Sometimes it’s good to pause and remind ourselves that the wingnuts really are fucking batshit insane (open thread)
I dedicate this post to anyone who might have forgotten that, even for an instant.
I checked Memeorandum this evening, as I am wont to do when some big story is cooking and I need to have my finger on the pulse of the intelligentsia. Or when my ramen noodles are cooking and I’m just trying to kill time.
At any rate, the biggest story today is the shocking tragedy at Fort Hood. At least, I thought it was a tragedy. Little did I realize that it was, in fact, part of the global jihadist conspiracy to destroy western civilization.
Second-from-the-top news item in Memorandum, which I will not link to because of the germs:
Pamela Geller / Atlas Shrugs: MUSLIM TERROR ATTACK: ‘TWELVE shot dead’
Really? A Muslim terror attack? Because the news says nobody knows the motive yet. I thought the guy was an Army shrink, a Major, and nobody’s sure…oh hang on, here’s another one:
Right Klik: More Islamic Terrorism? — It’s too early to draw conclusions …
Too early to draw conclusions, but apparently not too early to put it in your headline, right? Fucktwit.
But that’s not the only big wingnut story bubbling on Memeorandum. There was also some kind of tea party protest today against health care reform. I love these people. “Keep your hands off my health care! I WANT to die uninsured and untreated, goddamnit!”
According to ThinkProgress, one of the protesters carried a sign reading, “National Socialist Health Care: Dachau, Germany – 1945.” Here’s the picture:
Protest sign at November 5 rally: 'National Socialist Health Care: Dachau, Germany – 1945.'
Okay, well then. Nothing like a subtle, substantive critique to advance the discussion.
Kind of like this headline from another site I don’t want to link to but will, because it’s the goddamn House Republican Leader’s blog and I want you to see it:
GOP Leader Blog: Speaker Pelosi’s Government-Run Health Plan Will Require a Monthly Abortion Premium
People of the world, I say this as someone who has experienced first hand the perfidy of the Obama Democrats. I am well aware that the old donkey is full of shit. I personally wish it would fall over and die so we could put Kermit the Frog in its place. Everything I said last year came true, about Obama and the party becoming GOP-lite. And I understand how some people might find voting for a non-insane Republican a good idea in certain races.
But people: never, ever close your eyes to how much craziness is on the right. Just don’t do it.
Consider this an open thread.
64 Responses to “Sometimes it’s good to pause and remind ourselves that the wingnuts really are fucking batshit insane (open thread)”
-
bygones says:
First they reported he was dead, now they are reporting he is alive. How does this stuff get so mixed up that you cannot trust any reporting?
November 5th, 2009 at 9:26 pm EST -
Violet says:
Okay, the most recent thing I’m seeing now is that the shooter is alive:
-
Maggie says:
This has been a super shitty day, I have family in Killeen, have been worried all afternoon, some are civilians that work on the base (some used to be stationed there), all is cleared now for me and mine. On top of that a friend was killed in a terrible car accident this morning. The last fucking thing I need to hear on facebook and the radio (and now reminded here (I know you are just observing and are exasperated as well)) is goobers calling in/posting accusations of sleeper cells and conspiracies. What the hell kind of websites are you looking at? But yeah thanks for the warning on that one….I wont be digging into additional information for the rest of the evening and just try to rest soundly knowing my family is ok.
To all that are or have family in Ft. Hood, I pray that you and your loved ones are ok, and my heart aches for you as well…I know its sickening -
okasha skatsi says:
Lots of predictable hate in all the predictable places tonight.
-
madamab says:
Maggie – my best wishes to you. So sorry to hear about what you’ve been through.
And Violet – thank you so much for this post. This is why I cannot stand when people quote these lunatics and act like they’re credible and reasonable, just because they are against Obama.
-
Violet says:
Maggie, I’m extremely sorry about your friend. And about all the stress and fear there.
-
Violet says:
From that ABC link:
In 2009, Hasan completed a fellowship in Disaster and Preventive Psychiatry at the Center for Traumatic Stress.
The irony.
-
RKMK says:
Dude’s alive, and also, dude is also a graduate of … Virginia Tech. I’m sure many a lovely person has graduated from that school, but … the fuck?
-
Maggie says:
We will never be free of fear and stress (guess what, I cant sleep) don’t fight it, but understand it/rationalize before you take actions… but help yourself as best you can, yes this angers me that there are those quick to blame because of the NAME of this Major… I dated an Arabic boy when 911 happened, his family moved him for fear >:( not far (but when gas stations were targeted for perceived Muslims…yeah it was fucking frightening) but talks were happening for moving out of the country with that family, my roommate was Arabic a few years later, getting notices from the apartment complex about suspected terrorists were not pleasant either ARRRGH@!*^#)!@&#…!! DO NOT NEED THIS NOW!
that’s all…. trying to get some sleep now…pffft who am I kidding….
-
Violet says:
Yeah, I’ve got relatives (Iranian-American) who refuse to fly because they’ll get hassled.
-
Alison says:
As a married-into-a-Jewish-family sort of woman, I’m just so $%# tired of everyone using images of the Holocaust for their god-forsaken cause. I don’t care what the cause is – animal rights, anti-war, anti-taxes, just fucking stop it.
-
Briar says:
So somebody (not the first by any means – lots of murders are committed by vets, though not all have muslim names) who works at the heart of a state organisation dedicated to imposing that state’s will by the use of brute force goes nuts and kills a lot of people. Killing a lot of people is what the army is *for*. An army psychiatrist can’t have any patriotic delusions about what goes on in the killing fields. So why the surprise? The cursed moral and intellectual self contradiction at the heart of these people’s lives is bound to drive some of them mad. It’s the price we pay for state and church legitimised violence. Instead we suppress meaningful moral debate about what it really means to kill other human beings, and glorify slaughter (and the means to kill – that symbol of the power to impose oneself on others, the gun) as noble.
Meanwhile, the roar of racism is growing all over the net. That isn’t surprising either, I fear. Racism – another curse that is always with us, like misogyny. We do hatred and violence so well.
-
bygones says:
Sometimes you wonder if it is even worth getting up in the morning. Another round of some disgruntled moron deciding to kill those around him. Idiots marching on DC carrying signs depicting the Holocaust as a means to oppose healthcare. Young women being raped and tortured. Kids being kidnapped and murdered. More atrocities being reported in Afghanistan. Suicide bombers wreaking havoc in Iran. Lay offs and foreclosings climbing daily. Wall Street raking in the big bucks hand over fist.
Simply demoralizing.
-
angie says:
There is so much b.s. floating around about this tragedy, even in the msm, that I don’t know what is going on. First I read there were 3 shooters, then 2, now I’m reading there was only 1. Everyone is talking about Combat Stress, but ABC is reporting that the Major’s upcoming deployment to Iraq would have been his first deployment (kind of hard to suffer from Combat Stress if you’ve never actually seen combat). I honestly don’t believe we will ever get the “truth” here, so I’m sticking with my usual theory when I hear about one of these crazy tragedies: the guy was nuts to begin with & was waiting for a “reason” to snap. People who are basically sane to begin with don’t go out & open fire into crowds no matter how shitty their lives are or how much stress they are undergoing or how much they really, really don’t want to do the job they signed on to do. I’m sure there was something that triggered this particular lunatic to snap, but you know what? If it hadn’t been what it was today, it would have been something else tomorrow.
In other news (and since this is an open thread) the other lunatic sex-offender in Cleveland is now up to 11 dead bodies. You know, I understand the story is that neighbors thought the smell was coming from the sausage factory (and thank you to tinfoil hattie for pointing that out to me the other day) but still! Didn’t the Cleveland sex-offender have a job? Didn’t he leave his house? Because that smell would have been all over him. {shiver} That story creeps me out on all kinds of levels.
-
Ellie says:
Apparently a female civilian police officer – Kimberly Munley – is the one who shot Hasan and stopped the rampage; and that she’s wounded but in stable condition. She was shot, but managed to shoot him four times.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/fort.....id=9012995
There are horrors and evils and atrocities, but there are heroines (and heroes) too, and things and people worth getting up for in the morning. After everything, reading about this courageous and competent woman was heartening (and it seems like it’s already been confirmed that she’s the one who stopped him).There was also some kind of tea party protest today against health care.
The tea party protests do not seem to be “against health care”. A lot of the protestors have reasonable concerns about the current administration’s ideas of what health care reform would constitute and how such reform is implemented – in an enormous bill that Congress will vote on without reading, that’s not available to the public in advance (oh, those empty promises of “transparency”), a bill that appears to be crafted with various special interest groups in mind, and the fact that this version of health care reform might actually wind up driving up health care costs, make health care less affordable and available, and might not actually do much in terms of covering the millions of uninsured. And Congress doesn’t seem to care one way or another… because look, it won’t affect them; they’re wealthy and politically connected, so they’ll get the best healthcare regardless of whether the newly reformed system fails or not for the unwashed masses.
The Dachau poster I agree is nuts – but it’s also unsurprising that ridiculously stupid posters surface in a protest. I’ve seen stupid/hateful/wacky posters in protests of all political stripes. But a lot of the people who show up to these protests or to townhall meetings have genuine concerns and are not just there to brandish ridiculous signs or express extreme opinions. Though I haven’t attended one of these protests myself, I’ve got friends (2 Republicans and one Democrat) who’ve gone to a local one in the big northeastern city where I live, and they’re by no means ‘wing nuts’ – their reports of other protestors by and large painted a picture of people who are fed up by an irresponsible political class (bipartisan irresponsibility and greed, mind you). What’s also striking is that, at least in the local protests, a lot of the people showing up are not people who are usually politically active or make a point of going and speaking out politically.
-
janicen says:
There is so much b.s. floating around about this tragedy, even in the msm, that I don’t know what is going on.
It’s this kind of thing that makes my antennae twitch. Usually, no matter what the news story, when they don’t have all the facts they tell us that they don’t have all the facts and then have a press conference once the facts are gathered. When different bits of info are released piecemeal, it feels like they are concocting the story as they go along.
-
RKMK says:
A woman saved the day, (natch):
The heroic policewoman who shot an army psychiatrist during a murderous gun rampage at an army base was today named as Sergeant Kimberly Munley.
She had been on routine traffic patrol when Major Nidal Malik Hasan entered a medical centre at Ford Hood, Texas, shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’ (God is greatest) and opened fire.
It took just three minutes for the slightly built mother-of-one to get to the scene, engaging the killer in a gun battle which ended with him being shot four times.
In the course of the cross-fire, Sgt Munley, who has a daughter, was shot in the leg. Hasan had managed to kill 13 and wound 30 others before she got there.
Lt. Gen. Bob Cone described her actions as ‘amazing and aggressive’.
‘She was quite effective, one of our most impressive young policemen,’ he added. ‘She walked up and basically engaged him. I think, certainly, this could’ve been far worse.’
-
RKMK says:
One should note, however, the ironic use of “policemen.”
-
janicen says:
“Policemen” jumped out at me and pissed me off, but I have to say I heart Sgt. Kimberly Munley.
-
Aeryl says:
“People who are basically sane to begin with don’t go out & open fire into crowds no matter how shitty their lives are or how much stress they are undergoing or how much they really, really don’t want to do the job they signed on to do.”
I have to say, I find this to be a rather callous statement. Firstly, as a person who’s been “basically sane” for 27 of my 30 yrs, I’ve been up close and personal with the depths despair and depression can drive an individual to, and secondly, because it’s kind of devoid of facts.
The man was an Army psychiatrist. He worked with veterans who’d served in combat, every day. Being aware that his first deployment was imminent(hell, for all we know yet, he could have been set to deploy with those soldiers), as well as being aware of the horrors the other people he shot at were about to undergo, it’s entirely possible this man reached a breaking point, and acted in an atrocious manner.
His actions aren’t forgivable, but they are understandable, and the only thing exceptional about them are the scope.
-
quixote says:
RKMK: very interesting. It’s the first I’ve heard of it. You’d think it would be front and center on every report about this. You’d think….
-
Violet says:
It took just three minutes for the slightly built mother-of-one to get to the scene
Ever seen a male policeman described this way? “It took just three minutes for the well built father-of-one to get to the scene…”
-
yttik says:
“His actions aren’t forgivable, but they are understandable…”
Well, I’d like to complain about that. The media is tossing around this idea of combat stress, PTSD, maybe he got it from working at Walter Reed and listening to horror stories. Or maybe it was because he was a Muslim.
Or maybe he was just crazy.
Maybe this had nothing to do with religion or war or stress. What is the “understandable” excuse for the guy with 11 women’s bodies buried in his backyard? How about the recent gang rape that people stood around and watched? The shooting happening in FL?
Speaking of which, women right here at home are often subject to some pretty awful atrocities. If we manage to avoid them ourselves, we still hear the stories. When do we all get to claim our pre-emptive combat stress from watching them pull yet another woman’s body out of a dumpster somewhere?
I’m tired of hearing how male violence is the result of the bad economy, the war, combat stress, a tragic childhood…
-
anniethena says:
Seeing as this is an open thread, I’d like to (more formally) introduce myself. I’ve been commenting/registering at “lefty” blogs with this handle for almost 5 years. I’m a Canadian, small ‘l’ liberal, pro-choice feminist, former health-care worker who rooted for Hillary last year. I’ve never liked “long-time reader/first-time poster” introductions and usually just jump right in – perhaps this is perceived as rude especially in established communities like this one, and if so I apologize.(and I should have thanked Dr. Socks for responding to my OT comment about my experience with the Halloween costumes).
Anyhoo, I probably won’t comment much because the community here does such a great job, but I do want you to know that I read the posts and the comments regularly and have been reading you all since last year when I needed to find places that were pro-Hillary.
Please keep up the good work. -
Violet says:
Hi, anniethena! Thank you for saying hello.
-
Violet says:
This is an excellent post:
When Invisible, Addicted and Ill Women Disappear: A Cry for Cleveland
I have been heartsick over this.
-
anniethena says:
Thank you for the welcome Violet, I love your posts.
I read a NYT article about the missing women this morning – disgusting how the police wouldn’t take missing person reports seriously.
After Gruesome Find, Anger at Cleveland PoliceAfter the third police station in a row refused to take a missing-person report about her niece two years ago, Sandy Drain took matters into her own hands.
…snip
“It was pretty obvious the police weren’t going to help us,” said Ms. Drain, 65, who added that the police began seriously investigating the case of her niece, Gloria Walker, only after Ms. Drain’s initial efforts prompted the news media to begin asking questions.
…snip
Community activists added that in recent years they had received dozens of reports from residents in this largely poor and black neighborhood who told of encountering similar frustrations in getting the police to investigate cases of missing adults.“They belittled it and made jokes,” said Barbara Carmichael about her repeated and failed efforts to file a missing-person report about her daughter Tonia, whose body was the first of the 11 found in Mr. Sowell’s house to be identified this week. “They told me to wait a while because she would return once all the drugs were gone.”
-
datechguy says:
Violet I like you I really do but it takes an awful lot of denial to conclude that this fellow wasn’t doing this in sympathy with Jihad.
This isn’t even the first case of a Muslim serviceman killing soldiers in sympathy to our foes. This guy is WAY out there.
And let me defend Pam Geller who has given a lot of attention to “honor killings” particularly in America. She has given personal time to defending and or remembering women whose only crime is refusing to kowtow to a Misogynistic Religion. That is the essence of feminism.
We may disagree on politics and on many social issues but I’d be pleased to meet you and yours and share a lunch, politics would be no big deal. I don’t know how many people on the right you know personally but other than some real idiots (and yes we have them) most would treat you this way.
I will argue against Gay marriage and in favor of Christianity every day and twice on Sunday and then share wine afterwords. In countries where Sharia law exists these people would kill you and be proud about it. It’s horrifying.
To equate a fellow who carries a dumb sign to a fellow that murders a bunch of people just doesn’t work.
My suggestion if the news gets you down… watch the Big Bang Theory. It’s absolutely hilarious. Laughter is the best medicine.
-
okasha skatsi says:
Just out of curiosity, what makes you think a person you want to deprive of equal civil rights–a person you’re happy to keep down as a second- or third-class citizen–would have any interest in “sharing wine” with you?
-
Unree says:
If this is an open thread, I’ll mention the Yahoo news story, high on its list right now on Friday evening: “Suspect in Orlando office shooting had money woes.” He’d been fired, poor dear, and declared bankruptcy. He also had abused his wife back when they were married.
Has the media ever noted the “woes” that induce a woman, reasonably and predictably enough, to kill? Not that I’ve seen. A woman never has a human motive. If she does something harmful, she’s just pure eebil.
Thanks, RKMK, for reporting who stopped the Fort Hood killer. I haven’t seen Sgt. Munley mentioned in most stories.
-
janicen says:
Here’s a little more detailed account of Kimberly Munley’s heroism…
-
angie says:
Yes, Aeryl, I am callous toward people who open fire into crowds & I’m not ashamed of that. The “pre-emptive combat stress” theory is about one of the most far-fetched things I’ve heard & I don’t buy it. The guy was so worried about having to face killing people in Iraq that he killed people in Texas? That is understandable to you? Because that makes absolutely no sense to me. (And, btw,lets not forget, as a doctor this lunatic wasn’t going to see much combat.)
There are many, many people in this world who go through much worse things then having to treat people with combat stress after having medical training to do just that & somehow manage to not go on killing sprees.
-
angie says:
anniethena — thanks for that link. Here is a case of 11 — not 1, 11! — girls missing with a registered sex offender in the vicinity & no one thought to check in on him, or did the police just not care? Sadly it seems from your link they just didn’t care.
-
Violet says:
Violet I like you I really do but it takes an awful lot of denial to conclude that this fellow wasn’t doing this in sympathy with Jihad.
I think it takes an awful lot of bigotry to conclude that someone is engaged in “Muslim terrorism” simply because he is a Muslim. Which is exactly what those wingnut bloggers were doing last night.
How would you have liked it if the George Sodini shooting had been immediately described as “Christian terrorism”? He was a Christian, he shot a bunch of people, so what else could it be, right?
-
Violet says:
The tea party protests do not seem to be “against health care”.
I am sorry; that was a typo. That sentence should have read “health care reform.” I have fixed it in the post.
-
yttik says:
As to batshit insane Republicans on health care, I’m still having some trouble. I’m not sure who is more insane, the progressives supporting the Mitt Romney national health care plan or the Republicans protesting it. I don’t see anything in there about single payer, I see so called liberals privatizing a mandatory government program, something Republicans traditionally endorse.
I’m all for health care for all, but tell me, how do we manage to spend 90 billion dollars trying to cover 46 million people? Shouldn’t we just give those people a million dollars each and save ourselves a few billion?
But hey, I am batshit crazy. I thought we should have just taken the first billion dollars we planned to spend on Iraq, flown over the country, and thrown it out the window. We would have won over hearts and minds, saved money, and prevented a lot of unnecessary bloodshed.
-
Violet says:
I’m not sure who is more insane, the progressives supporting the Mitt Romney national health care plan or the Republicans protesting it. I don’t see anything in there about single payer, I see so called liberals privatizing a mandatory government program, something Republicans traditionally endorse.
Here’s what’s really interesting: there are progressives protesting the health care crap, demonstrating their hearts out for single payer. But you don’t know about it, do you? Where’s the coverage?
It’s a strange state of affairs. To judge by the media, there are only two things going on: the Congressional Democrats/White House trying to pass reform, and the tea partiers/Republicans protesting. Nothing else happening here, nope.
Meanwhile, blogs like Black Agenda Report and Corrente keep covering the single-payer protests — people being arrested, for chrissake — and the national media never mentions it. Ever.
-
Topper Harley says:
@12 Regarding racism, we are, at our most basic, tribal organisms with excellent pattern recognitions skills. These skills are so awesome that we can even find patterns where there are none. Some examples would include seeing the Virgin Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich, “Paul is dead”, and pretty much any gambling “system” ever invented. I’d even go so far as to throw in confirmation bias.
Given that background, racism is inevitable. IMO, the best we can do is recognize when our unconscious racism surfaces and mitigate it.
On the topic of pictures of Dachau, I’d note that “dog bites man” isn’t news, but finding some absolutely batshit insane person who will equate HCR with Dachau is, hence you see images of it. And this applies to all political stripes: The bandanna-wearing window-breakers in Seattle weren’t anything more but a radical fringe of Seattle WTO protests. But bring up Seattle, and that’s the image that the media seared into everyone’s mind.
-
Violet says:
Krugman:
I’m not alone! I’ve been wondering this all year.
The WPA was great. It was a lifesaver in the South during the Depression. My grandfather worked for the CCCs up in North Carolina. The whole region is still benefitting from the dams and parks and public buildings and all kinds of good stuff built then.
-
Branjor says:
I think it takes an awful lot of bigotry to conclude that someone is engaged in “Muslim terrorism” simply because he is a Muslim.
I’m a radical feminist and as much of a leftist as you, but the guy screamed “Allahu Akbar” and then opened fire. You don’t have to be “batshit” or bigoted to figure that his motive was most likely jihad. Sodini might have been Christian, but he wasn’t going around screaming “Jesus is Lord” while shooting his victims.
-
Violet says:
the guy screamed “Allahu Akbar” and then opened fire
Yeah, but that wasn’t known yesterday. The wingnut blogs even said “we don’t know what happened — but look at his name! Gotta be a terrorist!”
As of now it does sound like this guy was wound up in the head in a lot of ways, and religion was part of it. But I’m still not sure we can call it terrorism yet. Terrorism is political. Was this guy political, like Timothy McVeigh? Or was he a nutjob who snapped, like Cho? (Bearing in mind that crazy people’s delusions tend to take the form of whatever is in their life already, such as religion.)
-
yttik says:
I agree with Branjor. There’s a double standard to our thinking. If some batshit crazy Christian terrorist bombed an abortion clinic, people would have no problem complaining that right wing Christianity is evil. In fact I hear a lot about the evils of right wing Christians from people who lean left. And they are correct, there’s some ugly stuff being done. But for some reason there’s an instinctual knee jerk reaction to defend Islam as the religion of peace. Well yes it is, except for the ones who are opening fire on innocent people or stoning women or throwing acid on them. That kind of Islam is pretty damn ugly. Instead of acknowledging that, it seems like people want to portray Muslims as victims of discrimination and bad press. I have never heard anybody say the same about right wing Christians.
-
Violet says:
If some batshit crazy Christian terrorist bombed an abortion clinic, people would have no problem complaining that right wing Christianity is evil.
Sure. But you know what is most salient to me about this guy? That he’s a psychiatrist and an Army major. He’s not Eric Rudolph. He’s not some guy with a history of fringe cult activity or terrorism, as far as we know. He’s an Army officer and a doctor! And he went postal.
I have no brief for Islam, which is a batshit patriarchal religion, like all the other batshit patriarchal religions.
-
Violet says:
And by the way, if it does turn out that this guy is a jihadist who infiltrated the U.S. Army, I’ll be as fascinated as the next person. But since most mass shootings are the result of banal craziness rather than international conspiracy, I’m waiting for more evidence.
-
yttik says:
Violet, unfortunately, I don’t think it matters whether evidence comes to light about him being part of a sleeper cell that infiltrated our military, because what he did was live up to people’s worst fears. He presented himself as if he were on a holy jihad against the US military, specifically as a Muslim. He was for all intents and purposes, a terrorist. I may suspect he was just evil and psychotic, like the guy that buried all those women at his house of the one that shot all those people in FL today, but by his own actions and history he established that he was a Muslim terrorist on a jihad. Now there will be an even greater backlash against Muslims, not because we have failed to speak up for them, but because of the actions of several of them.
-
Violet says:
Now there will be an even greater backlash against Muslims, not because we have failed to speak up for them, but because of the actions of several of them.
This formulation really, really bothers me. The risk here is of bigoted attacks on innocent people simply because of their ethnicity or religion. You really want to say it’s because of the actions of those “bad” Muslims, and not because we failed to speak up enough?
-
octogalore says:
I don’t believe in making assumptions about people based on ethnicity or religion.
I do have concerns about the fact that the Quran is viewed as mandatory, and it appears to condone violence (against women, and generally).
-
yttik says:
Yes I have to say it Violet, because Muslim attacks are happening all over the US. A guy just ran over his daughter, the head of a Muslim TV station decapitated his wife, those were Muslim snipers in DC, it was a Muslim who broke into the Jewish center in Seattle and shot six women.
Bush certainly left us with a lot of fear mongering and hysteria but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a problem.
I don’t want people persecuted for their religious beliefs, but at some point we have to start looking at what is happening. We focus a lot of concern on Muslims being persecuted, but thankfully I haven’t heard of any hate crimes in the US being directed towards them. Harassment at the airport perhaps, but nobody has opened fire on anybody in a mall like another Muslim guy did in Salt Lake city, killing five.
-
Alison says:
Yttik,
I think a Sikh was killed shortly after 9/11 because he was wearing a turban and looked “muslim”. I’m sure there are other hate crimes against muslims and for sure some Americans are horrible xenophobes.
Still, I think one frustration some have with Muslims is that they are not showing enough self-reflection in regard to the crap that is in their very patriarchal religion/ culture. In the US we have gotten used to liberal secular christians as well as many christian- christians evaluating and re-evaluating what is totally fucked up about this religious heritage. But Muslim Americans have not showed the same self-reflection and they really need to.
-
Kookaburra says:
Ever seen a male policeman described this way? “It took just three minutes for the well built father-of-one to get to the scene…”
Hmmm, now it makes me wonder what will be written if I ever do something heroic in my line of work. I’m not married and don’t plan to be, nor do I desire children. So that’s the majority of how they would describe a woman right out.
“The funny-looking brown-haired cat-owner…”
-
Violet says:
Yes I have to say it Violet, because Muslim attacks are happening all over the US. A guy just ran over his daughter, the head of a Muslim TV station decapitated his wife, those were Muslim snipers in DC, it was a Muslim who broke into the Jewish center in Seattle and shot six women.
The U.S. is an increasingly diverse society. The more Muslims there are in the population, the more we will see crimes committed by Muslims. This doesn’t make a pattern. It just means there are Muslims in the population.
A handful of crimes by Muslim Americans, and we need to “start looking at what is happening”? I’m skeptical. I could easily choose a handful of crimes committed by Jews or Catholics or Baptists or Mexicans or Pakistanis, and suggest that a pattern exists.
Bigotry is always dangerous. Always. And the bad actions of a few (Muslims? Japanese in WWII? Germans in WWI? Jews anytime over the past 2000 years?) can never be excused as the “cause” for community persecution.
I have brown-skinned Muslim relatives. They’re Americans and they’re not doing a damn thing wrong. Yet I live in fear that some cracker is going to go off at the sight of my brown-skinned cousin cause, you know, them Muslims are so dangerous…
-
fortherecord says:
The shooter was a man, a psychiatrist, and a soldier. Despite the violence that everyone knows these three categories of people are capable of and historically have committed, there is no perjorative term, like “terrorist,” that we commonly attach to describe the violent actions of men, psychiatrists, or soldiers. Even when they specifically let us know that they are choosing to commit an act of violence because they are men or because they are soldiers.
The word jihad is not synonymous with terrorism, and jihadist is not synonymous with terrorist.
Jihad is not synonymous with violence.
Jihad = terror and jihad = violence and violence = terror are lazy bits of shorthand that are popular and false. The words have different meanings and ought to be used when they’re specifically warranted.
IF the shooter WERE spurred to his act of violence specifically for the purpose of furthering (his particular vision of) jihad, this would still not necessarily be terrorism.
Traditionally, an attack on a military installation during a war is not considered terrorism.
One problem with conducting a War on Terror is that anyone who fights the US anywhere, even in self-defense, becomes a terrorist.
One problem with conducting a War on Muslim Extremism is that an act of random violence committed by a Muslim extremist becomes an act of war.
Therefore, presenting oneself as on a holy jihad against the military specifically as a Muslim – this is not necessarily a problem.
The horrible violence he committed is the problem. The reasons for that violence are interesting, and should be of concern. But these are not simply religious questions. There are also questions of second-hand trauma. There are questions of male entitlement and pride — when he learned he would be deployed and couldn’t honorably get out of it, why didn’t he choose a dishonorable discharge over killing his coworkers?
yttik:
We focus a lot of concern on Muslims being persecuted, but thankfully I haven’t heard of any hate crimes in the US being directed towards them.I wouldn’t be so thankful about what you’re not hearing, if I were you. The Attorney General specifically noted that crimes against Muslims have risen dramatically since 9/11.
Further, Hasan himself may have been harassed for being a Muslim by his fellow soldiers, according to his family.
-
Miranda says:
Most violent crimes, particularly against women, are committed by males of all races, ethnicities, etc. I think the real common denominator is obvious. As I said in the post on the CA gang rape victim, by all means, lets round the real culprits up!
That said, the inaccuracy of the reporting surrounding the shooting is amazing. When I first heard the story, there were three gunmen, and yes, I wondered if this was the opening of some sort of joint attack, rather like 9/11. Then there was 1 dead gunman and 2 suspects. Now, there’s 1 alive gunman and no one else.
-
Alison says:
Miranda said:
Most violent crimes, particularly against women, are committed by males of all races, ethnicities, etc.
Violet said:
The U.S. is an increasingly diverse society. The more Muslims there are in the population, the more we will see crimes committed by Muslims. This doesn’t make a pattern. It just means there are Muslims in the population
Bigotry is always dangerous. Always.
I have to disagree and say that noticing cultural patterns and statistics within a culture is not always bigotry. If you make it a blanket statement, sure. But I don’t think questioning whether culture impacts violence toward women is bigoted!
We know that in the African American population DV is 30 percent higher and we know that many middle eastern, african and some Asian muslim countries are extremely patriarchal and as a result, very violent. So why is it a stretch to question whether a person’s patriarchal home country has influence on their behavior?
Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn, in their book Half the Sky brings up this topic in one of his chapters: Is Islam Mysoginistic?
A politically incorrect point must be noted here. Of the countries where women are held back and subjected to systematic abuses such as honor killings and genital cutting, a very large proprtion are predominantly Muslim.
In this chapter they also discuss the predominance of violence due to the high percentage of men in the 15 – 25 age range.
Young bulges may well be particularly destabilizing in conservative Muslim countries because women are largely passive and silent – amplifying the impact of young men. Moreover, in other parts of the world, young men aged fifteen through twenty-four spend many of their waking moments chasing young women. In contrast, in conservative Muslim countires, some young men make war, not love.
In strict Muslin countries such as Afghanistan, many young men have little hope of ever finding a partner. Typically in such nations there are at least 3 percent more males than females, partly because females don’t receive the same medical car as males. Also, polygamy means the wealthiest men take tow or three wives, leaving even fewer women available for the poor. The inability of a young man to settle down in a family may increase the likelihood of his drifting toward violence.
Young men in such countries grow up in an all-male environment, in a testosterone-saturated world that has the ethos of a high school boy’s locker room. Organizations made up disproportionately of young men – whether they be gangs or boys’ schools or prisons or military units – are often particularly violent. We suspect that the same can be true of entire countries.
I know we are comfortable in stating that frats create a fab environment for our boys to act out as rapists, we had no problem in stating that the Duke boys were definitely rapists before gathering all the evidence… Why? Because frats have a culture of rape and that’s something people need to talk about. I know we thought Mary Winkler’s husband was probably a tyrant – why? Because many fundamentalist Christians support wife abuse. And I think we also need to be able to talk about the culture of violence in many Islamic countries that may contribute to the violence of some Muslim Americans.
What about that 8 year old girl, I think from the Sudan, who was recently raped by a gang of 8 year old boys, also from the Sudan? And then the parents didn’t want anything to do with the girl after the rape, because she had been shamed. Can’t talk about that in terms of culture ’cause I’d be a bigot, right?
-
Swannie says:
GODDESS BLESS YOU FOR MENTIONING HALF THE SKY … that should be required reading before commenting on this topic !!!IT SHOULD BE required reading for any discussion regarding women as it now the definitive work !!
-
yttik says:
Here’s a good article:
Fort Hood: What the right and the left have gotten wrong about Hasan
-
Swannie says:
What exactly is a “cracker” ?? is that a cultural stereotype ??
-
Violet says:
I have to disagree and say that noticing cultural patterns and statistics within a culture is not always bigotry.
Of course not. And in fact, that’s one of my recurring themes. For example, here:
http://www.reclusiveleftist.co.....nst-women/
But there is a difference between analyzing the patriarchal and violent mores in a given cultural milieu, and fanning the flames of hysterical bigotry.
The wingnut coverage of the Fort Hood shooting is about as far from nuanced, sophisticated social analysis as you can get. OH MY GOD THE MUSLIMS ARE GONNA GET US ALL THE ONE NEXT TO YOU COULD BE A TERRORIST RUUUUUUNNNNNNNN!!!!
-
Swannie says:
Half the Sky Stories
Spread the word
Get involved
An unblinking look at one of the seminal moral challenges of our time. This stirring book is at once a savage indictment of gender inequality in the developing world and an inspiring testament to these…– Khaled Hosseini, author, The Kite RunnerThe stories that Kristof and WuDunn share are as powerful as they are heartbreaking. Their insight into gender issues and the role of women in development inspires hope, optimism, and most importantly,…– Melinda Gates
Half the Sky is a passionate and persuasive plea to all of us to rise up and say ‘No more!’ to the 17th-century abuses to girls and women in the 21st-century world. This is a book that will pierce…– Tom Brokaw
If you have always wondered whether you can change the world, read this book. Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn have written a brilliant call to arms that describes one of the transcendent injustices…– Fareed Zakaria, author, The Post-American World
It’s impossible to exaggerate the importance of this book about one of the most serious problems of our time: the worldwide abuse and exploitation of women. In addition to describing the injustices,…– Anne Rice
I think it’s impossible to stand by and do nothing after reading Half the Sky. It does what we need most, it bears witness to the sheer cruelty that mankind can do to mankind.– George Clooney
I read Half the Sky in one sitting, staying up until 3 a.m. to do so. It is brilliant and inspirational, and I want to shout about it from the rooftops and mountains. It vividly illustrates how women have…– Greg Mortenson, author, Three Cups of Tea
Women facing poverty, oppression, and violence are usually viewed as victims. Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn’s Half the Sky shows that unimaginable challenges are often met with breathtaking bravery.…– Angelina Jolie
Keep reading…
Women aren’t the problem, they’re the solution — along with men.The best way to fight poverty and extremism is to educate and empower women and girls.Half the Sky lays out an agenda for the world’s women and three major abuses: sex trafficking and forced prostitution; gender-based violence including honor killings and mass rape; maternal mortality, which needlessly claims one woman a minute. We know there are many worthy causes competing for attention in the world. We focus on this one because this kind of oppression feels transcendent – and so does the opportunity. Outsiders can truly make a difference.So let us be clear up front: We hope to recruit you to join an incipient movement to emancipate women and fight global poverty by unlocking women’s power as economic catalysts. It is a process that transforms bubbly teenage girls from brothel slaves into successful businesswomen. You can help accelerate change if you’ll just open your heart and join in.
Home – Stories – Spread the word – Get involved – Resources ©2009 Half The Sky
http://www.halftheskymovement.org/ -
Aspen says:
I saw the article when it was featured in the NYT, but I didn’t read the book. I was very glad to see these issues of the abuse of women get attention. In this chapter of the book:
Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn, in their book Half the Sky brings up this topic in one of his chapters: Is Islam Mysoginistic?
A politically incorrect point must be noted here. Of the countries where women are held back and subjected to systematic abuses such as honor killings and genital cutting, a very large proprtion are predominantly Muslim.
Do they make anything of the correlation between what they call systematic abuses with having more squanderous conditions overall? For example, most of these regions fall at the lower end of the Human Development Index. That correlation seems pretty pertinent to me.
And that is not to say that culture shouldn’t be discussed. Culture is going to be a difficult subject, of course, because of the heavy tendency we as people have for bias. But no, that shouldn’t completely shut down the discussion.
-
Aspen says:
“Squanderous” probably was not the word I was looking for. I meant conditions such as, abject poverty, excessive hardship, and limited to no resources.
-
Alison says:
Aspen,
Yes, they do bring up poverty to some extent. In the chapter on maternal mortality they state reasons for why maternal mortality is so high in some countries. Poverty for sure is one reason but another is “disregard for women”. They write “Poverty is obviously a factor, but high rates of maternal mortality are not inevitable in poor countries.” And then they go on to talk about Sri Lanka who, since 1935 has halved it’s maternal deaths every 6 – 12 years. Because they have a higher regard for women, despite being one of the poorer countries and also a country torn apart by war.
And then they also brings up India and Latin America in terms of the level of oppression for women. They write in the chapter, Is Islam Mysoginistic:
Hinduism has similar problems, not to mention vicious burnings of brides by their new families, but Hindu women in India are more autonomous and more likely to be educated than their Muslim women neighbors. To look at one broad gauge of well-being, of 128 countries rated by the World Economic Forum according to the status of women, 10 of the bottom 12 were majority Muslim. Yemen was in last place.
We tend to think of Latin America, with its legacy of machismo, as a man’s world. But Mexico and Latin countries actually do pretty well at educating girls and keeping them alive. Most Latin nations have populations that are majority female. Maternity hospitals even in poor neighborhoods of South American cities such as Bogota and Quito provide free prenatal care and delivery, because saving women’s lives is considered by society to be a priority.
This is really an incredible book, it has changed my world perception on so many levels.
-
madamab says:
Because of the recommendations at this site, I will now read “Half the Sky.” Thanks to everyone who mentioned it. I have been waiting and waiting to read something that presents nuance on the topic of women’s oppression.
I tend to feel that fundamentalism, not any particular religion, is the real problem. Scratch a fundamentalist of any religion and you’ll find someone who believes fervently in the evil of teh wimminz.
-
monchichipox says:
“. Yet I live in fear that some cracker is going to go off at the sight of my brown-skinned cousin cause, you know, them Muslims are so dangerous…”
Shame on you(only the finger wagging kind though). Are you sure you didn’t mean sometimes instead of always?
