“She would have to be somebody’s Pygmalion project”
That’s Ron Kaufman talking about Sarah Palin and what would have to happen for her to run for president. Who’s Ron Kaufman? Some Republican dude you never heard of. Who’s Sarah Palin? Only the most famous Republican politician in the world, a woman who in one year has risen from near-obscurity to national cult icon, GOP kingmaker, bestselling author, and somebody people sleep on the pavement overnight to see.
But she needs a Henry Higgins to sort her out.
Guys crack me up.
82 Responses to ““She would have to be somebody’s Pygmalion project””
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Adrienne in CA says:
Dude also probably thinks Henry Higgens was the hero of that story.
*****ANovember 20th, 2009 at 4:49 am EST -
Nessum says:
Violet not to nitpick, but it is actually “Bruce Buchanan, a presidential historian at the University of Texas in Austin”, who says that. :)
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Aspen says:
Remember, whe she runs for prez, she’s not allowed to dress up or wear expensive clothes though. That would totally be an outrage. Candidates for national office must only wear potato sacks.
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scott says:
George W. Bush, on the other hand, was a fully formed statesman and nobody’s project. OK.
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monchichipox says:
I really hope Sarah doesn’t fall for this BS. The very last thing she needs is a Pigmaleion.
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janicen says:
She would have to be somebody’s Pygmalion project
What an outrageous, insulting, denigrating, disgusting, sexist, (am I leaving anything out?) thing to say. I’m too furious to continue this comment.
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yttik says:
Ron Kaufman is another completely clueless dude. I don’t believe Palin is going to fall for anything, monchichipox. I’ve finished her book, (know your enemy and all.) I’m chuckling here, but this is one powerful woman who is not going anywhere. In the name of self preservation and a desire to have as benevolent a leader as possible from the other side of the aisle, I would suggest those with liberal ideals get on her good side and attempt to advocate for their beliefs. She appears to be a reasonable woman with a good deal of common sense, I think she will listen to people’s concerns. The worst mistake people could make is to underestimate her or to attempt to dismiss and demean her. That would finish propelling her right to the top.
I’m still chuckling here, slightly tongue in cheek, but Hillary really needs to have that coffee summit with Palin and advocate for liberal ideals. Now, while there is still time.
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myiq2xu says:
If Palin starts taking advice from the “experts” she’s toast.
The first thing they’ll do is tell her to stop doing all the things that got her where she is today.
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DancingOpossum says:
“George W. Bush, on the other hand, was a fully formed statesman and nobody’s project. OK.”
Not to mention Obama. HA HA HA!!!
Did you see the lines of people waiting from early dawn to get a chance to meet Sarah and have her sign their copies of her book? Unreal. No Republican male politician would command an audience like that.
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lambert strether says:
yttik #7 on coffee summit: +1000.
Not only for the exploding heads on all sides, but for the defense of liberal ideas, and also, of course, because Hillary’s effortless superiority to Palin on policy would be very, very evident.
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okasha skatsi says:
The first thing they’ll do is tell her to stop doing all the things that got her where she is today.
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Earth colors, myiq. The bright red needs to go, particularly “those shoes.” (Cue the Eagles.) -
monchichipox says:
and for God’s sake get some contact lenses.
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yttik says:
“Hillary’s effortless superiority to Palin on policy would be very, very evident”
I don’t believe Hillary would make Palin look bad, if I’m reading the implication of your words right? No, I’d have to say that Palin may indeed be just as capable as Hillary at articulating policy wishes.
But what I wanted to say is that, wouldn’t it be absolutely fabulous if we had two women who cared deeply about the people they served, debating on how best to serve them? That’s what’s missing from politics today, amid all the partisan bickering, talking points, and special interests, nobody is actually arguing about how best to serve the people. I’m not even sure the people are on the list of concerns.
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monchichipox says:
My respect for Hillary grew immensely when they wanted her to campaign against Palin and she said she wasn’t going to give the media a “cat fight”.
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alwaysfiredup says:
I think the coffee summit is a great plan. I think what America wants is someone with liberal ideals but a conservative approach to implementation. If that person turns out to be Palin, heads will spin indeed.
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slythwolf says:
Well, you see, when someone doesn’t have upper-class speech patterns, that person has to be hidden away from the public, because lower- and middle-class people are shameful. Especially if they have vaginas.
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roofingbird says:
LOL. He was the indian gaming and ephedera guy.
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madamab says:
Oh, yttik. Really?
In the name of self preservation and a desire to have as benevolent a leader as possible from the other side of the aisle, I would suggest those with liberal ideals get on her good side and attempt to advocate for their beliefs.
Should Palin run for president, she will go hard, hard right, because that’s where her base is. To say that liberal women should try to change her is unrealistic, to say the least.
And to even suggest that Palin can stand up to Hillary in terms of policy wonkiness? Hilarious. Just, utterly hilarious. On what evidence do you base this assertion?
Heroine worship is never a good thing when speaking of politicians. I would have thought the Obama phenomenon would have taught us that, at least.
Violet, taking that dude’s sexist comments in another direction, I believe that Palin would need an Obama/Bush style media coverup to mask the fact that she is not experienced enough to be President. A year and a half in the Governor’s office does not a prepared POTUS make.
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BDBlue says:
But what I wanted to say is that, wouldn’t it be absolutely fabulous if we had two women who cared deeply about the people they served, debating on how best to serve them?
That would be fabulous, but Sarah Palin, IMO, qualifies only in being a woman. Based on the policies she advocates (pro-corporate, pro-polluter, anti-labor), I see little indication she truly cares about people. I hate the sexist smears of her as much as anyone, but that doesn’t turn her into some sort of great political leader or make her policies any better. Just as she isn’t worse than the typical GOP politician because she’s a woman (although she’s made out to be), she also isn’t any better. It can be tempting to want see in her things that aren’t there because many of the people smearing her are assholes, but, to paraphrase Bob Somerby- she is awful, they are elitist and sexist, see how easy that is?
I find it fascinating that so many people who loved Obama hate Palin because to me their supporters have a lot in common. They both see in them cultural markers that they think make one or the other of them their ally, when in reality, the records of each do not back that up.
If you want a strong, outspoken woman that insider Washington hates and who really does care about people, might I suggest Elizabeth Warren? That’s what a true rogue looks like, one who puts the American people’s best interest first.
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octogalore says:
Agree with madamab — I don’t think Palin can stand up to HRC on policy wonkiness. I don’t think it’s impossible that she ever could, but certainly not right now. Of course, Obama couldn’t either. He never won a debate with HRC.
Still, in a way the better comparison is how HRC vs Palin fare against Obama.
Here, Palin has an advantage, becuase HRC was unable to attack Obama as hard as she wanted to on issues like preparedness, his plagiarism, etc., as it would make her look bad and racist to people whose votes she needed. Palin would not look that way. As long as she kept the debate issue-driven, as HRC always did, Palin’s base would welcome these arguments. HRC had an obstacle there, compounded by the eagerness of women to feel more heroic for championing race over gender, that Palin wouldn’t have.
I don’t think, however Palin campaigned, she’d govern hard, hard right. She’s never, to my knowledge, explicitly taken a position different from Obama on gay rights nor shown any sign of wanting anti-Roe Supreme Court judges. She’s rightwing, but on a policy level she seems more driven by fiscal issues.
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Patti says:
#17
Palin was Gov for 2 1/2 years, not 1 1/2 years.
Her base is hard, hard right? What makes you say that? She seems to be your average, moderate Republican. Perhaps you’re thinking of Huckabee.
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cwaltz says:
I’m going to go with moderate as well. Everything she did as governor suggests as much. I mean this is a person who increased funding for social programs,vetoed a bill that dicriminated against gay people on constitutionality, appointed a pro choice judge to the bench instead of sending them back despite her personal convictions on choice, told the oil companies to either drill it or lose it and insisted that the citiznes get their share of the resources allocated in Alaska, rooted out corruption within her own party despite pushback….
The last thing I would call her would be a right wing ideologue. Mind you I do agree she has been tacking right to appeal to her base but her actions while in office do suggest a more moderate style of governing, not extreme.
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yttik says:
“..to even suggest that Palin can stand up to Hillary in terms of policy wonkiness? On what evidence do you base this assertion?”
Because neither one of them are speaking from a teleprompter or a notebook, they are speaking from the heart. Palin has established her belief system based on experience and policies that she has put into action. She’s quite capable of discussing policy with Hillary. To suggest that Hillary would mock and ridicule Palin’s hypothetical policy stupidity is to seriously underestimate Palin. (And Hillary. Hillary practices that ancient feminist code of not attacking other women for the benefit of patriarchy.)
I don’t care if people like her or not, I just suggest people stop underestimating her.
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Violet says:
Hey, Nessum, you’re right. I messed up. That’s what I get for posting while sleepy.
MadamaB, I think it’s interesting that people feel free to talk about Sarah Palin as Eliza Doolittle, but nobody in the Republican camp talked about the idiot Dubya that way.
You may be right that she would need Dubya-style handling to cover her inexperience; an added difficulty is that the media will be merciless. And whereas stupid men like Dubya and Joe Biden are automatically given the benefit of the doubt (oh, he’s ill-spoken, but surely he’s really smart), we all know it doesn’t work that way for women.
On the other hand, Palin has something that is almost unparalleled in my lifetime: rock star-like cult popularity. She’s like Andrew Jackson or something. It is amazing the effect she has on people.
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Violet says:
Don’t you guys get tired of having to compare Palin to Hillary? I do. It just points up the incredible dearth of women. It’s like having to compare John Edwards to Rudy Guiliani, and only Rudy Guiliani. Only these two guys exist!
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Violet says:
Just as she isn’t worse than the typical GOP politician because she’s a woman (although she’s made out to be), she also isn’t any better.
I agree. However, I would say that simply having A Woman in that slot rather than A Man is, by itself, a good thing. Because we need more women, we need to break the glass ceiling, we need to get past that barrier. So if the next president is going to be an awful Republican, it’s better for it to be an awful Republican woman than an awful Republican man. Even though she as an individual wouldn’t be any better. See what I mean?
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myiq2xu says:
If Sarah was elected POTUS and picked some men with lots of DC experience as her top advisors the media would say she was just a figurehead or puppet.
If she picked women for the top jobs the media would call the White House a henhouse.
If Palin surrounded herself with DC outsiders they would say she was “going rogue again.”
I sure hope Sarah doesn’t waste time worrying about what the media thinks because as far as they are concerned nothing she does will ever be right.
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Melinda says:
Have you seen the newest Huffington Post hack job? Apparently, Palin’s kids are just “media props” b/c they were taped trick-or-treating during the campaign and the Oprah show accompanied them this year.
I seem to remember Obama’s kids being taped trick-or-treating and being photographed and videotaped many, many times during the campaign. Heck, he even set them up with an interview! And of course, they’ve been completely “invisible” since he took office. Please!
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lambert strether says:
#23 “Speaking from the heart?” There are lots of people who speak from the heart, George Bush among them. I’d call that a nice-to-have, not a have-to-have. And if you think that Hillary would not demonstrate “effortless superiority” over Palin on policy…. Well, good luck with that.
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lambert strether says:
#24 Violet writes:
On the other hand, Palin has something that is almost unparalleled in my lifetime: rock star-like cult popularity.
“Almost unparalleled”? Er, were you out of the country in 2008?
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Violet says:
Part of the situation here is that the left has become rabidly anti-woman. Who was it who said last year that the misogyny genie was out of the bottle? And it’s not going back in. That makes a big impact.
Obviously we all know that the right has long been anti-woman, and the left has been the only place women’s rights have gotten a hearing (though men on the left are sexist too). But people looking at the scene today see something very different. The strong woman is on the right, and the left is crucifying her in the most sexist terms imaginable.
If you read the liberal blogs right now, what you see is a massive outpouring of misogyny. Daily Kos is even linking to hate sites like Rumproast, which is basically Stormfront for male supremacists. It’s completely out of control. Makes it kind of hard to argue that the Democrats are really on women’s side. Abortion rights? Oh, yeah, sure. Unless they need to be sacrificed for a shitty health care bill.
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Keri says:
Palin said something interesting in one of the recent interviews when asked about the abortion issue- “I do not think anyone who has an abortion should be punished” That’s way different than any other conservative politician I’ve ever heard. And it’s a good explanation why she choose the prochoice Democratic woman (a former head of a Planned Parenthood office), over the right wing religious Republican antichoice man for the empty seat on Alaska’s Supreme Court. She also talked about when she got the news about her 5th child having Downs Syndrome she felt scared and overwhelmed and understood why some women would choose to have an abortion in the face of that. She didn’t consider that for even a moment, but it gave her a bit of a perspective.
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yttik says:
“I’d call that a nice-to-have, not a have-to-have.”
Okay, but I should point out that we currently have is someone who apparently does not speak from the heart, he reads carefully scripted words off a teleprompter. The problem with someone like that is obvious, we have two presidents, campaign Obama and President Obama. The two versions do not seem to have met and appear unable to stand up for what they believe in. If he had more experience, if his policy ideals were actually ingrained in him, if his beliefs were genuine and earned, this wouldn’t be happening.
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madamab says:
Sorry, folks. I don’t mean to be fighting with you all the time, but facts are facts. Sarah Palin’s base is hard, hard right. All of her backers in the Party are conservative wingnuts. Dick Armey? Michelle Malkin? Come on. These are the anti-moderates. They just got a moderate Republican woman, whom I would have voted for if I had the chance, kicked off the ballot in NY-23 in favor of an anti-abortion, hard right Conservative. Dede Scozzafava was a great candidate who could have won. Now, they’re stuck with a Democrat in that position.
And grassroots-wise, just go to SarahPAC, if you dare. Tell me that’s not Freeperville.
The ONLY reason she appointed that pro-choice Supreme Court judge is that she was forced to do so. She is radically wrong on abortion. If she had her druthers, Roe v. Wade would be overturned and the states would decide on reproductive rights, which would give a win to the far more organized anti-choice forces in most states. I know that some people don’t think that would be a bad thing, but I do.
I do apologize for misspeaking about Palin’s experience. 2 1/2 years as governor! That’s awesome. Sign me up. Because you know that having an inexperienced person as President always works out so well! Look at Dubya! And Obama! Aren’t they doing great?! Clinton, OTOH, had multiple terms as Arkansas Governor before becoming President. It served him very well. Plus, he was a really woman-friendly President, which is often ignored when the “Left” excoriates his Presidency as being too “centrist.”
I do agree with Violet when she said this:
However, I would say that simply having A Woman in that slot rather than A Man is, by itself, a good thing. Because we need more women, we need to break the glass ceiling, we need to get past that barrier. So if the next president is going to be an awful Republican, it’s better for it to be an awful Republican woman than an awful Republican man. Even though she as an individual wouldn’t be any better. See what I mean?
Yes, I do. But I sure wish that we had better choices. And of course, if she doesn’t run for President, all this is moot.
Yttik, speaking from the heart does not a policy wonk make. Being a policy wonk is a rare and wonderful gift that very few people have. Your IQ has to be off the charts and you have to have the type of intelligence that is able to take complex ideas and distill them down to their simplest, clearest points. Both Clintons have this ability; Hillary, more than Bill, I think.
There is no denying that Sarah Palin has amazing charisma and a great way with a sound bite. That is also a great gift. But she has never demonstrated the slightest ability to be a policy wonk. That is not her strength. It’s Hillary’s.
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myiq2xu says:
Rumproast - where men are men and so are the women.
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Violet says:
No, lambert, hence the “almost.”
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lambert strether says:
#32 yttik writes:
Okay, but I should point out that we currently have is someone who apparently does not speak from the heart…
And so? IIRC, George Bush spoke from the heart on any number of occasions, and didn’t use a teleprompter.
Give me a hypocrite who, for the crassest of political reasons, benefits the rest of us in material ways through policy, and I’ll choose them over somebody who speaks from the heart and has bad policy any day of the week. (No, that doesn’t happen very often, but that’s because representative government is broken.)
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lambert strether says:
#36, Violet, sure, but I’m puzzled on why you don’t mention Obama, whose “rock star” status was pretty clear?
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Violet says:
And grassroots-wise, just go to SarahPAC, if you dare.
Where exactly do you mean? I went to SarahPAC, but it seems to be just a static website to accept donations, etc. Is there a forum somewhere?
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Violet says:
#36, Violet, sure, but I’m puzzled on why you don’t mention Obama, whose “rock star” status was pretty clear?
Cause it didn’t fit in the sentence. “almost unparalleled” did the job. Could have said “except for Obama, and JFK after a certain point, and RFK…”
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Violet says:
Also, I’m not entirely comfortable comparing Palin to Obama. He was running for president, and his “grassroots” appeal was actually a highly-manufactured media blitz that cost millions. Palin appears to be doing all this from her house. And she’s not yet definitely running for anything.
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yttik says:
Palin really is a policy wonk. Anyone who does not believe that is not looking at her time on the city council, as mayor, as a member of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, and as governor. She earned herself an 88% approval rating. She didn’t do it by hosting tea parties and by failing to deliver results. You can believe Palin has the wrong policy approach, but I don’t think you can say she doesn’t understand policy. She put several of her policies in place in Alaska and saw the results.
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lambert strether says:
#41 [applause]
“A highly-manufactured media blitz” — exactly; that will often create a rock star, assuming a baseline level of competence/charisma on the part of the product (a baseline which we see, from Obama’s case, need not be too high).
Though it’s not clear to me that Palin would have rejected the millions had they been offered; that they were not was more a function of finance removing its backing from the Republicans and giving the Democrats the mandate to “Do Bush Right.” Her millions may yet arrive!
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Violet says:
yttik, that’s not being a policy wonk. A policy wonk is somebody like Clinton, who is so nitty-gritty she could draft the legislation herself. Most politicians are not wonks. You can be effective and understand how your policies work without being an actual wonk.
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soopermouse says:
I think that she is being pushed to the right. If she has political aspirations, which she does, then it is in her interest to follow the beliefs of her base, whichin my opinion are farther right than the one she demonstrated as elected official.
And why would she wnat to stay within a moderate frame? Lets be honest, she has nothign to gain from esposing what i believe are her moderate views. The Democrats would demonize her none the less, and her own base would be disatisfied. So t makes sense for her to move to the right.
I guess there is a lesson in there somewhere. -
gxm17 says:
Violet @ 41. Exactly right. Palin was a sensation from the moment she hit the national stage unlike Obama. Further, Obama’s appeal IMO doesn’t actually come from the man, it comes from what his fans want to see in the man. Palin’s appeal comes from Palin. It’s genuine, not manufactured or projected.
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Jeff says:
Are we doomed to products of projection from both sides, or can we even recognize a Kool-aid immune leader anymore?
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yttik says:
Slate has an example of the double standard at play. Somebody posted a quote and people attacked it as an example of bad writing and the author’s stupidity, thinking it was from Palin’s book. It was actually from Dreams From My Father.
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lambert strether says:
#46 > genuine, not manufactured or projected.
Oh? This is politics. I’d argue that all three are likely to be going on at once; it’s a question of the balance between them. Moreover, any persona can blend, over time, with the person.
Once again, I insist on the irrelevance, indeed, the danger of making perceived “from the heart,” “sincerity,” “genuine”* and so forth the test of the value of any politician or candidate. These are all nice-to-haves, not have-to-haves. Moreover, they’re almost impossible to discern in our celebrity- and spectacle-driven culture. (Hillary Clinton did her best, grittiest work when she was driven from the media stage in 2008.) And plenty of downright evil politicians were lauded for their sincerity, genuineness, and so forth. What matters most is outcomes.*
NOTE * I’d distinguish all these “ethos”-related values from the value of telling the truth. It’s entirely possible for a politician, indeed anyone, to speak the truth, yet not “from the heart.”
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cwaltz says:
I don’t think I have enough information at this point to determine if she is or isn’t a policy wonk. I’m definitely not going to knock her ability to be one though when she managed to go from PTA mom to mayor to governor. I don’t think that she would have managed to do so if she were incapable. I’d love to see that coffee summit if for no other reason than to see them debate their positions. I also suspect there would be common ground for these women. Both of them seem to be very passionate about children(I could just as easily have seen Hillary stumping for an Elizabeth Cady Stanton Pregnant and Parenting Act as Sarah Palin) and both of them seem to be married to men who aren’t intimidated by a woman with brains.
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cwaltz says:
soopermouse
This is a woman who basically went after her own party on corruption so I am not entirely certain that she would tack right for the sake of political expediency once she attained office. I think alot of how she governed would be determined by who she had to work with in Congress.
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gxm17 says:
Sarah Palin is a natural, meaning she has natural charisma. From the moment she hit the national stage, she was a sensation. I would liken her to Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton. Obama has always reminded me of a cross between Nixon and Bush. His charisma is more practiced. To the best of my knowledge, Palin does not change her accent to suit her crowd. She doesn’t have to.
I won’t have a horse in the race in 2012. I seriously doubt I ever will. I’m simply pointing out why Palin’s appeal should not be compared to Obama’s and why it’s foolish to underestimate her natural talents.
The interesting thing is that with the RNC primary rules, it’s my understanding (though I could be wrong) that it would be harder to rig the nomination. I really don’t think the powers that be want Sarah in the race, and I wonder if we’re going to see some changes in those rules in the near future.
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madamab says:
@50 - Cwaltz, if you’re a policy wonk, it’s obvious in the way you debate.
Palin is a very good debater, but that’s because she sticks to her talking points and projects a lot of confidence.
Hillary is a great debater because she doesn’t have to stick to talking points. She can give you five bullet points on every single subject you bring up, and make YOU understand it.
Palin does not have that ability. To argue that she does really seems a bit over the top.
Violet, SarahPAC has a forum. You just have to sign up for it.
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gxm17 says:
madamab, but hey, let’s be fair, very few people have that ability. HRC is truly one of a kind. So is Palin. They each have their own admirable and impressive talents.
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Sameol says:
“might I suggest Elizabeth Warren?”
Elizabeth Warren would make a fabulous President, but barring a miracle her chances of being nominated are roughly 10 billion to one. It seems like the only realistic options for anyone who’d like to see a female President before she dies are 1) hope Palin runs in ‘12 and wins 2) hope Clinton runs in ‘16 and wins 3) resign ourselves to the fact that it isn’t going to happen and hope that the endgame to the misogynist impulse that seems to be driving political life doesn’t resemble The Handmaid’s Tale and maybe 4) watch as a couple more women run over the next several decades, watch as they finish dead last, declare moral victory if they exceed expectations and finish second to last, hope that the endgame to the misogynist impulse that seems to be driving political life doesn’t end up resembling The Handmaid’s Tale.
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cwaltz says:
meh
The way debates are these days I am not so certain( Do you prefer diamonds or pearls? Have you seen a UFO? They are so staged and so set up for 30 second sound bites rather than actual policy answers). Frankly, they seem alot like pagaentry questions and we know Sarah did just fine on that front.
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madamab says:
LOL, gxm17 - I already said that @34! :-)
Yttik, speaking from the heart does not a policy wonk make. Being a policy wonk is a rare and wonderful gift that very few people have. Your IQ has to be off the charts and you have to have the type of intelligence that is able to take complex ideas and distill them down to their simplest, clearest points. Both Clintons have this ability; Hillary, more than Bill, I think.
There is no denying that Sarah Palin has amazing charisma and a great way with a sound bite. That is also a great gift. But she has never demonstrated the slightest ability to be a policy wonk. That is not her strength. It’s Hillary’s.
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gxm17 says:
Oh dear. There I go channeling you again, madamab! If only I could do it at will. :D
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AmericanMuser says:
America’s elite and Palin-haters everywhere should not be so quick to dismiss or disregard the future of Sarah Palin. No other national political figure so completely fills Middle America’s vacuum of frustration and hate for the Left and Right as Sarah Palin.
Middle America has been abandoned by the Left and Right, who have saddled it with a $700 billion taxpayer bailout, an unnecessary and costly war, a soaring deficit, and an overall neglect of the pocketbook issues that impact Middle America every day. Where are job creation, quality public education, affordable healthcare, and fiscal responsibility, to name a few?
Middle America is mad as hell at the Left and Right and they just might be willing to roll the dice on someone like Palin, who lacks an Ivy League education, is a working class hockey-mom with a disabled child, and who has blue-collar roots like many of the folks in Middle America. The status quo on the Left and Right have produced nothing material for Middle America, which may toss conventional wisdom into the toilet and throw the lever for Palin, figuring it has nothing to lose, and it may be right.
The Ivy League educated on the Left and Right have delivered little to nothing for Middle America, perhaps precisely because they are out of touch with the issues that someone like Palin understands personally.
However, to say that Palin is a salmon swimming upstream is an understatement. The results of a CBS News survey released Monday indicate that 66 percent of respondents do not want her to run for the White House in 2012. Seventy percent of respondents to a CNN/Opinion Research poll said she is not qualified to be president.
More difficult for Palin is the fact that the trend is not her friend—public opinion is moving in the wrong direction right now.
In the CBS survey, 43 percent of GOP respondents said Palin would have the ability to be an effective president. Only 11 percent of Democrats and 29 percent of independents agreed.
However, there is an opportunity for Palin among independents, where Palin’s rating is 41 percent favorable, and 48 percent unfavorable, according to Gallup.
These numbers are not great, but there is plenty of time if she can move the needle by appealing to Middle America and independents, which is where elections are won or lost.
Clearly, Palin has put the monkey on her back, especially with her resignation from Alaska’s governorship in July, a self-inflicted wound that will be difficult to explain away. However, don’t put it past Palin to put lipstick on this pig and paint herself as a victim of politically motivated and baseless ethics charges that prevented her from successfully serving the people of Alaska, forcing her to do the noble thing and take the bullet by resigning.
We can say what we want about Palin, but no Republican in recent history has created such frenzied excitement across the country as she has. Just take a look at the fervor she stirs as she wheels across Middle America on her book tour.
Perhaps this is a misreading of the tea leaves, but one could argue that she creates a wee bit more excitement than Mitt Romney or Mike Huckabee, the two Republican front-runners for president in 2012. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed woman just may be queen.
A. Muser
http://americanmuser.wordpress.com
http://twitter.com/AmericanMuser -
madamab says:
Really, people? Really?
Did anyone actually watch any of Hillary’s debates? She gave substantive answers to quite a few policy questions. Sarah Palin did no such thing. She is in the Reagan mode. Wink wink, there you go again, I love America. It’s very effective, but it is not the same thing.
Words mean things, for Goddess’ sake. Palin is not good at everything. And she is NOT HILLARY.
Why is this such a problem for people to admit? What’s the big deal? If you love Palin, then love her for what she is, not what you imagine her to be.
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lambert strether says:
“a natural” — Personally, I prefer those who would represent me to achieve through grit, determination, and a grasp of making and shaping policy. It’s a “faith” vs. “works” thing, I guess. As we learned in 2008.
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Violet says:
What madamaB said. Palin and Hillary are very different people, very different styles of politician.
AmericanMuser, I agree that the context here is one in which the American people are no longer effectively served by either party. Matter of fact, I just put up a post about that. I don’t think Sarah Palin is offering anything that will help, not in real terms. But then, neither is anyone else. Which is why people vote on emotional issues.
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soopermouse says:
Cwaltz- I agree, but I didn’t mean that she would lean rigth after taking office. I meant that she is being forced to lean right now, because although she is a moderate Republican,, there is no incentive for her to lean towards the moderates now. NOW, in order for her to gain anotehr office she needs to follow her base, which incidentally is not towards middle to far right. It is worth noting that this base itse;lf might have been ushed farther to the right by certain events and actions of the elitist left in 2008.
As of now Sarah Palin has to go towards the right because that’s the only place where she is welcome. The question is : is it wise to push her, someone who has proven to be a moderate conservative- towards the far right? I always said that underestimating her was a mistake- people with such amazing natural charisma an ambition have a tendency to go places. History is full of them.
What the PDS brigade doesn’t get is that their hatred for her fuels her myth and appeal for her base.
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yttik says:
“She is in the Reagan mode.”
A man who invented the phrase “Reagan Democrats” and who managed to capture two terms in the white house.
Seriously, people should not underestimate her, unless the goal is to propel her into the white house. -
lambert strether says:
#59 I agree that Palin is the best hope for right wing populism in 2012.
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Violet says:
yttik, I am completely confused by what point you’re trying to make. Yes, we all know that Reagan was one of the most successful politicians of the modern era. And by comparing Palin to Reagan, we are acknowledging that she has that kind of style, charisma, and potential. I don’t think anyone here is underestimating her as a politician.
People were just trying to say to you that Palin is a Reagan-type politician and not a Hillary Clinton-type politician.
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RKMK says:
… My astroturfing radar just pinged. Loudly. (American Muser.)
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Swannie says:
USA President Zodiac Sun Signs:
Aries - 2
Taurus - 4
Gemini - 2
Cancer - 4
Leo - 4
Virgo - 2
Libra - 4
Scorpio - 5
Sagittarius - 3
Capricorn - 4
Aquarius - 5
Pisces - 4Hillary is a Scorpio
Sarah is an AquariusHillary has three planets in Scorpio
Sarah has FIVE planets in AquariusI love Hillary and would vote for her over Sarah but Sarah is a force to be reckoned with ..
I just finished her book …she is already DOING what people are wondering she might do . -
Violet says:
ASTROLOGY????
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cwaltz says:
I don’t know enough about Sarah Palin to dismiss her as someone who would or could be Clinton’s peer and no one here has given me a compelling reason to doubt that position. She has oodles of charisma, a compelling history and an attractive record while in office and that’s all I can figure at this point.
American muser,
If she wants to attract independant voters she is going about it the wrong way. I found her position on government death panels intellectually dishonest and less then compelling in light of the fact that thousands die annually because the private death panels determine they will not cover people with conditions that might eat into their profit. I can disagree with a person if I think that they are being genuine and her hyperbole on the issue struck me as very political.
I think she is going for the far right and hoping to harness their anger myself. She would need to win a primary before she could win the general and I think that is what she is aiming for.
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Swannie says:
There have been five Scorpio (Oct. 23-Nov. 21) presidents:
John Adams
James Garfield
Warren G. Harding
James K. Polk
Theodore RooseveltAnd there have been five Aquarius (Jan. 20 to Feb. 18) presidents:
William H. Harrison
Abraham Lincoln
William McKinley
Ronald Reagan
Franklin D. RooseveltAquarians are known for their stubborn independence and altruistic humanitarian outlook , but one thing that people do not mention so often about them, is that they are often ahead of their time …about 20 or more years ahead of their time …
Scorpios are also stubborn ( both are “fixed signs” ) but mot as gregarious or forthcoming as Aquarians , and they can be very reticent, reserved and even enigmatic .
but if Astrology offends you I wont mention it anymore
it is my “hobby”
So Sarah needs a makeover.. because she is the equivalent of a white woman who married an African American man 40 years ago …and is also obviously committing the sin of going forward on her own initiative, and not following proscribed patriarchal formulas for women..and so incurs the wrath and engenders the fears .
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Patti says:
Yes, why do people keep comparing Hillary and Palin? Is that fair and does it matter? Does every woman have to live up to Hillary now? Hillary has 15 years on Palin and obviously more and different experiences and they’re from different parties. When hell freezes over and they’re running against eachother then a discussion of their qualifications would be in order.
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Northwest rain says:
Palin has a lot of common sense. This seems lacking in a whole lot of politicians.
I think that Palin learned a whole lot about “handlers” and such during last years campaign.
We will continue to see the radical left’s hysterical reaction to even the mention of Palin’s name.
Palin is from the west coast and that is how we talk in the far west — so when people insult Palin’s accent — they are attacking several million of us.
Palin should scare the heck out of the boyz — she is what they can never be.
This is class warfare — and rural against urban. My roots are very similar to Palin’s — my ancestors migrated west and my father and his mother were born in Idaho. I know that history and I’ve studied my genealogy.
The east coast gang of political hacks really do not understand those of us who live way out west. We focus on the weather to an extent that the east coast folks simply do not understand. Our weather comes directly from the Pacific Ocean — that wildness really does influence our lives.
Clinton traveled through out America — and she saw the west and understands more than most east coast politicians about the forces of Nature that tend to shape who we are.
Now the couple who really were a Pygmalion project were the Obamas. Both appear to have had plastic surgery (according to Docs in that business). Many people believe that the 0bamas have been groomed and molded to become the Illusion of the perfect couple/political candidate. As others have said — BRAND 0bama.
Palin is an authentic self made person (as much as humans can be themselves and not pure products of our culture). If she were male this would be a whole different discussion.
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Briar says:
I had a moment of insight yesterday when I was trying to get to the bottom of a Democrat voting friend’s attitude to Palin. She loathes her. She gives her the creeps. She thinks she is insincere. She’s like a reality show woman. That last one hit the buzzer for me, because that I think identifies the primary mechanism by which Palin has been trashed, as a full of herself woman and as a working class loudmouth. It isn’t just the things said, repeatedly no matter how often debunked, about her. It is the way they are said. She is framed like a political octamum, using the cliches and images and stereotypes of reality TV. That’s part, at least, of the answer to the way that feminists and liberals are vicerally repelled by her.
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Swannie says:
No matter what anyone says, or does … HISTORY is now made and Sarah Palin is still only the second woman in the history of the country of the United States of America to have ever run for the second highest office in a presidential race .
100 years from now her name will be in the books . And some people want her to go crawl away somewhere? I hope that does not happen , for the sake of history and women .
The abuse will be in the books too , hopefully as history as well… -
sam says:
“HISTORY is now made”
A humbling perspective.
History has begun writing the legacy of the late 20th century third wave feminist movement, and it is not flattering to the empower-happy capitalists who say prostitution is a net positive for womenkind and conservative women are a net negative for womenkind.
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teresainpa says:
The ONLY reason she appointed that pro-choice Supreme Court judge is that she was forced to do so. She is radically wrong on abortion. If she had her druthers, Roe v. Wade would be overturned and the states would decide on reproductive rights, which would give a win to the far more organized anti-choice forces in most states. I know that some people don’t think that would be a bad thing, but I do.
This is not true. She did not have to appoint that judge, it is tradition not law. In addition you do not know how she feels about Roe V Wade. Unless you have a quote. Please do not be like the rest of the right wing and left wing haters who just make shit up to try and sway people’s opinion. That is what Obama did to Hillary and what everyone is doing to Palin right now and it makes some of us feminists very angry.
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tinfoil hattie says:
And to even suggest that Palin can stand up to Hillary in terms of policy wonkiness? Hilarious. Just, utterly hilarious.
To be fair, NOBODY can out-wonk Hillary Clinton. And yes, Patti, Hillary Clinton should be the standard … but for ALL presidential candidates.
Yes, I want the world. Why the hell not?
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Aspen says:
Northwest rain,
I thought Palin’s accent was supposed to be the Minnesota accent. (For those who don’t know this accent, it’s parodied in the movie Fargo).
This article explains the history. Supposedly a group of Minnesotans moved to that area of AK in the early 1900s, and brought the accent and dialect with them.
I don’t know if it’s true, but her u-betchas remind me of the trademark MN yah, you betcha. -
Joan says:
She’s from Idaho and moved to Alaska as an adult, Aspen. “Fargo” was set in North Dakota so maybe there are speech similarities in that whole region?
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alwaysfiredup says:
Palin isn’t Hillary. Won’t ever be Hillary. But unless something really, really odd happens, Hillary will not be running for president in 2012. Palin is much more likely to run. It does no good to complain that a candidate is less worthy than someone not on the ballot because only someone on the ballot is going to get elected.
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Aspen says:
Joan, that’s interesting. Because I think you are right, that the dialect or accent that someone grows up in should be more prevalent than those one is exposed to in adulthood.
The wiki has an interesting page on American English regional dialects. The “north central” dialect is a bit how I hear Palin’s. But then, I admit that hers has a bit of differences.
link to wiki page section on north central US dialect
