  16. Sweet Sue says:

    My comments disappear, then show up and, then disappear again.
    I don’t know what I’m doing wrong-I’ll try again, later.

  17. myiq2xu says:

    Kate Harding has more to say:


  18. simplywondered says:

    as i’ve said here before, i agree we men on the left largely fail to take rape seriously as an issue, and that we must do so.

    however, i can’t go with the analysis that getting bail for an accused somehow demeans the complainant, her veracity or lessens the gravity of the offence. in english law there is a presumption in favour of granting bail: the presumption may be displaced on the grounds of (inter alia) the strength of the case, the severity of the charges, the likelihood of the accused to surrender to court.

    in this case, that makes the job of the english court a bit harder than normal. there will be fewer details of the charges. once the potential defendant has satisfied the court he won’t run, it is likely in most cases he will be granted bail. the system isn’t generally happy about keeping people yet to be convicted in jail (and cynically that may be based as much on money as principle). realistically it isn’t likely assange is going anywhere and it is fair to keep him out of jail.

    it’s a whole different question from the lies about sweden being some crackpot state with rape laws that no sensible country would countenance.

  19. simplywondered says:

    … but what i’d like to know is whether moore would have linked himself publicly to someone accused of a crime taken seriously by the establishment like murder or child abuse.

    the view i hear most often about assange when friends discuss the case here in the uk is that he seems a bit of a creepy character. obviously if he has raped either woman that doesn’t even begin to cover it.

    and the rubbishing of the complainants is just shite (unfortunately – or maybe fortunately for my blood pressure – i haven’t heard of moore doing it). like the very early random tag of one complainant as a (horror of horrors) ‘radical feminist’. still, more and better has been said here and elsewhere about rape silencing by those far better qualified than me; so on that subject at least ‘what she said’.

  20. Three Wickets says:

    Bit OT, this Google Ngram thing is all the rage. Check out for instance this graph of the aggregate occurrence of the words “god,” “men” and “women” in books over the past 200 hundred years. The most recent 15 years are interesting.

  21. Toonces says:

    simplywondered, Michael Moore called the rape allegations “hooey” on Keith Olbermann’s show, and said that no one should believe the “official story”. I think that’s trashing the accusers. He also hasn’t contributed to getting Manning out, as pointed out above by Unree.

    I’d also like to point out (in general, not @ simplywondered) that hacking is an exercise in boundary transgression. As is Assange’s life work of getting private info. As is what he’s accused of. Just sayin’. Some people get off on crossing the line, just to cross it. Is that still heroism?

  22. Sameol says:

    Sweet Sue, what I love the most is that every time we make our unreasonable demands, like “Please don’t sexually violate us” or “Acknowledge our humanity,” it turns out we’re not merely selfish, we’re heteronormative, racist, ethnocentric, state-aligned, upholding all of the injustices of the criminal justice system, and so much more.

    If I didn’t understand that women are the loci of reaction in the world and bourgie concepts like women’s rights conflict with true humanism, I’d be tempted to think that progressive men were masters of self-serving manipulation.

  23. Kali says:

    Check out for instance this graph of the aggregate occurrence of the words “god,” “men” and “women” in books over the past 200 hundred years. The most recent 15 years are interesting.

    Very interesting. I kind of sensed that pattern in the last 15 years but couldn’t find any proof. So, this is good. I did one for war, men, women. Very interesting too.

  24. Unree says:

    @simplywondered, I am not following you from 18-19, but @18 you appear not to be paying attention. What Michael Moore did wasn’t the posting of bail for Assange–reasonable people can disagree about whether that was a good idea. It was calling the rape accusations “hooey.”

  25. myiq2xu says:

    Everyone should read this:

    10 days in Sweden: the full allegations against Julian Assange

  26. Carmonn says:

    simplywondered, what makes you think Assange isn’t going anywhere? He seemed like a flight risk even before anyone realized how many wealthy supporters from Ken Loach to Moore to Jemima Kahn might be lining up to provide stops on the Rapists’ Underground Railroad.

  27. tinfoil hattie says:

    however, i can’t go with the analysis that getting bail for an accused somehow demeans the complainant, her veracity or lessens the gravity of the offence.

    Simply wondered, it’s a good thing no one has said that, then. What we have said, and what I will say until I draw my last breath is: It is possible to uphold the law, maintain the precious standard of innocent until proven guilty, and proceed with an investigation without calling rape victims and their supporters: c***s, wh***s, sl**ts, bi***es, man-haters, ruiners of the justice system, haters, reprobates, evil, honeypots, manipulators, vixens, CIA operatives, and crazy.

    Easy enough for you? Now, please go sweep up all that straw you flung around.

  28. Violet Socks says:

    simply is in the UK, and is I’m sure just unaware of what Moore actually said here on TV.