Feminist therapy on BlogTalkRadio at 9pm ET Monday

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33 Responses to “Feminist therapy on BlogTalkRadio at 9pm ET Monday”

1. Sis says:
   

   Vi you sound so small, and far away. And sweet, and vulnerable, and endearing. xxxooo

   I think no amount of martial arts will work. Men are almost always bigger and stronger, and have the advantage of height too. Plus, since there’s always an element of violence in any m/f relationsip (Twisty TM) we never really know until it’s too late that oops this isn’t one of his love hurts turns.

   I think, honestly? The only thing martial arts can do is give you that moment to get away, whether it’s after the first blow, or before when you may momentarily stop him with attitude. Because you may be able to stun him, but you cannot beat him. And he’ll come up madder after that first hit. Madder, and more aroused. Yeh.

   So, you only throw the punch or the water before you run like hell, into the face of oncoming traffic, screaming FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!

   November 17th, 2008 at 10:17 pm EST
2. Anna Belle says:
   

   I guess I missed it. Sorry! Sounds like it was a good one. I heard a snippet…

   November 17th, 2008 at 11:06 pm EST
3. quixote says:
   

   Sis- I don’t have much experience of physical combat, but it seems to me your attitude is a bit defeatist. Small doesn’t equal harmless. Look at people back carefully away from a scorpion. It doesn’t matter how big somebody is, they’ve got eyes, and everybody’s eyes are vulnerable.

   Admittedly, you have to be lucky to avoid the really bad situations. But for borderline crap, going into cobra mode has worked for me the few times I’ve been backed into corners.

   I can see several reasons why martial arts help. 1) You’re fitter. (Don’t specifically need martial arts for that, of course.) 2)You react faster and get that extra second. Fighting is all about being milliseconds faster.

   Also, obviously, in a bad enough situation, nothing works. Even a gun wouldn’t work if you’re too outnumbered. But that’s no reason to think, “Gee, if he really let fly, I wouldn’t stand a chance,” and fold before you even start. If you really let fly, who knows how much damage you could do? He certainly doesn’t. And that’s pretty intimidating. I’ve seen guys just back away from those situations. (Probably because it’s got all the shock value of being attacked by a rabbit, but who cares? Whatever works.)

   November 18th, 2008 at 12:21 am EST
4. quixote says:
   

   (By the way, where do you get this: “there’s always an element of violence in any m/f relationship”? There is? I’d call a guy who tried power trips a bully. I sure as hell wouldn’t call him a lover.)

   November 18th, 2008 at 12:30 am EST
5. votermom says:
   

   I’m offline at night, sounds like I missed a good discussion.
   A self-defense class I went to once included a lot of info on how to identify and avoid risky situations, how to run away, and also how and where to inflict one unexpected blow to (hopefully) temporarily incapacitate an attacker so you can then run away. Women are raised to suppress our natural defensive instincts and it takes conscious training practice to overcome that.

   November 18th, 2008 at 9:59 am EST
6. tinfoil hattie says:
   

   It was a good discussion. I couldn’t listen to it all, but it was both infuriating and heartening.

   I still hawk Gavin de Becker’s The Gift of Fear every chance I get, and I think it’s been mentioned here several times. Caveat: I don’t like some of the things he’s said about women in abusive relationships. He takes a privileged and black-and-white view of the situation. I was disappointed with that aspect of his book.

   November 18th, 2008 at 11:17 am EST
7. votermom says:
   

   I 2nd de Becker — although it was his book for parents I’ve read (a lot of the same info, afaik), and very useful stuff to know about the way child abusers “groom” their targets.

   November 18th, 2008 at 11:23 am EST
8. Branjor says:
   

   Men don’t have to be bigger and stronger or have a height advantage. That is an evolutionary development, not a secondary sex characteristic :). Men spent centuries choosing women who were smaller and weaker over the stronger specimens with which to reproduce. Also, feeding and nutrition during the first year of life will affect ultimate size and strength permanently throughout life. It apparently does not affect lifelong health. Less than optimum will cause smaller size and strength in adulthood, no matter how good nutrition is after that first year. As mothers tend to feed boys more than girls, that is also a cause of the size and strength disparity between women and men.

   And yeah, Sis, that sounds just plain defeatist to me. A woman with martial arts training no doubt has an advantage over a larger, stronger male without one. I knew a man once who was rather small but a black belt in karate. He could lick many a larger man.

   November 18th, 2008 at 11:37 am EST
9. Branjor says:
   

   That should be “a larger stronger man without any” (martial arts trianing).

   November 18th, 2008 at 11:43 am EST
10. Alwaysthinking says:
    

    Wow! Lynette truly has opened up a powerful and therapeutic discussion that can be moved into the mainstream and, as she said, provide a collective memory of things we need to address and resolve. Getting all of the big and little kinds of attacks that women have endured as a matter of course in life is really eye-opening. What a powerful picture it paints of the constant oppression on our lives that we for so long have almost taken for granted!

    Not long ago, I went with my husband to a bicycle shop to have my son’s bike shipped to a function for Lance Armstrong in which he was going to participate. Someone from the bike shop came out to get the bike from the trunk of the car. He then placed it on the ground behind the car to take it apart. As he did so, my husband, the bike guy, and I were standing behind the car chatting. Suddenly, I was totally startled when a large man came up behind me and furiously lifted me up and back down to the ground again about six inches or so further behind the car. I was stunned and then furious.

    I asked him why, and he said that a woman next to us in a car was trying to back out of her parking place and that she had honked at me but I refused to move. I had not heard anything and I told him that. He responded with some angry epithet and words that I didn’t even grasp, walked away and he got on a bike himself and rode away. I don’t know if he was related to the woman in the car.

    I am still stunned that anyone could do that. It was broad daylight or I might have actually been terrified. Instead, I am just plain angry whenever I think about it. I realize that this had to be a sexist act because I can’t imagine he would feel he had the right to do that to a man. Also, clearly, I was several years older than he was.

    What kind of society do we live in?

    November 18th, 2008 at 12:20 pm EST
11. Sis says:
    

    That is clearly physical assault, and the thing to do in situations like that is get the vehicle license plate number and report it. (Every situation will differ. I’m not suggesting this is always possible). You can prove he did it. You had witnesses. I think we have to be very persistent in making formal complaints and demanding police file charges in these situations. A man would.

    You go to the station and fill out the forms, witnesses or not, and keep asking about it, and keep escalating the level of person you ask for updates from. It helps to know the name of an inspector (or, in the U.S.???) even if you don’t actually KNOW the office. It will intimidate a snotty constable if you say “Fine. I’ll call Inspector McGillicuddy tomorrow morning. What is your name and badge number please”.

    November 18th, 2008 at 12:31 pm EST
12. Alwaysthinking says:
    

    Yes, it was assault. I was so shocked, however, that everyone was gone, including the car with the license tag, before I could think. No one else in the parking lot even seemed to notice. But, yes, I do think we need to follow through by reporting these kinds of incidents — if the police will pay any attention.

    November 18th, 2008 at 12:43 pm EST
13. votermom says:
    

    AlwaysThinking, that’s shocking.
    I’m curious — how did your hubby and the bike guy react?

    November 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pm EST
14. Sis says:
    

    Also suggest taking a quick snap of vehicles license plates, even if they are exiting the lot and quite a ways away by the time you get your camera out. It can be enlarged to see the numbers. this is also useful for the attacker running away, the crowd standing around doing zip, and location (street sign). Take wide angle shots, so as much as possible is shown in the shot. It can be enlarged.

    I think we do have to work on attitude. We have to be bold (but not necessarily aggressive) cool (not losing it, or “hysterical”).

    And vengeful.

    Which is where riding the cops asses at the station comes in, and if all else fails, yes, blogging it, with locations and names, “restaurant at the corner of X and Y” if that’s all you feel safe doing. And if you do have any pictures, post them on Holla Back.

    Scream and yell “What do you think you’re DOING!! “Why are you following me?” “Get away from me”.

    Everyone within earshot will turn around, and watch you. You’ve got witnesses.

    Attitude.

    http://www.womensenews.org/art.....n/aid/2734

    November 18th, 2008 at 1:11 pm EST
15. bluemorning says:
    

    Read this article on the Gulabi Gang (pink vigilantes)of women
    from India who are fighting for their rights by joining together:
    http://tinyurl.com/4mvofh
    Daily Mail

    You go, Girls!

    November 18th, 2008 at 2:41 pm EST
16. donna darko says:
    

    Y’all can listen to the shows which are archived or subscribe and listen to them on itunes.

    Monday is Ladies Night on the Radio:

    FreeUsNowMavericks Radio w/ Betty Jean aka Not Your Sweetie Mondays 8pm EASTERN
    Link is - http://www.blogtalkradio.com/FreeMeNow
    Call-in Number: (347) 838-8011

    Dr. Lynette Long: Sins of Omission Mondays 9 pm EASTERN
    Link is - http://www.blogtalkradio.com/n.....f-Omission
    Call-in Number: (347) 677-0792

    The New Agenda Chewing the Fat with Ophelia Mondays 10 pm EASTERN
    Link it - http://www.blogtalkradio.com/The-New-Agenda
    Call-in Number: (347) 324-5942

    November 18th, 2008 at 2:52 pm EST
17. Alwaysthinking says:
    

    votermom — Neither saw it. Both were kneeling on the ground working on the bike. When I explained what happened to the guy from the shop, he didn’t have much of any reaction. By the time my husband grasped what happened, the assaulter and the car driven by the woman were gone. (I never did see her.)

    I don’t think it occurred to either of us that it was reportable as a crime. It really shocked and angered me but I basically thought it was terribly, terribly rude and crude. I was as angry that he startled me from behind and dared to touch me as for the more absurd action of lifting and moving me. Wherever that guy is, however, he definitely needs anger management.

    By the way, our deaf school is not far from where the incident occurred and I later wondered how a deaf person might have felt. They would not have heard the car honk either.

    November 18th, 2008 at 4:01 pm EST
18. Sis says:
    

    It’s also a really sad point that neither of these people could get out of the car, and come over to your group and say “Pardon me, but would you please move a bit so we can exit the parking lot safely?”.

    I must say, I think we Canadians are more polite, but I don’t know if it’s only because our pop is so small that we may find we work with or are related to the jerk.

    November 18th, 2008 at 6:12 pm EST
19. Sis says:
    

    Hey Donna I’m really excited now. I love radio. I can hardly wait until next Monday night. I’ll just have my mocha coffee (cough) and my croissant all warmed up and ready to go. Three hours of divine. How come I didn’t know about this before? I can’t say I’ll call in because I really save long distance fees for family, but I’ll be listening. And maybe I’ll figure out how to comment online.

    Till then. /\

    November 18th, 2008 at 6:18 pm EST
20. Yanni Znaio says:
    

    tinfoil hattie:

    DeBecker talks about listening to your “inner voice” and noticing when little things appear wrong. That’s what votermom was talking about.

    I like that.

    I don’t like DeBecker because he’s bigoted against the use of firearms.

    And it’s presumptuous to make a general suggestion about such a thing to everyone else, which I believe he does in his book. (been at least 10 years since I’ve read it, and only did so once.)

    While I’ve stated on this forum that IMHO firearms are “not for everybody”, let me say this:

    The right tool for the right job. And you can take that any way you wish.

    Arbitrarily deciding that you won’t keep, say, wrenches in your toolbox because you don’t like them is, well, just silly.

    I like to use hand tool analogies to judge the validity of statements about firearms, because that’s exactly what firearms are. Hand tools.

    And you don’t see people getting all worked up about screwdrivers or sledgehammers.

    Drop the name of a hand tool into the sentence in place of the firearm-related word, and if the sentence suddenly sounds ridiculous, then the position that’s being espoused in the original sentence is probably ridiculous as well.

    This object substitution works surprisingly well for any number of topics (but you don’t always use hand tools). The right word for the right job.

    BTW- I was surprised to learn that DeBecker has no formal training (psychology, e.g.) or credentials.

    He did hire folks who do to develop MOSAIC, though.

    YZ

    November 18th, 2008 at 6:26 pm EST
21. Sis says:
    

    I fail to see how my strategy for survival is defeatist. I’m using my brains.

    I love those martial arts movies. They’re fantasy.

    November 18th, 2008 at 6:29 pm EST
22. Yanni Znaio says:
    

    Sis:

    Your strategy is NOT defeatist.

    See what I said to Jean here.

    P.J. O’Rourke (one of the funniest people alive, IMHO) once said that “Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and skill”.

    Best regards,

    YZ

    November 18th, 2008 at 7:03 pm EST
23. Sandra S. says:
    

    YZ-

    I’m not inherently anti-gun (I have plans to hit the range next month). But I think there’s a serious problem with your gun=screwdriver analogy. People don’t have a problem with the tool itself in the case of guns, they have a problem with the job. If screwdrivers were used for removing eyeballs from cats, I’d be against screwdrivers. I’m against private ownership of hand-guns, and against private ownership of rifles except in very specific cases (Say farmers who need to protect livestock from coyotes or what have you and sport hunters, and even then, I’d rather see good fences and people playing paintball), because they’re only used for three things: offense, defense, and looking scary. All three of those things can be better served by other tools, in my opinion.

    November 18th, 2008 at 8:00 pm EST
24. Yanni Znaio says:
    

    Sandra S:

    We’ll have to agree to disagree.

    I’m not going to debate the pros and cons of gun ownership here, as I doubt that Violet would appreciate it.

    I’ve said a bit about self-defense on another thread, and since it was a real-world perspective on self-defense and firearms, it was on-topic and germane.

    Arguing with you wouldn’t be, so I won’t do it.

    FYI, the only thing I’ve ever shot with my firearms is paper targets.

    Best regards,

    YZ

    November 18th, 2008 at 8:27 pm EST
25. Kiuku says:
    

    Self Defense is great and all, but the law continually punishes women for use of lethal force against male aggressors. I’m not talking about the ones we hear so much about in the media, but the multitude of ones that are silenced, because we now have women serving 10 year sentences for stabbing aggressors, and yet everyone says women should shank the bastards. I think we should shank the bastards until the law realizes that there are just too many women to lock up for shanking the bastards.

    November 18th, 2008 at 10:43 pm EST
26. Yanni Znaio says:
    

    Kiuku says:

    Self Defense is great and all, but the law continually punishes women for use of lethal force against male aggressors. I’m not talking about the ones we hear so much about in the media, but the multitude of ones that are silenced, because we now have women serving 10 year sentences for stabbing aggressors, and yet everyone says women should shank the bastards. I think we should shank the bastards until the law realizes that there are just too many women to lock up for shanking the bastards.

    That may be true in some cases, but there was a case not too long ago in North Carolina where a woman who had fled an abusive spouse blew him away through the door of the house while he was trying to break it down.

    No charges filed.

    And, IMHO, a good thing, too.

    And pardon me for making an observation, but you really need to try using a smaller brush.

    As I’ve said before, just because all men have pricks doesn’t mean that all men *are* pricks.

    November 19th, 2008 at 2:35 am EST
27. Sandra S. says:
    

    YZ-

    You’re right. That was pretty OT. And I’m very willing to agree to disagree. I just thought it was a bad analogy. I’ve shot paper targets and Coke cans and bales of hay. That’s all for me. I learned to shoot as a kid from my dad. I think its why I’m not against guns in general.

    November 19th, 2008 at 3:10 am EST
28. tinfoil hattie says:
    

    YZ - After reading the first page of your blog, I’m not impressed with your feminist cred. You link to a Chris Muir - Chris Muir! - cartoon that makes a “joke” about a woman telling her man to go out and support her. Yeah, yeah, I’d believe it’s all meta ‘n’ stuff if Chris Muir weren’t one of the most misogynist cartoonists on the planet.

    You also make the joke about “We’ve already established what you are, now we’re just negotiating price,” which is a hatefully misogynist “joke” about prostitution. Hur hur.

    You also talk about how Sarah Palin needed to get back her “bitchiness,” and then “apologize” for sounding sexist.

    So I don’t care what you think about Gavin de Becker, guns, or what women “should” do about anything.

    November 19th, 2008 at 5:32 am EST
29. Yanni Znaio says:
    

    I have no idea WHAT to think of this.

    November 19th, 2008 at 12:43 pm EST
30. Sis says:
    

    Oh I think you do. It’s pretty clear: this is funny. To the writer, and the targeted audience, the people out there they are speaking to, which is always presumed to be male, unless it’s about make-up, children, or setting the table.

    It’s like the comment some time back about a rape not having been so bad. It’s not the degree of that were calling out, it’s the act, period, which is against one’s will, and directed toward women.

    The sandwich or whatever may have been in his hand on another occasion isn’t the point. It’s his attitude toward women, his and the audience’s, that this is no biggie. It’s just a woman, it’s just a sandwich. It’s just the attitude.

    The comments if there are any, will only focus on the fact that someone other than the woman might have been injured on the freeway.

    November 19th, 2008 at 12:53 pm EST
31. Yanni Znaio says:
    

    You will note that I did not put a smiley in my comment.

    They charged his ass, as well they should have.

    Sandwich or not, you don’t beat down on somebody driving on the freeway, male or female.

    Unless you have a fondness for guardrails.

    YZ

    November 19th, 2008 at 1:55 pm EST
32. TheOtherDelphyne says:
    

    You’re right, Sis - the last sentence about the police not releasing the kind of sandwich involved is supposed to elicit a chuckle, isn’t it? The fact that the woman was hit wasn’t really the story - it was being hit with a sandwich, which somehow strikes the AP writer as comical. And is supposed to be received as being comical by the reading public.

    It didn’t work with me.

    And, I’ll bet that the sandwich in question was a knuckle one.

    November 19th, 2008 at 2:02 pm EST
33. quixote says:
    

    (Branjor: This is OT, but I just wanted to mention the evolutionary pressures that result in larger (mammal) males. In my non-cyber-life, my profession is college biology prof, which is why I get all persnickety about these things. ;-)

    The selective pressure is emphatically not males choosing smaller females. Females do almost all the choosing. One example of the evidence: penis size and shape varies widely among monkey and ape species; vaginas OTOH very little. The only selective pressure there is female preference.

    The main reason for the body size disparity is that it reduces the nutritional requirements of pregnant and lactating females. That makes them likelier to survive lean periods, of which there are plenty, pre-technology.

    As it is, pregnant and lactating females need about as much food as large males. They’re bumping up against the limits of food availability for the species. If mammal females were the same size as males, their food requirement would be so much larger that the two sexes would have to have entirely different foraging strategies. There are animals that use that strategy (eg some birds) but they don’t have complex societies that need cohesion among members.)

    November 20th, 2008 at 6:10 pm EST

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