Change we can be scared shitless by
Totally unrelated soothing image. Well, there is the food angle.
Any hope that the hatred unleashed by the Obama movement would subside post-election is starting to fade. The signal features of Obama’s movement have always been fanaticism and misogyny — and note that I’m talking about the real Obama movement, not the Obama™ movement — and these were ratified at the polls on November 4. They’re now part of acceptable behavior.
I was over at Lynette Long’s blog this morning, and two of her front-page posts are disturbing testament to this phenomenon.
“One person told me to go die. It was a lot of dying. A lot of comments about how I should be killed,” Catherine said, of the tolerance in Oak Park.
~
One student suggested that she be put up on a cross for her political beliefs.
“He said, ‘You should be crucifixed.’ It was kind of funny because, I was like, don’t you mean ‘crucified?’ ” Catherine said.
Other entries in her notebook involved suggestions by classmates that she be “burned with her shirt on” for “being a filthy-rich Republican.”
Catherine is lucky she wasn’t physically assaulted. Others haven’t been so fortunate. Lynette’s second disturbing post is about what happened to her and her friends at a restaurant last night:
Last night I met three friends for dinner at a popular local restaurant. When I arrived my friends were already there. One was sitting at the corner of a packed bar while the other two were standing behind her. Beside them three guys would not release two seats they were saving “for friends” for at least 30 minutes. When I arrived, one of my friends, eager to find me a seat, tried to take one of the seats held by the guys, saying she would be happy to return the seat once his friends arrived. He pulled the seat back and yelled, “You are just a bunch of C****.” What??? Haven’t we seen that word emerge during the very recent Presidential Campaign? I was flabbergasted. I have never in my life heard a woman called the C word. Ouch.
The women asked the bartender to take charge and ask the guys to give up one of the seats he was saving. The bartender would not intervene. His response was a cold, “His friend is parking the car.”
The second of the four of us was infuriated and went and had a long talk with the manager. I could not hear what she said, but the manager sheepishly asked one of the guys for a stool. No, again. Frustrated, the woman who had spoken to the manager poured a glass of water on the head of the most aggressive of the guys. He turned around, grabbed her by the hair with his left hand, pulled her down, and dragged her across the restaurant floor while punching her in the face with his right hand. Three patrons pulled him off.
As I watched, it all seemed so surreal. I had enough of my wits about me call the police as soon as the fight started. As we waited for the police to arrive, the three guys took off angry and triumphant. I followed them for a couple of blocks hoping they would slip in to one of the many restaurants around the corner, which they did not.
When the police came we stepped outside to explain what happened. When the woman who was assaulted told the police they called us a C****, he said, “That’s a part of a horse.” When she showed him her broken glasses and bruised face, he said, “You started the fight.” Something is not right here, a woman’s been pummeled in the face and you tell me it’s her fault. Disgusted, we left, found another restaurant and had dinner.
Lynette’s friends weren’t wearing McCain T-shirts, but they are middle-aged white women — which presumably is just as bad. As Lynette says:
I think we cannot dismiss the election’s place in all this. The world watched as Hillary Clinton and Sara Palin were eviscerated by the mainstream media. Calling women C**** was tolerated. Demeaning and disrespecting women was deemed OK. A young potent male was victorious over an older women. It was a symbolic victory on many deep psychological levels. I am afraid last night was just the beginning and that there will be more crimes against women. Times have changed and not for the better. I can smell it in the air.
108 Responses to “Change we can be scared shitless by”
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Sis says:
Yes, I could give you a few, but I won’t desecrate our space. I’m not even American, or a girl, but the c word is now cool du jour, everywhere.
None of the media pundits, the mainstream media, HERE, who are filling their copy quota with jokes and mis-statements about Palin’s religion, will stopp to touch Obama’s religion. That, that there would be wrong. See?
I heard a Kenyan rap song yesterday on our most popular cultural radio show (radio is big in Canada) a radio show on which the host has been fellating Obama for a month now. The rap had a dub of Martin Luther King’s words over a rapture about Obama. Geezuz.
November 15th, 2008 at 12:46 pm EST -
Foxx says:
Absolutely physical violence against women is part of Obama’s message. It is how he maintained the allegiance of all those young men.
Women are going to have to put ourselves on the line physically.
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Alessandro Machi says:
four letter word starting with C….
Don’t you mean coug?
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pacific-cali says:
Yes, it is also my feeling that things have gotten MUCH worse. Just the other night I was watching the most mainstream crap on tivo: House & the Office. Both shows used the word “bitch” to deride a female character. I hear this word more now than I ever have in my life - its all over network TV. And the c-word is all over the cable shows.
I’d love to see an effort to track all these shows and the woman-hating storylines and vocabulary.
I mean, perhaps the sponsors of “House” would like to know how many times per episode the word “bitch” is used against a woman - and how that makes all of us women who buy the sponsors products VERY angry. -
julia says:
It has gotten worse and we have got to organize. We can’t take the stand that most people are with the new ‘administration’ - wait and see. We have to fight back.
A United Women’s Front.
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TheOtherDelphyne says:
That restaurant story is unbelievable! I’m still shocked from reading the entire thing. Women really don’t know the depth of hatred men seem to harbor against them - what else would provoke such violence. It seems hatred has gone over the border into insanity.
I took my dog for a walk today after the rain stopped in NJ - would you believe it’s 70 degrees? We didn’t go through the woods because it was too wet, but we did head to the fields where we used to play baseball as kids. There is an old picnic house there - and what was scrawled on the seats in chalk? The c word - not once, not twice, but 3 times. And judging from the handwriting, it appears to have been kids who did it.
Just out of curiosity, I got Barbara Walker’s Women’s Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets and her definition of the c word is:
Derivative of the oriental Great Goddess as Cunti or Kinda, the Yoni of the Uni-verse. From the same root came country, kin and kind. Related forms were Latin cunnus, Middle English cunte, Old Norse and Frisian kunta, Basque cuna. Other cognates are cunabula, a cradle or earliest abode; Cunina, a Roman Goddess who protected children in the cradle; cunctipotent, all powerful (ie, having c*nt magic); a hole or passage; cunculate, penetrated by a passage; cundy, a coverted culvert; also cunning, kenning and ken; knowledge, learning, insights, remembrance, wisdom. C*nt is “not slang, dialect or any marginal form, but a true language word and of the oldest stock.”
Not sure how accurate this is, but it makes it easier to hear that word when this definition is remembered.
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Kiuku says:
Police brutality against women may have increased:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
WARNING! pretty gruesome
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Lisa says:
Violet that story makes me furious.
I have been guilty of using the word bitch. I will never use it again. Good Lord, if I ever hear anyone call a woman a cunt in my presence I will go ballistic and probably end up in jail.
TheOtherDelphyne don’t you love that book? My copy is so old and worn. It is my favorite reference book.
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quixote says:
* * * * *
/speechless/In a much much more awful way, this reminds me of the attitude change towards bombing abortion clinics at the start of Ronzo’s preznitcy. Before him, violent fundamentalists were cultists who needed psychotherapy, and bombing clinics was a crime.
Then he made it respectable. You could feel the shift. He was, after all, such a “nice man.” And he was President. The King can do no wrong.
Now woman-hating is mainstream.
You know the scariest part? This doesn’t even take us back to the 60s or the 50s or some crap. There was plenty of sexism, but it was not acceptable or mainstream to hate women. You were a kook or a criminal then. To get back to a time when women were a hate group target, you have to go all the way back to the days of witchburning.
They didn’t stop at namecalling in those days either.
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Mar says:
It is horrible the way those women were treated in the restaurant. Since we are not the stronger (in terms of body strength) we must use our brains. Mothers must teach their sons to have more respect for women. When the police did not respond appropriately, call the watch commander. When the watch commander does not provide satisfaction, call the alderman and or police commissioner. Call the owner of the restaurant to complain about the ineffectiveness of the staff in handling those brutes. (The manager should have said “This round of drinks is on me, and after this round you are leaving.” Then call the police if they do not.)
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TheOtherDelphyne says:
Lisa, yes, I love that book, too.
Mar, I hope the women do pursue the abuse with the authorities you mentioned. I also hope that the story gets some media attention. Re: using our brains. Have you read the story Sultana’s Dream? It was written at the turn of the 20th century by a woman from India. It’s short and I love it. Here’s a link for an online version:
http://home.earthlink.net/~two.....ultana.htm
I love seeing women in martial arts because they can defend themselves against men like those restaurant thugs.
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CoolAunt says:
The restaurant incident, in my opinion, isn’t so much an example of the escalation of misogyny due to Obamania as it is a lesson in how to go about escalating abuse by a stranger from verbal to physical. I’m not saying the victim got what she deserved, that it was okay for that asshole to drag her by the hair and beat her. What I am saying is that it wasn’t okay for her to get physical with him, either. Pouring water on the dickweed’s head was physical abuse…and dumber than dirt, too, in light of the hostile woman-hatred he’d already displayed.
Yeah, more women should stand up for themselves against misogyny. I say that as a woman who’s gutsy and bold and who’s been known to tell sexist assholes (and assholes in general) to go fuck themselves. But I or any woman (or any person, for that matter) would have to be a fool to escalate a verbal assault to a physical assault over something as stupid as a selfish asshole hogging a chair and screaming profanities at women, especially when the asshole’s already shown that he has no problems expressing his hatred toward women. Let him keep the fucking chair. (I might have even told him as much, “Keep your fucking chair, then.”) He could have the ugly scene he caused, too, and share it with the apathetic bartender if he wants,
The other stories here are good examples of the hatred of Obamaniacs, both their hatred of “non-believers” and their hatred of women. The chair story, however, seems unrelated, perhaps even a stretch to link it to Obamania, stretching that’s not needed with so many incidents directly resulting from Obamania occurring. That’s just my opinion, that it’s inclusion weakens the other stories/experiences, for whatever it’s worth.
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sister of ye says:
You can delete this if you find it too inappropriate.
I think we women are going to have to overcome our inherent or implanted “nice” streaks and be prepared to meet violence with kind. You note in Long’s story that it wasn’t her friends who came to the victim’s rescue, it was three “patrons,” presumably men. A strategic knee to the groin by one of those friends might have been a help.
When misogyny is absorbed into law at the highest levels, going to the next level, the managers or supervisors, may not bring justice, even when those positions are occupied by women. This election we saw women in the media, the political system and even feminist groups jump on the wagon to join the hate.
For me, being prepared won’t involve buying a gun - even if I had the eye-hand coordination, as someone with asthma, I’d be too tempted to plug smokers hanging outside of buildings I need to enter. But for some women it might, or martial arts. Rape defense techniques can useful in other situations.
I’m not talking seeking physical confrontations, or vigilante justice. But as Foxx said, sometimes we’re going to have to put ourselves on the line physically to defend ourselves, our friends and even strangers.
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Ron says:
Here’s a Must See video from 1946 that discusses despotism vs. democracy. Note particularly the heading called Respect but also Information. Considering the behavior of the Obama types and all the misogyny, low respect means higher likelihood for despotism.
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Mar says:
Sister of ye,
I think you are correct that misogyny is absorbed into law and more as we saw this time around.
It may be that this election opened our eyes to how persistant it is and that we thought we had achieved more than we did.
I think that it will be necessary for us to be more firm in our expectations. I say this because two weeks ago I was in a Starbucks and I wanted a pound of coffee ground to Turkish fine which is like powder. The grinder that they needed to use was filled with coffee they had not ground yet. So a male barista asked me what kind of filter I was using so that he could advise me about the fineness appropriate for the filter. When I have asked for Turkish grind before I have been told that is too fine for a paper filter, so on this occasion I told him that I wanted it ground for Turkish. I did not discuss or negotiate what I wanted. I had to wait, and later I called Starbucks to complain because at 11:00 a.m. they should have been prepared for a simple request.
This was a small thing, but I was not going to settle for less than what I wanted for the convenience of the crew at that location that day. We can still be nice, still be polite, but it is time to be firm as well.
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Cyn says:
I think I’m gonna go throw up. This is sickening. A child and three older women, whose only crimes are being born female.
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ea says:
I agree that dark days are ahead. Unfortunately, I believe it will take something really bad happening to enough of the women-hating women or a daughter/spouse/mother of a prominant male politico for there to be any serious discussion.
Stay strong sisters, I will need your support online, as I work in an area that could be considered “the front line.”
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Jean says:
I agree with CoolAunt to a degree on the bar story. The woman was understandably angry and frustrated but she should’ve demanded that the man who called them names be told to leave. If the manager refused, she should have pulled out a pad and started gathering names and contact information from the manager and the other patrons. The implied threat of complaints to the owner, picketing, e-mails notifyiny the media that women were treated disrespectfully in the bar, etc., would have been more effective, I think.
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Branjor says:
Re the bar story, I think the asshole should have been charged with assault and battery for the dragging and punching even if the woman was also charged with assault and battery for pouring water on him. The dragging and punching could have done a lot more physical damage than just some water. I’m not sure, but I think calling the women c**** could also be legally charged as an assault. Other than that, I agree with CoolAunt, it was a dumb way to handle the asshole, but of course her patience must have been tried to the very limits by them.
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Cyn says:
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The woman was attacked and beaten. A glass of water over the head was an unwise act. Dragging her and punching her is a crime. It’s called assault.
And, what about the child? Threatened with crucifixion and burning?
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julia says:
My only thought on the bar violence is that the other women did not come to ther rescue. Grab the vilent guy from behind, grab onto his neck - that sensitive part - get into his face so he has to let go. I know we are not socialized to fight as women, and this is a huge weakness. Three against one should not be difficult, but I have to remember I was not there, I didn’t have to stand up to him, and I know how easy it is to freeze. That is what we have been taught to do - freeze.
My condolences to the woman who was beaten.
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Ali says:
Regarding the restaurant incident, what are the attacked woman’s legal rights despite an unresponsive police force? It would be empowering to see some legal action.
Both incidents bring to mind the need for our country to understand how this election has hurt woman. We need a comprehensive movie, video, film, something! As of now, even my tough talking art school graduating feminist friends are in love with Obama and believe Sarah Palin is a bimbo barbie doll if not a c***. And despite their numerous blogs, none of my friends raised an objection about those t-shirts. No wonder men feel comfortable calling us this now. Collectively, we have pretty much said - it’s okay! Bet the same men wouldn’t have used the N word and a bet the same manager would have responded to the N word being used. Cause the African American community says it’s NOT okay. And they say this with presence and force. Bravo. Time for us to do the same.
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DarthVelma says:
What pisses me off is that if the woman in the bar story had called that guy a racial epithet or impugned his masculinity/sexual orientation, the police would have considered those “fighting words” and the whole thing would still have been her fault…but calling a woman a cunt is not big deal. *sigh*
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samanthasmom says:
I’ve been mulling this over since Violet first posted it. Although the guy’s reaction was extreme, Lynette’s friend is guilty of assault. The police could have arrested her, and probably would have if the guys were still there when the cops arrived. I have brothers, and one of the things I learned growing up is that if you want respect from guys, you don’t pick a physical fight with them and then hide behind “you can’t hit me because I’m a girl” when they respond in kind. Lynette’s friend was wrong when she poured water on the guy. She didn’t deserve the escalation in violence, but she did start the physical fight. There were other avenues open to her without resorting to physical attack. I’m more concerned over the story about the young girl in her McCain tee shirt being threatened. Where are our children learning that behavior? Are their dads the ones hanging out in bars denying seats to middle-aged ladies?
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Jean says:
Cyn,
I’m not trying to criticize the woman’s actions or ignore the physical harm that was done to her. I’m suggesting a way to resolve similar situations that will work for women and not get our faces punched.
In an altercation, the person who initiates the physical part of the encounter is going to be viewed as the aggressor by the police no matter what the gender of the parties involved.
The fact is that women lose most physical fights that we have with men. We have to use our heads to beat them.
I think that what happened to the teenaged girl was horrible and should be handled the way any similar comments are handled by the school. If a student gets expelled for suggesting that another student should die, then the students who did that to the girl wearing the McCain t-shirt should face the same consequences.
Please do not get the idea that I take violence against women lightly or that I’m blaming the victim. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is that I’ve been there and done that and I’d rather win without getting beat up, if possible. That’s all I’m saying.
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Violet says:
I have brothers, and one of the things I learned growing up is that if you want respect from guys, you don’t pick a physical fight with them and then hide behind “you can’t hit me because I’m a girl” when they respond in kind.
That’s interesting, because I grew up with the rule that a man must never hit a woman, ever, under any circumstances. Even if the woman slaps him or throws water in his face, which is her perogative as a female.
It used to be a common trope that a woman could slap a man or throw a drink in his face, and that was her right as a woman (smaller, weaker, not really able to inflict damage). It certainly didn’t give a man the right to respond in kind. Men aren’t supposed to hit women, period.
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samanthasmom says:
Violet,
If it’s wrong for a man to hit a woman, then it’s equally wrong for a woman to hit a man, throw water at him, slap him or whatever. A double standard is a double standard. My brothers were not allowed to hit me, but if I hit them and then hid behind my gender for protection, I lost their respect, and I deserved to. Women slapping men in the face should be a relic of the movies of the 40’s.
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Cyn says:
Jean, no, I don’t mean to diminish your idea. It’s just that I work in the legal profession and what the woman did could possibly rise to a harassment charge (which is a violation). But, dragging and punching a person is a physical attack and a crime.
Although I wouldn’t have had the guts to pour a glass of water on anyone, it is not a violent act. It is so sad that in order to be taken seriously, that is what it came to. The women tried to take care of it in a civil matter, to no avail.
I don’t advocate violence at all. It just irks me to no end that violence can be used against us without any punishment, as evidenced by the fact that the man was not arrested. But god forbid a woman acts up. When she does, she deserves what she gets.
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kat in your hat says:
ALL women need to take self defense courses, and it should start in childhood!!!
Police these days think all physical assault is equal. Even though men are sometimes 5X stronger than women…like gorillas.
We are programmed to be weak victims.
Brainwashed in society to be doormats, punching bags, and sex toys.
UGH! We need to change so much.
Learn self defense! Work on making it the norm!
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jenniforhillary says:
ALL women need to take self defense courses, get concealed weapon licenses and buy GUNS. Next time this man puts his hand on a woman, he should get his COCK shot off….
And no, I am not joking. I am a fucking bitter white woman and I am not taking this shit anymore.
FUCK OBAMA and his supporters.
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Jean says:
That should have been “beaten up”.
samanthasmom,
Your points are well taken but I don’t think that most police officers would have arrested the woman even if the man insisted. An exchange of information and referral of both parties to the DA’s office is more likely.
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Lisa says:
Violet, I agree. Also, what was he expecting when he called her a c***? (I remembered not to type it this time). If it had been two men, and he had called the other man a N****, that would have been considered provoking a fight right there.
What did the other people in the room do when a woman was called C***? Did no one hear? No one responded?
If this guy really thought that acting like an a*@hole and then calling a woman a c*** wasn’t picking a fight- what world is he living in?
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Cyn says:
Point of law. If the police don’t arrest you, the DA doesn’t have any standing.
The most you could possibly have is a civil case, and then you would have to prove mucho grande damages to get a lawyer to even look at your case.
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Jean says:
We’re talking about misdemeanor crimes that are differently defined in different jurisdictions but calling someone a name is not assault as far as I know. In my city, it can be considered disorderly conduct but it has to be witnessed by the police and be persisent to warrant an arrest.
I’m not saying that, in the real world, some, maybe most, police officers wouldn’t be more inclined to make an arrest if the N word were used than if the C word were used, but that’s the impact of endemic sexism on those individuals. It’s not spelled out in the law. -
Cyn says:
No, we are talking about women being disrespected, threatened and beaten.
I’m out. Carry on.
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Jean says:
cyn,
The police in my city can refer the parties in misdemeanor cases, except for domestic violence, to the DA to have them determine whether there is sufficient cause for criminal charges to be filed.
They are required, by state law, to make an arrest if they have probable cause to believe that domestic violence has occurred. -
Alwaysthinking says:
Frightening that everything we feared if Obama got elected is beginning to happen even before the Electoral College meets. Yet hatred already has been ratified.
Have the angry young men who were mollified by financial success in the 90s discovered new reasons to hate their sisters or the people who brought them into the world? And what wonderful models of courage they are to younger generations!
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Kiuku says:
Well no it is not a matter of self defense because the law clearly punishes women for defending themselves against men. The police will beat you. The courts will put you in jail for longer sentences than murderers and rapists (men). The law regarding violence is also set up to legitimize might makes right. That is why the law does not take into account the size of the two parties of the aggressor or the victim. If the law was reasonable, and set against violence, the law would allow women and smaller parties to defend themselves with lethal weapon.
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Foxx says:
What these women in the bar did is way better than nothing. We will not always be perfect. What is important is that we stand up and fight back. The guys had to run away. And give up their chairs!
I’m concerned about the school girl. Did the school do anything, did the parents demand anything?
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Carmonn says:
“A double standard is a double standard. My brothers were not allowed to hit me, but if I hit them and then hid behind my gender for protection, I lost their respect, and I deserved to”
I have no brothers but younger sisters. They often hit me, and I never, ever hit them back–not because they hid behind anything, but because I’m bigger and stronger and it’s wrong. I wouldn’t lose respect for them if they told me not to hit them–they’re right. I don’t want to hurt them. Yes, they should exercise better impulse control, but throwing some water on me would not give me the excuse to beat the hell out of them just out of pride or principle or just because I can. I’m much more capable of inflicting damage on them than vice versa, so like a cop it’s my moral obligation to hold back even if they don’t and not abuse the physical power I have. If pouring water on someone is an assault, then that guy should call the cops and have the woman arrested, not resort to caveman tactics and feel vindicated on fairness or something. Two things may be equally wrong, but if the consequences are much graver in one case over the other, then that’s what’s important.
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Anna Belle says:
I hate to break it to you, but it’s going to get even worse. I quote from page 54 of Rahm Emanuel and Bruce Reed’s The Plan:
“We need a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us by establishing, for the first time, an ethic of universal citizen service. All Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 should be asked to serve their country by going through three months of civil defense training and community service.”
Call me crazy, I believe their going to militarize/indoctrinate young people. Once they’ve gone through this three month program, most of them will want to threaten that girl or hit that woman. This kind of uber-masculinity has traditionally been a precursor to world war, too. I’m terribly worried about the future.
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Nijma says:
Why is this called a “popular local restaurant”? Why is the name not published? There should be a picket line at this place every day with signs that say what the patrons there can get away with.
And where is the police investigation? Is there no Human Rights Commission in this city? Oh, I know they would sugar coat everything and eventually sweep it under the rug, but the next police officer called out on a complaint like this would think twice before violating a woman’s civil rights. Why, eventually even bar patrons might get the idea it was not okay to punch out women.
And did no one get a license plate number? Do these people have names and jobs?
If we do nothing, we become complicent.
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gazzed says:
I think this kind of behavior is just going to get worse and worse, I was abused many years ago by my first husband, he was just an angry, crazy person, he used to beat me and treat me like a dog, until one day he was hitting me and there was a knife on the counter and I picked it up and pressed it against his neck, I didn’t kill him although I could of, but I had a small son at the time and I had to think of him and that is the only reason I didn’t kill him, but to this day he has been married four times and has beaten everyone of the women, some pretty badly, one he threw out of a RV in Nevada somewhere and left her for dead, but she wasn’t someone found her and called police he was arrested a short time later, I think it was the way he was raised his father beat his mother and in their eyes it was OK to beat and torture women, shortly after the knife incident I left him and he harassed me for 8 long months after I left him, I had him arrested at least a half dozen times, but he always was left out of jail, this was in the early 70’s, I thought things like that would change, but here we are in 2008 and not much has changed, but now I’m not afraid anymore, I can defend myself after taking many years of self-defense classes and becoming a black belt, I will protect myself if I have to especially in a life or death situation.
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m Andrea says:
Far too many women think bossing around a clerk is “empowerment”. No, that’s domination when not handled with politeness.*
Empowerment is being in a situation where one has every right to be treated as an equal, and one confidently seeks parity when it is not offered freely.
Cross the line into domination, and one loses the high moral ground from whence we get to look down our snotty noses at everybody else. lol
*ooo, think I might have answered my own question from the other thread! Which explains why I am an asshat. :/
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Libby says:
I have a different perspective to share.
I work in a public position and cannot tell you how many times a day I see black mothers and white mothers who mishandle their male children when the kids are very small.
Unfortunately I see if more frequently with mothers of young black children but I also see it too often with the mother of young white children.
When I see these kids crying and begging to be paid attention to while being mistreated, I also find myself thinking, I can see why these children are growing up to hate women. When a child is small and powerless, and the mother clearly is overwhelming the child with unreasonable demands and putting them in situations in which they expect them to behave, while not making it tolerable to a young child, it is like lighting a match for future confrontations, anger, and hate.
I see fathers doing the same things to their children. But more often it is the mother who is without a husband or supportive boyfriend who is stuck trying to find a way to move ahead with her life, while taking care of a child who needs attention that she is not giving him.
These children did not ask to be born but they are here because of choices there parents made beginning with having sex.
These children are born into a firestorm when they should have been born into a sheltering safe place. Their parents make themselves feel big by attacking their own kids, dragging them around or putting them into impossible situations, treating them in an abusive manner if they do not behave, and making them miserable.
These small children are racking up a bunch of nasty memories and then they too can grow up to be Barack Obama and get theirs back by becoming President. Or they can do the other things Obama did, dope, gangs, radical associations to change the world because their world was never very good in the first place and they want something better.
Problem is, these are very troubled children, and they do not always have the best background to make the things happen that they need to happen to make their lives better. So they retreat to their early childhood learning…paying back the mama who hurt me.
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Polly styrene says:
Not really connected with the thread, but check out this subtle bit of Palin bashing.
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Ali says:
The whole situation, the c- word, the glass of water being thrown, the violent physical response, it sounds like a civil rights situation right out of the sixties. This whole situation is the kind that makes the newspapers, that makes television if the assault were on an African American woman or man. But if we doubt that in this situation the men were the aggressors and not the women, then we really do not believe in civil rights for women.
i.e. a glass of water being thrown in the face (a physical but not violent act) of someone who just called you a c*** does not equal being dragged across the room and pummeled by someone physically more powerful. I think learning self-defense is a great idea but the main goal is to create a society in where our members respect and do not demonstrate hatred toward women. Period.
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samanthasmom says:
If you give women the right to hit men but not grant men the reciprocal right to hit back because women are smaller, weaker, etc., you are accepting “less than” status. That status will then be used against you to keep you from flying planes, working for UPS, becoming a fireman or EMT, learning a skilled craft in the building trades, etc. No one should be hitting anyone else or even throwing water. Period. The price to pay for “princess privileges”is high. That’s what my brothers called things I could get away with that they could not. Lynette’s friend did not deserve to be hit and dragged across the floor, and I do not mean to imply that. The guy was being a jerk, and I fully understand her anger, but if a guy had thrown a glass of water at him and the jerk had thrown a punch, the water thrower would have started the fight, regardless of the words that were tossed around. I’m not sure we do much to help our cause by getting involved in bar fights, and I know we hurt our cause by insisting on being treated as the “weaker sex”. Most of you are probably too young to remember “Help Wanted Male” and “Help Wanted Female” ads.
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atheist woman says:
Besides the fact that if it were really about responding in kind, the arsehole would have thrown a drink on her, not dragged her and punched her (I think we’ve got an issue of male derangement syndrome!)
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Lisa says:
Gosh do I have a headache this morning, and everything I read just makes it worse. I read this article at Politico:
http://www.politico.com/news/s.....15635.html
The article is about NOW starting to complain about the lack of women in cabinet picks. The really disturbing part is the comments. All those very young women so angry that women are standing up for women. Here are some excerpts from the comments:
________________________________________________
Am I missing something…By insisting Obama look at women, aren’t these groups saying that unless you go out of your way, no women candidates would be considered? Aren’t they asking for special treatment, or that gender be used in a quota system or affirmative action way?
Wouldn’t it be better if these groups worked on helping female candidates get to the point where they have the experience and exposure to be considered on their own, without having to play the gender card? What’s it called when a woman is pushed into a position just because she is a woman? Pulling a Palin?
If it were shown Obama discriminated agains a woman because of her gender, then these groups would have a point. But asking him to choose a nominee because of her gender appears to be an admission that being female is somehow lesser and that women will only qualify if they are given extra credit just for being female.
________________________________________________and another:
________________________________________________Women’s groups do NOT speak for ALL women.
Women make up the largest subgroup of American voters.
If women cared about this issue,
they would be organized and vote together as a block.
They are NOT organized and do NOT vote together.
This proves that most women are happy with their lot in life.
As a result, women deserve what they get.
Women are extremly diverse.
The idea that one woman or a women’s group
represents other woman is a myth.
I refuse to think that a few militant women represent the rest of us.
_______________________________________________It just sickens me. How do we reach them?
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octogalore says:
Polly styrene — as someone with a lot of respect for Maddow, less so lately, I found that clip really disappointing. We know Maddow is smart and logical, so when she isn’t, it’s pretty clear there is bias involved.
Re Palin, certainly there were bloggers with accurate info and bloggers with inaccurate info. That’s what Palin was saying. I’m not happy with all the accurate info that was posted, but I also realize that a lot of it was inaccurate. I think Maddow does as well. Palin has a perfect right to say that the media ran with info from both categories, and that some of it was from dubious sources.
Maddow’s pretense that all media’s equally authoritative, dressed up as solidarity with bloggers, is pure crap. Many bloggers are outstanding. But many bloggers don’t have the factchecking apparatus or face the scrutiny that larger media sources do. And although media is far from perfect in this regard, especially this year, they at least are supposed to stay away from pure opinion and conjecture. There’s no requirement that bloggers do this.
We know that if a politician Maddow liked had talked to the press about unsubstantiated rumors stemming from blog posts, she’d be quite sympathetic. That’s what’s so disappointing here — way to prove the “liberal media bias” crap right, Rachel.
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Yanni Znaio says:
TheOtherDelphyne:
I, too am into etymology and it IS an ancient and noble word.
I have not spoken up on this one as I am loath to suggest what women should do–
but IMHO this is a word that needs to be “taken back” so as to remove any power from its use by your enemies.
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gmanedit says:
There is no point to arguing with a drunk.
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yttik says:
When I was a teen age girl I saw an elderly woman shoved down into the dirt on a jogging path by some 20 yr old punks. There was a cop right there. He came over, helped the woman up and began to lecture her about the dangers of being mouthy. The men who had shoved her continued on their jog.
Nothing taught me more about women’s status as second class citzens that that one experience.
Fortunately since then I’ve also seen some real acts of courage and compassion from young men or I might have become some sort of renegade militant or something. I still dream of being able to just zap people who disrespect their elders, especially women. I’d like to impose a little behavior modification, LOL. Zzssst.
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qaz says:
Lisa: those kinds of comments make me think it is men commenting not women.
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Polly styrene says:
The point about the Palin clip is surely not that she’s attacking bloggers, but attacking the mainstream media for not fact checking and going with unsubstantiated rumour.
And of course then two supposedly ‘feminist’ blogs run the clip as ‘a defence of bloggers’. What? It’s just an unfunny attack on Palin for defending herself against what have now been proved to be lies. Which she is surely entitled to do.
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Kiuku says:
This, the above comments, is a prime example of how men use oppression to justify oppression. All through this election the men women in their lives seek to love have told them how smart they are to not vote with their vaginas, and how vagina voting is bad. These same men then turn around and say if women really cared they would “Block vote”, organize and “block vote”. How is that different from being a vagina voter? How is that different from being a cunt?
When women realize they are just cunts to men and accept this, we will have Feminism.
Realize also that if men cared about parity they would be rallying around female candidates instead of pretending there are no qualified ones, and that those appointed must not really be qualified (special treatment wah wah wah), like the oh so qualified men we always see getting appointed. lol
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Kiuku says:
50% of the male vote is always going to be with their penis. It is always going to be about dominating women. We can’t pretend like men are brothers or helpers in Feminism, like the neo feminists think.
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pacific-cali says:
Was just wondering - does anyone know of a word that pertains to men that would be equally as offensive as the c-word?
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Kiuku says:
Pacific,
Men in general? No. Because men are not oppressed by women, there exists no equal word. You can look at groups of people who were oppressed, men and women, and find similar words.
Cunt and Nigger are equal.
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Yanni Znaio says:
This is an excerpt from Obama’s victory speech.
Does anybody else see what’s not there?“It’s the answer spoken by young and old, rich and poor, Democrat and Republican, black, white, Latino, Asian, Native American, gay, straight, disabled and not disabled - Americans who sent a message to the world that we have never been a collection of Red States and Blue States: we are, and always will be, the United States of America.
Women.
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Lisa says:
yuuuup.
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Anna Belle says:
The only word I can think of that comes close is d**k. We could empower it further. I always call those semi-porno action and horror movies d**k flicks, for instance.
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Lisa says:
I hate the c word. Yes, noble origins, but it even sounds ugly. I think we just need to totally go crazy whenever we hear it. Shame people into being afraid to use it. Speak up speak up speak up!
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woman o' the world says:
If you ever watch Showtime’s “the L word” (new season begins in Jan) you’ll see that producer Ilene Chaiken - supposedly a feminist - has her lesbian characters calling each other cunts all the time. As insults.
Protest every time you hear/see this on tv. Teach your children (if ya’ got any) about the violence and misogyny and anti-sex attitudes woven into our language. I don’t know of any other country that insults people with the amount of sexual terminology we use.
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Sis says:
C*cks*cker.
Men do not like to be called c*cks*ker. The huge insult here is you are telling them not that they are gay, but that a man would do something so degrading that only women should do.
No part of a man’s anatomy is wrong, no matter what you call it. Wrong, for men, is equating them to a woman in some way. Only women degrade themselves by sucking c*ck. That’s the operative there. The degradation is comparing them to a woman.
So it’s complex. Conflicted. And comes back on us really. There is no way you can call out a man based on anything to do with sex. It all comes back to women being degraded.
You asked.
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soopermouse says:
whatever you do, do not read the crap at Salon where Joan Walsh, Kate Harding and what’s her name are trashing Palin for not running away in shame on SNL and praise Tina Fey for being a rude POS who would not even salute Palin.
These people are not feminists. These people are not our allies and we need to stop making excuses for them. These people make me ashamed to share a gender with them.
However, it does seem that maybe women in the USA should start votin with their vaginas only. Nobody’s listening to their mouths anyway.
Or even better, have a fucking strike.
All across America, have one day in which women do nothing. No childcare, no cooking, no cleaning, no shopping, no sex.
See how they manage on their own -
parallel says:
Wrong, for men, is equating them to a woman in some way. [] The degradation is comparing them to a woman.
Exactly.
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Sis says:
The pundits are now congratulating Obama for being so savvy to use YouTube for his weekly messages.
Well yah. That’s were his major backers are, surfing through the p*ron and women hating.
He utilized misogyny throughout his campaign, no need to all sonorous like harken back to Roosevelt. Aka cloaking him with the intelligence and fairness of someone else. Just reach over laterally to the Larrys.
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Sis says:
The weaseling around the “hoax”. The going off on a tanget, the backpedalling, the obtuseness. The managing somehow even in 1,000 words to never get to the point–misogyny.
Restrain me. I may spit on the next journalist I see. Or hear.
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Yanni Znaio says:
Lisa says:
I hate the c word. Yes, noble origins, but it even sounds ugly. I think we just need to totally go crazy whenever we hear it. Shame people into being afraid to use it. Speak up speak up speak up!
My point was that if women take that word back, in the same manner as AAs did with the N-word, its power as a means of oppression is diminished.
You see, one tool for taking charge of any given debate is by controlling the language of that debate. The anti 2nd-Amendment groups are especially good at this with technically meaningless but emotionally laden phrases such as “assault weapon” and “crime gun”.
If you control the terminology, you tend to shape the frame of reference for the ensuing discussion.
If the C-word is used in a context without the negative connotations, as in referencing one’s own (or one’s beloved’s) group of body parts, then it gains a non-harmful meaning which helps drive out or diminish the harmful aspects of the word.
Jeez, I sound like freakin’ Chomsky or something.
Again, I’m not telling anybody what they should do, I’m just thinking about things…
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Lisa says:
okay Chomsky, (smile) I get your point, but I don’t think I can refer to my or any of my friend’s c***s in a pleasant and unthreatening way.
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Sergei Rostov says:
I was on a bus full of college students Election Day, and heard a girl behind me telling another girl about her necklace. Seems a friend of a friend had been raped on her own bed, “and he was selling necklaces “to buy her a new bed so she didn’t have to sleep on the bed she was raped on.” (I quote her to show how she emphasized the rape by repetition). Then, a minute or two later in the conversation, she said, “I think Hillary is dumb cunt.” When her friend objected to the characterization, she again said, “I think Hillary is dumb cunt.”
Somewhow, she didn’t see how the two things were connected. :(
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Yanni Znaio says:
jenniforhillary says:
ALL women need to take self defense courses, get concealed weapon licenses and buy GUNS. Next time this man puts his hand on a woman, he should get his COCK shot off….
I understand your anger– violence against women is one of those issues I’m particularly sensitive to. (If you’ve read any of the posts where I told a bit of my history, you know why.) And before I start going off here, I AM A STRONG ADVOCATE OF FEMALE SELF-DEFENSE, AND OF FEMALES BECOMING PROFICIENT WITH FIREARMS.
Now with that having been said:
As one who carries concealed some of the time, let me give you some very serious advice: you’d best be Really Careful There.
You could very well end up incarcerated (a cause celebre, but incarcerated nonetheless) for doing that in the situation you just described.
The situations where the use of deadly force is justified vary greatly from state to state, but a good rule of thumb is that unless you have reason to believe that your or someone else’s life is in imminent danger, then the use of deadly force isn’t justified. You WILL be arrested, and get to experience the judicial system firsthand.
And you shoot to stop, not to kill.
That means center of mass.
And for most guys, it wouldn’t be THERE (although some would like to think it so.) But I digress.
In my CCW course, they told us of a situation in Florida where a concealed permit holder came up on a situation where two white guys were in a gunfight with two Hispanic guys. He decided to get involved and shot and killed one of the Hispanics.
Turned out the white guys were drug dealers, and the Hispanic guys were DEA agents. Earned him a long stint in the Federal penitentiary.
I’m a mellow and laid back person, and when I’m carrying, doubly so.
When carrying, you want to back away from a situation unless you absolutely, positively have no other option except to get involved. In other words, cowboys (or girls) need not apply.
In the bar situation- first of all, I wouldn’t be carrying there, well, because it’s a bar.
I’d have gotten involved, unarmed, and done my best to stop the guy, and, if he wouldn’t stop- I’d have done my best to beat the snot out of him.
And speaking honestly, I might just come out on the worse end of the fight, but I would know that I had done the right thing under the circumstances.
And if anybody with a zip code starting with the digits 194 wants to familiarize themselves with firearms (regardless of whether you plan on owning any or not- I belive that knowing how they work, how to tell if they’re loaded or unloaded and so forth falls into the set of life skills that I think everybody should know which and might save their lives one day), I’d be happy to meet with them at the local firing range after authenticating their bona fides.
And belive it or not, contrary to the stereotypes about gun shops and firing ranges, women are always welcome in such places– as are gays, for that matter.
And gays ARE arming themselves for self-defense. Look up the group Pink Pistols- I wholeheartedly support them in what they’re doing.
There may be a chapter near you (editorial note- this is a generic “you” and not a “you” directed at jenniforhillary- we’re talking self-defense here which is not an area in which I consider preferences to be relevant- funny to be saying that after bringing up Pink Pistols, ha!) Wow. Just looked to make sure the URL was what I remembered it to be- they’ve got a new website up (just looked) with a really good slogan: “Pick on somebody your own caliber.”
And as for women arming themselves for the protection of themselves and their children– Samuel Colt’s revolver was called “The Great Equalizer” for a reason.
Stun guns and Mace are marginally effective in many situations, and calling 911 just guarantees that the person at the other end of the line will be able to hear you getting assaulted/killed before the police show up. But, on the positive side, your last words will be broadcast on the eleven o’clock news.
Last words of advice, if you’re not going to go to the range and practice at least twice a month, then you’re probably better off not buying a firearm.
One trains with the use of a tool in order to become proficient- you wouldn’t buy a piano for your living room and not learn how to play…same thing applies.
Sorry about the rant. We’ll see if it clears moderation. But y’all are intelligent folks, and self-defense isn’t something that should only be discussed on a theoretical level.
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Yanni Znaio says:
yttik says:
Ever seen “Boondock Saints”?
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Yanni Znaio says:
Lisa says:
okay Chomsky, (smile) I get your point, but I don’t think I can refer to my or any of my friend’s c***s in a pleasant and unthreatening way.
I was going to answer this, but it would have fallen under Way Too Much Personal Information.
And I’m still going through the pain of our breakup, which had nothing to do with my use of that word in the manner I so indicated.
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Jean says:
Kudos to everything you said on guns and self defense, Yanni.
On this, I have to disagree:
My point was that if women take that word back, in the same manner as AAs did with the N-word, its power as a means of oppression is diminished.
********Watch a white person use the N word and see how long it takes the any black person within hearing to respond. This “taking back the power” of a pejorative word is fantasy, imo. The pain felt by the black person is still present. The difference between now and forty years ago is that blacks were expected to internalize the pain and tolerate the word then and they’re expected to be angry now when a white person uses the word.
I think that the black community has been diminished by the use of the N word. I think that women who call each other the B word are diminishing women and if another woman ever called me the C word, she might get more than a glass of water thrown on her.
This is a word that needs to die from disuse by decent human beings.
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coolaunt says:
I read this post again today, the restaurant story in particular, and I realize and admit that my focus landed and stayed on the action of the woman who poured the water on the asshole. I think that I was so stunned by that when I read it that the rest of the story fell right past me. So, I apologize to any and all who I offended and for coming out with woman-blaming guns ablazing. (I’m just another product of the patriarchy and it happens sometimes; I’m sorry about that.)
I still strongly urge any and all women not to pour water on sexist asshats. If, however, it’s something that you absolutely must do, please don’t do it within said asshat’s reach. I suggest you do it with a super-soaker. Drench the asshole from across the bar, preferably near an exit, and then run like hell.
Try not to get harmed as you take no misogynist BS.
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Branjor says:
Soopermouse said:
***Or even better, have a fucking strike.
All across America, have one day in which women do nothing. No childcare, no cooking, no cleaning, no shopping, no sex.***That should be women do no cooking, childcare, etc. for males only (OK to do it for females), and on a permanent basis, unless and until men and the world changes. I’ve said this before (not here) and got a reply that was amused, seemed to think I was kidding, but I wasn’t. I said it long before the election season of 2008 too.
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Yanni Znaio says:
Thank you, Jean.
I feared that I went off on a rant about self-defense. But it’s a serious subject, and one that needs to be discussed in cold-light-of-day terms and not just because one is angry about a particular situation.
One must first answer the question of whether one is capable of taking a life in order to save the life of another; that’s “the crux of the biscuit” as Frank Zappa said, and all other considerations fall subordinate to that question.
As for my discussion of the C-word, I was merely suggesting that as a theoretical possibility to be taken under consideration, again, not telling anybody what they should do.
And once again, this discussion board has illustrated the sterling quality of [almost all] of those who post here.
Thank you all. I feel that I am among friends here.
YZ
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Yanni Znaio says:
coolaunt:
You *are* cool, not to mention wise.
(Disclaimer: IANAL*) Technically, pouring water on someone’s head is assault, and, unfortunately, calling someone the C-word isn’t.
So in the cop’s view, and from a technical and legalistic point of view, she committed the first act that was something with which someone could be charged.
Not that that makes the actions of the male asshat justifiable by any means.
But had I been a witness to what took place, I’d certainly have complained to the authorities, not to mention “corporate” if this occurred at a chain restaurant; the owners if not.
The incident should be publicized, and the restaurant should be named. I certainly would not set foot in the place, and I’d make damn sure that everybody that I knew who dines out knew about the incident.
* I Am Not A Lawyer
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coolaunt says:
Yanni, you’re too kind.
And I agree with your assessment of the restaurant story and what actions you’d take or advise taking.
Swearing in public was a crime at one time, at least here in Texas. I think it was charged via a citation that had to be paid, the way driving over the speed limit is. I imagine that, like when you’re caught speeding, if you’re obscene language in public was obsessive, an officer could arrest you and take you to jail to wait to go before a judge. (In tx, if you’re clocked at over 100mph, whether to write you a ticket or put you in cuffs is at the officer’s discretion.) Swearing in public may still be illegal, at least in some places, but we’ve become so desensitized to it nowadays. Sometimes I don’t even notice when profanity is coming out of my own mouth!
Definitely, the bartender should have told those asshats, without any prompting from the women they verbally assaulted, that swearing at other restaurant patrons wouldn’t be tolerated, so no more or leave.
Since the bartender didn’t do his job at that moment, that’s what the manager should have told them instead of going back to the bar stool issue. He/she put the control and power back into the asshats’ hands by asking if they’d share the stupid chair. He/she would have taken and maintained a position of control and power by stating clearly and firmly the bar’s policy that prohibits patrons from abusing other patrons on the premises (even if he/she had to make that policy up as he/she went along). Let them have the damned empty chair if they choose to stop the abusive language and stay. Most likely, they would have chosen to leave, then the women could have had all of their chairs. Either way, the situation would have been neutralized.
Why the manager can’t manage, I don’t know. Tell me if you know the answer to that one.
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Yanni Znaio says:
coolaunt:
Why the manager can’t manage, I don’t know. Tell me if you know the answer to that one.
I can only say that population density is a phrase that has two meanings.
YZ
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julia says:
I asked a man, once, to find a word for men as offensive as bitch. He laughed and said ‘dick. prick’. They are nowhere near as powerful as the ‘b’ word.
There is no counterpart to the ‘b’ word or the ‘c’ word or the ‘w’ word for men.
In Brazilian Portuguese they say ‘escroto’ when they talk about a disgusting man, or a man without morals. Somehow ’scrotum’ doesn’t have that face wrinkling effect in English. -
jdona says:
I am not surprised by the cops reaction, but I am concerned that the school hasn’t apparently done anything over the way that girl was treated. Or have they?
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coolaunt says:
Julia, that’s why I call men “bitches.” Actually, I call them “little bitches.” The truth is that the men I know bitch more than the women I know. The “little” added to it just gives it that extra punch.
What a man hates to be called most is a woman or anything woman-like. Call him a little bitch, a p*ssy, or a girl if you really want the jugular. The same for calling him a f*g or gay because those men are too much like women. It’s not feminist to go that route and I certainly wouldn’t use those words to get at a man or boy whose respect I’m commanding. But for stranger asshats who called me a c*nt over a bar stool, they’d do just fine…along with an exclamation of how easily angered over stupid things men are when they’re on the rag.
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Branjor says:
I read a book recently by a man who referred to various women several times as “bitches” in it. It is too bad because the book was otherwise a real nail biter, a novel about a tsunami hitting the Jersey coast. I crossed out the author’s name on the front of the book and wrote “Mr. Bitch” underneath it.
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Yanni Znaio says:
Julia: Thanks for #84.
I LOVE linguistics, and you just taught me something.
And I promise I will use the word in future conversations.
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Yanni Znaio says:
Violet says:
[snip]
It used to be a common trope that a woman could slap a man or throw a drink in his face, and that was her right as a woman (smaller, weaker, not really able to inflict damage). It certainly didn’t give a man the right to respond in kind. Men aren’t supposed to hit women, period.
That’s how I was raised, and that’s how I still conduct myself.
I open car doors, light cigarettes, and I consider that to be common courtesy.
But I’ll be damned if I’ll put up with a woman who thinks she’s anything less than me.
Period.
Some of y’all might call that cognitive dissonance.
I call it manners.
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Yanni Znaio says:
Sis says:
C*cks*cker.
The best one I can come up with is pencild*ck.
But I’ll concede your point.
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Yanni Znaio says:
Kiuku says:
Well no it is not a matter of self defense because the law clearly punishes women for defending themselves against men.
Kiuku,
I’ll tell you my observations of how cops view what are euphemistically called “domestic situations”:
In the vast majority of cases, even if the woman presses charges, by the time the case comes around to trial, she’s been convinced to not press charges by her abusive SO.
And cops hate dealing with situations where they’re almost absolutely certain that it’s going to be a waste of their time.
I’m not saying this is right, mind you–
but dealing with what they deal with day in and day out (I was on the streets with them) makes you cynical and jaded.
I know this is a subset of what you’re discussing, but, for the record, been there, done that, and it was thirty years ago and I still remember.
YZ
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Yanni Znaio says:
coolaunt says:
Yanni, you’re too kind.
[snip]
Swearing in public was a crime at one time, at least here in Texas
Well, I guess I’m old enough to remember when people were brought up to be mannerly.
I’m going to sound like an old fart, but I see too many adults running around and behaving as if they were two-year olds.
And it makes me want to slap the snot out of them every now and then.
In the South, we would say of such folk, “They weren’t RAISED right.”
YZ
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Yanni Znaio says:
Jean says:
I agree with CoolAunt to a degree on the bar story. The woman was understandably angry and frustrated but she should’ve demanded that the man who called them names be told to leave. If the manager refused, she should have pulled out a pad and started gathering names and contact information from the manager and the other patrons. The implied threat of complaints to the owner, picketing, e-mails notifyiny the media that women were treated disrespectfully in the bar, etc., would have been more effective, I think.
That’s called “fighting smart”, ma’am.
Sun-Tzu would approve of your insights.
YZ
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Yanni Znaio says:
gazzed:
I don’t know how I missed your post.
You rock, ma’am.
Do you train others now?
Best regards,
YZ
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Keri says:
One insult that I witnessed a woman called the b word use was “Oh, look, it’s overcompensating” Guy didn’t even get it until the woman was walking away when he sat there and sputtered “Stupid b-”
I was quite amused how she “cut him down to size”.
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pumatiza says:
Regarding the C word. Do what the Brits do. British woman will just as easily call a man a c**t or even a bitch in fact. It does not have the same connotations as it does in the United States, although it might have started out that way. Just an FYI for how to take the words back, do not allow them to use words against you, take them back and own the language.
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pumatiza says:
pencil dick, dickwad, cocksucker, shit-fer-brains, pea-balls, make up your own words - anything that describes a disfunctional manhood will do the trick, but do not let them own words, take them back and just don’t get mad, get fucking mad and even!
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CoolAunt says:
m Andrea says:
Far too many women think bossing around a clerk is “empowerment”. No, that’s domination when not handled with politeness.*
mAndrea, you’re right. For someone as outspoken and assertive as you or I, it’s really nothing, just another day in the life. However, for women who’ve not had the courage or not been taught how to assert themselves, calling out a sales clerk who’s been rude when they’re actually paid to be polite is a safe place to start on the road to asserting themselves and standing up for themselves.
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julia says:
It’s getting hot in here! :)
Coolaunt, what a good idea, little bitches. I’m almost old enough to start calling men ’son’, which I hope feels condescending to them, but out of respect to male children I just can’t do it. Same with f*g and c—sucker: it’s too insulting to gay men, and homophobia and sexism have the same root.
Yanni Z, thanks for the feedback. Inga Muscio, who wrote the book ‘Cunt’, says that vagina means ’sheath for a sword’. And then states: “ain’t got no vagina here.”
We need words, beautiful, powerful words to describe women’s bodies!
The best insult I can think of for a man is ‘limp dick’.
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Sis says:
“Limp dick”?
Men know how degrading the act is. Even gay men, who have a heirarchy of the giver and the receiver.
“Same with f*g and c—sucker: it’s too insulting to gay men, and homophobia and sexism have the same root.”
If they do, it’s sexism.
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julia says:
You’re right. Gay men are hated, in part, because they are seen as ‘feminine’. That’s why I said that the two come from the same place, the hatred of women.
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cellocat says:
So, I knew someone in college who, when she was harrassed on the street by a bunch of guys in a car who were hollaring at her to come and f**k them, replied with this gem that still makes me laugh: “I’d rather stick a dead fish up my c**t”. They shut up and drove away.
I can’t imagine myself saying that, and I think the word in general is awful, but I have always appreciated that woman’s chutzpah and ability to think on her feet.
I agree wholeheartedly that there are no words for men as bad as words for women. I am not entirely sure that trying to come up with equivalents really helps, though. I’d think that escalation doesn’t usually work.
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CoolAunt says:
cellocat says:
So, I knew someone in college who, when she was harrassed on the street by a bunch of guys in a car who were hollaring at her to come and f**k them, replied with this gem that still makes me laugh: “I’d rather stick a dead fish up my c**t”. They shut up and drove away.
Ick. As brass as I am, I’d not be able to say that, either. I have said to men before that, considering the prospect of having them in my bed, I’d rather hop over into the corner and do myself. And I once told a man I know to be sexually promiscuous and who wouldn’t stop hitting on me that as diseased as I assume him to be, I wouldn’t let him touch me with lead-lined condom. Usually, though, I just stick with my tried and true standby and tell ‘em to fuck off,
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parallel says:
British woman will just as easily call a man a c**t or even a bitch in fact.
Will we really ?
It does not have the same connotations as it does in the United States
Yeah, it does.
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Alikatze says:
I was really depressed today, but, reading this blog helps me feel so much less alone in the world. Thank you, all of you.
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Yanni Znaio says:
Alikatze:
This is a special place, and I am particularly fond of [almost everybody] who posts here.
And I’m a guy, if that matters.
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pumatiza says:
parallel I respectfully disagree.
“British woman will just as easily call a man a c**t or even a bitch in fact.
Will we really ?
It does not have the same connotations as it does in the United States
Yeah, it does.”
I don’t agree, I have heard young British women say it to men and been totally unfazed by it.
YMMV, and it is a term that men will use much more because a lot of women really do not like to use the word undertandably but that is my experience. Also, British men use it to describe other men, not just women.
I guess it is impossible to generalize that much about all British women and your own personal experience I can not dispute but I do think there is a cultural difference imho.
Ultimately, we will not be able to stop people using words we don’t like, so owning them and taking back their power is our only viable option.
From The wiki page (yes it does have its own page!)
“Cunt” is also used informally as a derogatory epithet in referring to either sex, but this usage is relatively recent, dating back only as far as the late nineteenth century.[2]
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pumatiza says:
“just as easily” was too much of an exagerration. My bad, I should have said that some British women will use it although not in polite society.
