It’s the system, stupid

Wednesday, December 10th, 2008 · 77 Comments »

James Carville is upset with The New Agenda.

“This New Agenda crowd need to get a new agenda, a new agenda of women that are losing their jobs, a new agenda of battered women and women that are victims of sex discrimination and not this kind of silliness,” he says.

This kind of silliness, of course, refers to Jon Favreau’s groping of a cardboard Hillary Clinton while his buddy forces a beer to her lips. Gee, what could that possibly have to do with discrimination against women and sexual violence?

Here’s a tip, Mr. Carville (and anyone else who can’t make the connection): sexism is a system. Women’s second-class status in society is a 24/7 deal, a full-time gig, an all-pervasive set of mores and assumptions. It’s interwoven into the very fabric of society, and every thread contributes to the pattern. It starts in the cradle and follows us to the grave; it harasses us at work and diminishes us at home. Mr. Carville wants The New Agenda to focus on sex-based discrimination — but why does this discrimination exist? He wants The New Agenda to worry about gendered violence — but why is gendered violence endemic?

Sexism is a deeply learned behavior with a thousand manifestations. You can’t quarantine the big pieces of it — rape, legal discrimination — as if they exist in a vacuum apart from the rest of society’s values. From frat boy joke to date rape, from gangsta rap to domestic violence, from pink housework toys at Wal-Mart to the boss who won’t promote a woman into top management, from “Math is hard” Barbie to the physics lab where men harass their female colleagues relentlessly, from Girls Gone Wild videos to the jury that acquits a rapist because the victim was wearing a short skirt — it’s a system. A giant, all-encompassing, self-reinforcing system.

No one thinks that Jon Favreau is personally responsible for crimes against women. What we think — what we know — is that his frat-boy grope is one lurid thread in a larger pattern. It’s symptomatic of a culture in which women are routinely sexualized, diminished, and harassed; a culture in which violence against women is normalized as mainstream fun; a culture in which powerful, accomplished women are ridiculed as b**ches and c**ts who just need a good f***ing.

Back in the early 1980s, I worked in an office where the male doyen still called the women “girls” and expected them to fetch his coffee. Like James Carville, this man refused to see a connection between his demeaning treatment of women — which he insisted was harmless — and “the important stuff,” such as unequal pay and job discrimination. Sure, women should have a fair chance at work and the same pay as men, he said, but what harm did it do for him to call the secretaries “girls” and have them fetch his coffee? He wasn’t hurting anybody. Focus on the important stuff!

It’s the age-old cry of the man who refuses to see that sexism isn’t just a series of incidents, but a systematic bias in which his own behavior is complicit. “Focus on the important stuff!” he says, by which he means the stuff he’s not doing.

Or as James Carville says, “The guy was just having a good time!… Is this really what we’re talking about?”

Why yes, Mr. Carville, it is. It’s the system, stupid.

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77 Responses to “It’s the system, stupid”

  1. quixote says:

    Or as James Carville says, “The guy was just having a good time!

    And that’s the problem, isn’t it?

    Together with the fact that he (and Favreau, and about 50,000,000 other people) can’t even see that humiliation isn’t actually fun. Not even for them.

  2. sister of ye says:

    No one thinks that Jon Favreau is personally responsible for crimes against women.

    Actually, it’s possible he eventually could be. As speechwriter, Favraeu is an important player in a political operation whose only claim to merit is eloquence and ultra-coolness.

    There’s always a lot of laughter from Catholics remembering grade school teachings like “laundry list” confessions. But the point behind those things was to teach kids conscience formation, to make them reflect on their own behavior, to make them think before doing, to envision consequences of their actions. “Sure, I ran a stop sign, but I didn’t hit anyone.” Yeah, but what about the guy who swerved to avoid you and killed the single mom who was raising three kids?

    Favreau and the rest of Obama’s sexist crowd need to start to think. It isn’t junior high, talk-big, no-action anymore. “Hey, it was just a stupid Facebook picture with a cut-out.” But what about the even more juvenile Obama groupies who copy your attitude? “Hey, if Obama’s speechwriter gropes figures of women, disrespecting them is cool.” Not a big leap to a little forced action, maybe some GHB, maybe stalking a neighbor. “Come on, I just wanna have a good time.”

    Of course, back in grade school there was always the threat of the yardstick. I think Favreau could benefit from a few whacks upside the head. Where are the Nun Patrols when you need them?

  3. Alwaysthinking says:

    Violet, your post tells the story. It needs to be published everywhere and sent also personally to Mr. Carville.

  4. qaz says:

    These men know exactly how demeaning it is to women…that’s why they do it and that is why they defend it. It’s keeps women diminished.

  5. Greenconsciousness says:

    I wish this post could be sent to NYT and is also cross posted at (gag) Huffington, Riverdaughter and Allegre’s. We all should cross post it and send it to CNN. This is it – Violet is our Gloria Steinham

  6. foxx says:

    Carville or any other man has no business telling new agenda or any of us wht we ought to be doing.

  7. Alwaysthinking says:

    Although it didn’t address sexism, the song from South Pacific (the musical)”You’ve got to be carefully taught,” keeps ringing in my ears.

  8. kenoshaMarge says:

    Wasn’t it just precious that Carville, Blitzer and that other moron, all agreed that there was nothing for us “girls” to get upset about?

    Just wondering who gave them the “right” to decide what is offensive or demeaning to women. Just wondering who in the hell they think they are to believe they have any right whatsoever to tell us that a pinheaded, moronic, half-drunk lout has the right to have “fun” pretending to grope the breast of the soon-to-be Secretary of State of the United States of America?

    Fun Asshat? Fun? Pretending to grope the former First Lady of your country? Fun Nitwit? Fun to pretend to shove a beer in her mouth? Fun to diminish and demean a United States Senator, who just happens to be a woman? This lout, this cretin is going to write speeches for the President of the United States? That is absolutely revolting.

    Some of us don’t think it’s fun. We women who have some dignity and self-respect aren’t amused.

    You’ve been hanging out with the wrong kind of women Mr. Carville and Mr. Blitzer if you think this kind of behavior is just harmless “fun”. The kind that evidently accepts being treated like trash as good, harmless fun. Or maybe they don’t but can’t get it through your sick, twisted, sexist heads that this kind of crap isn’t funny.

    I pity your daughters Mr. Carville. Because you certainly do nothing to make us suppose that you want dignity, equality and decency for them. The lack of it for one woman is the lack of it for all of us.

  9. Sis says:

    And to repeat: this is what happens to young women on college and university campuses everywhere: they’re male “friends” get them drunk and then rape them.

    That is what they were miming. Date rape, acquaintance rape, frat-house rape. Alcohol, roofies, she asked for it. That’s why this is so abhorrent, not only that she is Secretary of State. That they are sanctioning, inciting, to rape.

    As Amy at The New Agenda has pointed out, 32 percent of women in college and university report ‘domestic’ violence. Why are the authorities and men afraid to call it what it is. Why do they hide behind euphemism? Because they know what they are doing: rape, battering, abuse, harassement, kidnapping.

    That is what Favreau and the “Obama staff” member were miming.

  10. Sis says:

    Over at Obama’s website, they are asking for your questions on issues important to you. Any questions?

    I think this is a perfect opportunity to put it to them. And keep a copy, so we can document how many of us asked “the” question.

    Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:31 am EST
    Open for Questions
    Today, we’re rolling out a new feature that lets you ask the Transition team any questions you have about the issues that are important to you. read more…

    change.gov

  11. orlando says:

    Did the people who gave Carville a platform to air his ignorant opinions provide for any right of reply from someone with an opposing viewpoint? Or is balanced reporting still all about letting the public believe that no one really disagrees with the old white guy in a suit?

  12. Ali says:

    Recently my husband and I were looking to relocate to a hip and scenic east coast town. But we paused when we looked at the rape statistics which were startlingly high. Why, it was a college town of course. This is where we send our young women off to find their grounding in adulthood? Rape Universities? What a hideous ass Carville is for making light of this. Of course his response had so many holes, such a vast amount of intellectual dishonesty. It’s basic psychology that thoughts and words come before action. He doesn’t get what’s wrong here because the man is complicit. Carville and his friends were looking like a bunch of unrepetent date rapers themselves, so smug they were in their mockery.

    Who was it that said that it feels like we’ve been transported back to the 50s? What you wrote is awesome, Violet. Thanks for pulling us all out of this terrible time warp by stating so eloquently what is wrong with this picture.

  13. Sis says:

    No Orlando, they did not provide a countering voice.

    Carville has no equal.

  14. Greenconsciousness says:

    I got a shiver up my leg when I read this thread — take the whole thing over to BO’s site. BTW, He wants us to use his middle name, Hussein, now. I won’t comment further but I am not kidding and i am not making this up – CNN again.

  15. Kiuku says:

    I don’t get it. James wants us to focus on sex discrimination, but that -is- sex discrimination.

    “Silliness” GO NEW AGENDA!!

    This means we are making an impact. Keep calling it out.

  16. Kiuku says:

    Oh man I just listened to what he actually said. He first has to call us Stupid. Then he has to say we need Psychiatric help. All typical tactics used to dismiss women. Because the man was just “fondling a piece of cardboard”. a “27 year old having a good time”. This shouldn’t say anything about his “talents”. I’m not even going to go into the double standard here, with this defense.

    The problem is that he was doing what all men do to women to a prominent politician he didn’t like, and whom the Obama camp purports to engage fairly with, because she was a woman.

    Yea Hillary is a woman and what do you do with women? You grope them and you shove beer down their throat.

    Wow he was really angry. What a dipshit. Go New Agenda!!

  17. Tim J. says:

    I think the obvious parallel would be if somebody took a cutout of Obama, drew some shackles on it, and wrote “Toby” on it. Heck, I think the “Toby” thing alone would be sufficient to spark outrage.

  18. Kiuku says:

    Yes and this also is a tactic I see used by men and misogynists frequently, especially in regard to “grey” rape, because taking a sexual assault seriously might diminish real rape where the guy jumps out from behind the bush and beats the married (to a white guy) or celibate virgin woman senseless.

    Just because men do horrible things, does not make the lesser things that they do less offensive. If we give in on the “smaller” offenses, we give in on the larger ones and I’m not saying the humiliation of a public figure by simulated sexual assault is a little thing. We need to keep the outrage. We won’t be silenced.

  19. Sis says:

    Hip east coast town. I’ve heard New Brunswick is very nice. On a latitude with most parts of Maine.

    Hussein?

    This is what’s important to him? What we call him…oh I see.

    Has anyone seen ANY satire of him yet? Anywhere?

    SNL. The Onion. Leno. Ferguson.

  20. Anna Belle says:

    That was just sickening to watch. The news apparently degenerating into locker room reality TV. For f**k’s sake, will it ever end? Geezus, I hope Dr. Long gets her army. If I was close, I’d volunteer in a heartbeat. I’ve been itching for some Alice Paul-style action for years now…

  21. Anna Belle says:

    That is what they were miming. Date rape, acquaintance rape, frat-house rape. Alcohol, roofies, she asked for it. That’s why this is so abhorrent, not only that she is Secretary of State. That they are sanctioning, inciting, to rape.

    Spot on, Sis, as usual. As for Obama and satire, Jimmy Kimmel did actually go to a barber shop to ask what was acceptable humor. I thought it was pretty revealing about two things in particular:

    1: White fear of making fun of Obama
    2: The disgusting sexism inherent in our country, regardless of race.

    Truly disgusted me on both counts.

  22. LV says:

    Others have made this point, but it still gets me every time: One of the most depressing aspects of this whole sorry tale is that this wasn’t something leaked (for example) by an opponent. This little twerp put the picture up on his own Facebook page. Not only did he not think there was anything wrong with doing what he did at the time, he didn’t think there was anything wrong in publishing the evidence afterwards. It just didn’t enter the head of this supposedly gifted and politically astute individual that anyone would see anything even slightly controversial, never mind unacceptable, in the symbolic sexual humilitation of a female politician.
    And yippee, along comes Carville to prove him right.

  23. Sis says:

    Because, again, Obama has given the green light to this kind of thinking. He is still supporting it, as long as he doesn’t condemn it. Get over it Sweetie.

    “It just didn’t enter the head of this supposedly gifted and politically astute individual that anyone would see anything even slightly controversial, never mind unacceptable, in the symbolic sexual humilitation of a female politician.And yippee, along comes Carville to prove him right.”

  24. Mountainaires says:

    James Carville has two daughters; he wouldn’t be so dismissive if one or both of his daughters were the victim of such blatant sexism. What if Favreau was pictured groping a picture of his daughter or of his own wife, Mary Matalin? Worse, his mother, whom he was reportedly quite close to; Chelsea Clinton may not think this is quite as “silly” as James thinks it is. Senator Clinton is her mother after all.

    [note to those inevitable cretins who will now post jokes about Matalin--she is a woman and deserves respect, no matter her political persuasion.]

    No, Carville would not think it quite so silly if it were a member of his own family.

    And, here’s something which caught my eye quite a while back, but it still shows there is a very thin line between language and images, and a dangerous reality for women:

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56296

    In a California rape trial a Judge banned use of the word “rape” because it unfairly prejudiced the defendant.

  25. octogalore says:

    Yeah. Carville’s doing the “people are starving in Cambodia” thing meant to shame people out of asserting legitimate claims. Problem with that logic is, while most of the time it’s helpful to get that perspective, in this case it actually is on the same spectrum, as you point out.

    I thought it amusing that Carville comments so often about him being “27″ and “so talented” and precocious. It’s as if a smart guy is so valuable we need to get past the details. There’s a classist as well as a sexist message there — if Favreau hadn’t been a “talented presidential speechwriter,” would this be more of a problem to Carville? Like — we can let our top guys demean our women because they’re our top guys.

  26. slythwolf says:

    It’s the same old shit. You wimmins are doing feminism wrong! The stuff you’re concerned about isn’t as important as the stuff I say you should be concerned about! Fuck off.

  27. Anna Belle says:

    I thought it amusing that Carville comments so often about him being “27″ and “so talented” and precocious. It’s as if a smart guy is so valuable we need to get past the details. There’s a classist as well as a sexist message there — if Favreau hadn’t been a “talented presidential speechwriter,” would this be more of a problem to Carville? Like — we can let our top guys demean our women because they’re our top guys.

    Wow, there really is something so very “Ancient Greek” about that…I hadn’t thought of it that way.

  28. Anna Belle says:

    Doh! Modded again.

  29. tinfoil hattie says:

    No one thinks that Jon Favreau is personally responsible for crimes against women.

    I absolutely believe he is personally responsible for crimes against women. It’s just that misogyny and its associates actions are not considered crimes. But they are.

    Note to Carville: That’s me, focusing on the IMPORTANT THINGS.

  30. sis says:

    It’s still up, this morning. He doesn’t even have the conscience to remove it. Obama has not told him he must.

  31. tinfoil hattie says:

    Who was it that said that it feels like we’ve been transported back to the 50s?

    We never left the fifties. Just because we now have the “right” to work our asses off and be held responsible for everything and everyone, with no accompanying authority to decide anything, does not mean we’ve made any progress.

    No, Carville would not think it quite so silly if it were a member of his own family.

    I actually don’t think he would give a shit.

  32. tinfoil hattie says:

    Jimmy Kimmel did actually go to a barber shop to ask what was acceptable humor.

    Because as all asshat white men know, every black barber and every customer in a black barbershop is the definitive spokesman for what is acceptable in “black culture.”

    Did Kimmel ask any black women what was acceptable humor?

    Clearly this has me incredibly pissed off.

  33. Gayle says:

    Did any of you see or read “Primary Colors?” Remember the crazy Billy Bob Thorton character? The one who pulls down his pants and takes out his dick in front of the newbie female campain worker?

    That character represented James Carville.

    Hardly surprising he wouldn’t consider this was a big deal.

  34. Gayle says:

    Yikes!

    “Hardly surprising he wouldn’t consider this a big deal.”

    That’s what I meant!

  35. Sis says:

    Someone who posts at Riverdaughter The Confluence, several people actually, went to Obama’s website to ask why Favreau still has a job. Here’s the answer they got, on a section of the site that invites you to ask Obama a question on an issue that is important to you:

    ##

    For “sexual violence” and “Jon Favreau,” the search engine returned these results [Emphasis added]:

    “Why hasn’t President-elect Obama fired Jon Favreau for his inappropriate sexual assault fantasy against Sen. Hillary Clinton, still available on Facebook? It reflects badly on Obama coming from his new head speechwriter and offends all women voters.”
    NanInBoston, CA – Questions View response Post a response

    This submission was removed because people believe it is inappropriate.

    “Given the obvious inappropriate groping actions of Jon Favreau regarding the Hillary life-size cut-out; will he still be a part of the Obama administration?”
    Durham4sale – Questions View response Post a response
    This submission was removed because people believe it is inappropriate.

    “Your speechwriter recently behaved in a manner denigrating and humiliating to all women, especially Hillary Clinton. Yet you have not fired him. How can we be sure you will run a transparent, honest, and respectful administration in light of this?”
    Gabriele, Ohio – Questions View response Post a response
    This submission was removed because people believe it is inappropriate.

    “Would you favor eliminating Jon Favreau as a staff member for his ridiculous, inappropriate and disrespectful behavior towards our new Secretary of State (http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2008/12/10/jon_favreau)?”
    Jenn, Beltsville, MD – Questions View response Post a response
    This submission was removed because people believe it is inappropriate.

    “Given the obvious inappropriate groping actions of Jon Favreau regarding the Hillary life-size cut-out; will he still be a part of the Obama administration?”
    Durham4sale – Questions View response Post a response
    This submission was removed because people believe it is inappropriate.

    “Why hasn’t President-elect Obama fired Jon Favreau for his inappropriate sexual assault fantasy against Sen. Hillary Clinton, still available on Facebook? It reflects badly on Obama coming from his new head speechwriter and offends all women voters.”
    NanInBoston, CA – Questions View response Post a response
    This submission was removed because people believe it is inappropriate.

    “Why has there been no response from the Obama administration concerning the Jon Favreau groping incident? This action is indefensible. He needs to go.”
    Still hoping for change, AK – Questions View response Post a response

    “How do you justify keeping Jon Favreau on you team given the demeaning actions displayed? How do you justify this to all the women voters, and Hillary supporters, that are offended by this disturbing and insulting behavior/?”
    Durham4sale – Questions View response Post a response

    Durham4sale is persistent, and I suggest that we be persistent to. Let’s all go over to change.gov and ask questions about why Jon Favreau hasn’t been fired yet. You can also ask other *appropriate* question about sexism. Apparently many of the people who comment on change.gov consider questions about sexism “inappropriate,” so your question will probably be removed. But let’s just keep asking anyway. Is this really change we can believe in?

  36. Lucy says:

    I am so angry about this, I just can’t stop shaking. I’ve been groped hundreds of times, date-raped, and I worked for years in a hostile corporate environment long before the term “sexual harrasment” had any legal meaning — for a boss who used to take us gals to lingerie shows and pick out something for the best of us.

    As for Carville suggesting women who are upset by this need shrinks: well, I spent years in therapy specifically because of the trauma visited on me by men. How dare he. How goddamn dare he.

    This frat-boy mentality is just disgusting and I’m beginning to think the only way to combat it is to get militant. A commenter over at Heart’s place said that one reason men don’t get it is that women don’t assault men, don’t rape them.

    Maybe it’s time we do.

    Why, after all, can girls not have the same “fun” that boys do?

  37. Ali says:

    Oh my god, Sis. I think I’m going to be ill. Seriously, weirdly, unbelievably ill. I’m in another world… this is not my country.

  38. Sis says:

    http://change.gov/page/content/openforquestions

    You have until midnight tonight to ask Obama what he will do about Favreau. Question ‘tool’ then closes until next week.

  39. RKMK says:

    As Sis says – get in there. I wrote the following question, and I have 4 votes of support, 11 against:

    “The Facebook picture of Favreau violated the transition team’s own Facebook rules, insulted and undermined the authority of Obama’s SoS, and created a hostile work environment for all women in the Obama Administration – WHY hasn’t he been fired?”

    Search “Favreau” “sexism”, “misogyny”, anything else you can find.

    There are 1000 questions asking if Barack Obama will decriminalize pot: let’s all firebomb the site with legit, feminist concerns.

  40. Lisa says:

    I submitted two questions that seemed to immediately disappear…. do they go to the end of the line?

  41. tinfoil hattie says:

    You know, let’s get rid of the terms “date rape,” “gray rape,” and “domestic violence.

    It’s rape, assault, beating, torture, murder.

    Fucking call it what it is, people (not “people” as in “posters at Reclusive Leftist” but “people” as in “misogynist asshats apologizing for men who rape and beat and torture and maim and kill women”).

  42. Violet says:

    I submitted two questions that seemed to immediately disappear…. do they go to the end of the line?

    You mean over at the Oborg site? (not here I don’t think — have nothing from you in moderation)

  43. tinfoil hattie says:

    Thank goddess for you and for this site, Violet. That’s all I can say.

  44. Lisa says:

    yes, sorry Violet, I meant at change.gov
    creeeeepy over there…..

  45. Sis says:

    I think you have to be careful to tie your question to the administration’s concerns. You know, ‘change’ and etc.

    Yesterday there was a butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-their mouths blurb about Human Rights Day. Really.

  46. tinfoil hattie says:

    Well, at least let’s get over to change.gov and vote “approve” on the appropriate (i.e., feminist) posts.

  47. Sis says:

    By the way, you could tie it to the recent The William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act passed the U.S. House at 6 p.m. Tuesday night and passed the Senate yesterday, according to Donna Hughes of the DIGNITY listserv. The bill’s sponsor is Sen. Joseph Biden [D-DE]; co-sponsors are Sen. Benjamin Cardin [D-MD], Sen. Orrin Hatch [R-UT], Sen. Richard Durbin [D-IL], Sen. Arlen Specter [R-PA], Sen. Samuel Brownback [R-KS], Sen. Dianne Feinstein [D-CA]”

    You see, rape is of concern if it happens over there, or involves women from over there. Then it can be tagged racism. Raping, prostitution, pornography (which is filmed prostitution) here, with our own female citizens, no, apparently not.

  48. tinfoil hattie says:

    We’re being silenced. I just went over there and searched for “Favreau.” Response? “We found 0 results for ‘Favreau.’”

    Sexism: “We found 0 results for ‘Favreau’”

    Misogyny: “We found 0 results for ‘favreau.’”

    They’ve all been deleted. All of them.

    And there are 450 questions about legalizing pot.

  49. Violet says:

    It is difficult for me to muster any enthusiasm for participating in a mock exercise like that question thing at Oborg.gov. It’s meaningless. It’s just more busy-work for the useful idiots who still think all that Hopey McChange messiah crap was real.

  50. tinfoil hattie says:

    Well, symbolic or not, thousands of questions are getting through to someone, and none of them are about sexism, misogyny, or other important women’s issues. There are thousands of people reading the questions. Whether the questions actually go somewhere or not, the point is women are being rendered invisible again.

  51. Shane says:

    I understand the trick with it is that a question gets flagged as ‘inappropriate’, it gets deleted, so its really easy to silence any actual questions. Typical.

  52. Lisa says:

    fascism anyone?
    I feel like I am in a dream world like The Handmaid’s Tale.

  53. Violet says:

    tinfoil hattie, you’re right that it’s an outrage that they’re just deleting the questions. But for me that’s an outrage on top of an absurdity, since the whole thing is just a Potemkin village.

    To clarify: I sympathize and agree with your outrage. Just sort of disgusted with the whole kangaroo deal in the first place.

  54. Sis says:

    It is beginning to feel like we live in a Russian novel isn’t it.

    On another note: I want to thank you Vi. You set a fine table.

  55. Northwest rain says:

    Sexism is LEARNED behavior — and apparently this is a very supportive cultural environment for women hating men.

    I’ve read most of the remarks and I’m going to save this discussion — because it is SO important.

    The problem is that most men do not seem to GET IT. But they do — most of these guys have harassed women. And the stupid women/girls who wear the C**T t-shirts — how many of these women have NOT been harassed, groped, raped etc. From the most extreme sexism to the merely mild forms of sexual harassment?

    What gives a bunch of males like Carvillia (spelling on purpose) the right to pass judgment in such a SEXIST manner. In fact their treatment of this subject is SEXIST — and they are sexually harassing women. So THERE — you misogynistic dicks.

    These jerks need to be educated — and they need a heavy dose of UNLEARNING!

    Where is a llama when you need one — a well trained llama will deliver a big wad of oogy googy grass spit — in the face. That’s what Carvellia needs.

  56. m Andrea says:

    I submitted two comments here:

    http://change.gov/page/content/discussservice

    If there’s another place I missed it in my haste to get in under the noon deadline.

  57. Sis says:

    Oh look! They want to know what social programs we support.

    Let’s tell them.

  58. octogalore says:

    Gayle, interesting point re Primary Colors. Billy Bob was perfect casting there. Klein didn’t pull that flashing incident out of thin air. Typical that this is the “expert” CNN would choose to declaim here.

    Deafening silence from the Chief Executive on this. Seriously, any Fortune 100 Company or law firm would already have acted. That’s not such a high bar.

  59. Violet says:

    I love the woman’s comeback in that scene. “I’ve never seen one that…old.”

  60. octogalore says:

    That was classic.

    His wiki page has some good examples of his level of respect for women. One classy one, and one doesn’t have to be a Paula Jones fan to feel like this shows Carville’s true colors. He says about her:

    “Drag $100 bills through trailer parks, there’s no telling what you’ll find.”

  61. Polly styrene says:

    It’s the stooopidness, stoopid!

  62. Sis says:

    “Drag $100 bills through trailer parks, there’s no telling what you’ll find.”

    But guys who behave like skanks are “immensely talented … only 27 … probably drunk … poor (that Catholic college) … and … whatever.

  63. Sis says:

    He was “performing a suggestive gesture.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Favreau_(speechwriter)

  64. CoolAunt says:

    OT: Does anyone else think Carville might be an alien? An ET? If he’s an Earthling, then he’s one of the strangest looking humans I’ve ever seen.

  65. Sis says:

    Just google his name, and then click “images” on google search. I double dare ya.

  66. CoolAunt says:

    Sis: Just google his name, and then click“images” on google search. I double dare ya.
    I did it and the results were frightening. But it’s comforting to know that I’m not the only one who finds the guy’s appearance to be disturbing.

  67. The History Enthusiast says:

    If commenting on Obama’s site isn’t working, would it be possible to have an online petition and get a ton of signatures? Would a petition hold any weight? I’ve used this site once before: http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html.

    If we could present the President with the signatures, maybe that would have an effect? I know this is probably wishful thinking, but I feel like I need to do SOMETHING.

  68. Carmonn says:

    To be fair though, Carville works for he hard news epicenter, CNN, so I can see why it would be a distraction. Taking time out to condemn sexism is time that can’t be used to report on Biden’s puppy and speculate on Obama’s.

  69. Kiuku says:

    I bet it wouldn’t be too hard to find this guy demeaning a woman for her behavior that he didn’t like that really hurt no one. I bet he had something to say about Britney Spears underwear for instance.

  70. Kiuku says:

    As for being an alien I think he looks positively lecherous..befitting his character throughout the ages.

  71. Kiuku says:

    Like one of those creatures on 300

  72. Kiuku says:

    No guys I know what it is!

    He looks like Gollum!!

    hahaha

    http://www.danperezstudios.com/images/workshop/gollum%20maquette.jpg

    Maybe he has the One Ring and he isn’t telling anyone.

  73. Sis says:

    I think it is a ‘real’ movie creature. I don’t see those kinds of movies, but that’s what I understood this was, a kind of: separated-at-birth imagery with this movie creature, and Carville.

  74. soopermouse says:

    bad news
    There’s a big showcase of Favreau in WaPO, and by the looks of it, Obama’s keeping him

    If I see one more feminist or feminist hack (Melissa, I am looking at you) supporting Obama after this, I will take a metaphoric bat.
    Fucking morons.

  75. Yanni Znaio says:


    James Carville is upset with The New Agenda.

    I’d take that as a definite sign that y’all are doing something right.

    :-)

  76. Anna says:

    An op-ed piece I wrote about Favreau was published in Pajamas Media this week for anyone who would like to read and/or comment:

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/groping-hillary-without-consequences-the-case-of-jon-favreau/

  77. Hedgepig says:

    Just so you know I’m not on a random Old Post Revival rampage, doesn’t this astute observation from Tim J on this thread speak to the subject currently being discussed on the Triumph of Patriarchy thread?

    “I think the obvious parallel would be if somebody took a cutout of Obama, drew some shackles on it, and wrote “Toby” on it.”

    Can you imagine the outrage THAT would have elicited??