Comment of the day
My own, actually. As I said last night:
The rules are different for women than for any other oppressed group. Consider if the shoe were on the other foot: if this were the election of the first (white) woman president, but she’d won by waging a grossly racist campaign against not one but two African-Americans. A campaign where the word “nigger” became the standard term of reference for the two AA candidates. A campaign where the AA candidates were ridiculed and slandered as shiftless and lazy and dumb, where the historic nature of their achievement was completely denied.
In those circumstances, would African-Americans be expected to put all that aside and weep with joy that a (white) woman had finally been elected President? Of course not.
In a patriarchy women are expected to abase themselves utterly. But I don’t play by that rule.
When people are telling you that women ought to be happy for black men right now despite the tread marks on their own backs, think about that.
Is there any other oppressed group of people on earth who are expected to excuse any and all injuries to themselves as long as someone else benefits?
For my part, I just keep thinking of my sisters in feminism from so many years ago, the heartbroken refugees from the Civil Rights movement. It’s true that Martin Luther King’s dream has now been realized. That’s because when King said “all God’s children, black men and white men,” he really meant men. There was no room for women in King’s dream, except as obedient wives and compliant whores.
The dream where women are full members of the human race — that dream hasn’t been realized yet. In fact, I’m not sure it’s ever even been articulated without some men snickering somewhere in the background. And if today’s celebrations are any indication, we’re still a long ways away.
77 Responses to “Comment of the day”
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soopermouse says:
I’m not even mad. I didn’t say up last night late- couldn’t sleep though, and when I got up this morning my partner had that look on his face and the first thing he said was “of course they wouldn’t let a woman get anywhere near that sort of power”.
Sad? Yes. But I’m not angry anymore because I fucking knew it would happen. The moment I saw the media machine aiming at Hillary knew. I believe we all did.But you know what? Today met and spent 30 minutes with the lady Mayor. I work in the City hall building and se stopped me and wanted to know who I was. Apparently she knows each and every employee at City Hall by name, and you know what? She reminds me of Hillary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjula_Sood
Look at the smile
http://www.daylife.com/photo/032hcv1aAx1×5So you know what? Fuck Obama, fuck the Obamazoids, today I will hold my own protest celebration. If you want to join me, celebrate a great woman in this thread ( or maybe Violet will be kind enough to make it a post). Let’s make it the “celebrate a great woman day”
November 5th, 2008 at 9:59 am EST -
Lisa says:
nodding… and whispering under my breath “stay calm…alpacas, alpacas, alpacas”
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atheist woman says:
“Remember, all men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.” Abigail Adams
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madamab says:
This is the right reaction. Riverdaughter was far off the mark this morning, but she is optimistic and forgiving that way.
The Obots are already pre-destroying Sarah Palin in the media. We do, indeed have a long way to go…and I am looking forward to working with you and the New Agenda in order to make it happen.
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quixote says:
Is there any other oppressed group of people on earth who are expected to excuse any and all injuries to themselves as long as someone else benefits?
I’m boggling. I can’t stop boggling. The only time my neurons stop short-circuiting is when I think about something else entirely.
B0 wouldn’t be there without the support of women, tire tracks and all. When are we, women and men, going to stop taking it? (Yes, men too. Men lose by this shit. Everybody loses in an unjust world.) How bad does it have to get? So bad that it’s impossible to dig out?
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Mark says:
Hi All: I am so disillusioned at this point, that it will take me a couple of weeks to recover and find my direction. I tried to push primary reform, make Senator Feinstein keep her promises for hearings (in July, then September)… of course, those Feinstein promises were a sham.
I harped and harped (yah, harped!) as a man who gets what oppression is about and can read it like an expert detective (for reasons I won’t disclose completely — but I know what oppression smells like, acts like, and poses as… it has to do with my own experiences which led to a refugee claim). Of course, as a man, most of the time I just got diminishment statements for my harping on what a bunch of women were not getting.
Oh, well… now what? I promised to get back to my earlier cause (anti-sexism) before I became a Democrat in Exile… so, that is likely where I will be headed in the near future.
There is no chance for “reform” or “investigation” or for truth telling now that the Obamacrats have the power to keep it from happening. I am hopeful that this “benevolent” dictatorship will actually work for the good… but, like I have said many times before, you can’t really call it a democracy anymore.
Take care, stay safe, and keep fighting (above or below ground….)
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soopermouse says:
No
Don’t allow yourself to be overcome by grief
Do this instead
Make your own celebration
Choose a woman
a woman whose achievements make the world a better place
celebrate her today
write a blog post, or if you don’t have a blog,come to mine and leave it in the comments.I.will.not.waste.a.day.on.Obama
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Shane says:
I think its because women are the only social group told constantly that self-sacrifice is worthwhile and necessary, a message that gets reinforced again and again and again, especially in comparison to other social groups. Its like during the primaries—women who supported Obama were good and ‘nuanced’, African-Americans who supported Clinton were Uncle Toms or worse.
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Anna Belle says:
madamab, it is rare that you and I disagree, but we do on RD’s post this morning. It remains to be seen if she continues the work, but I have no reason to believe she won’t based on one post of congratulations to people who played no part in the shenanigans. I think people are entitled to a minute to recognize that without ever forgetting or forgiving what went down, and without quitting the fight.
We know the truth, but you know how it is, and most people don’t, because most people don’t pay that close attention. For those people, including children who are naturally blameless and uninformed, Obama getting elected is a potent symbol of a significant struggle for justice in this country. We know he got there turning MLK’s rhetoric on its head, we know he’s a Bush in DINOs clothing, but the vast majority of voters did not know those things. I can’t begrudge them for their happiness today, especially considering how I would have felt if the shoe were on the other foot. I’d be celebrating to high heaven, and front and center in my mind would be those little girls who saw it happen. Intellectual consistency requires that I observe that dynamic in this case as well. I don’t think it’s a betrayal to acknowledge that, while simultaneously acknowledging the truth of what went down.
FTR, I’m all on board with moving ahead in pursuit of a new feminist agenda. And I’m all for continuing to inform the masses of their folly with this choice they’ve made.
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julia says:
Violet and all feminist commenters:
This is my only home right now. While Eugene, Oregon sets off fireworks and parties in the freezing rain, I walk the dark streets and mourn.
Cynthia McKinney came in 6th - not 3rd or even 4th.
Sixth.
If this isn’t sexism then I don’t know what is.If there were a country that would take me I would go there.
This is the worst election of my lifetime. Now no one will be able to see who the enemy is. We will be joined at the hip with the enemy and think he is one of us.
Can you imagine protests against Obama? I see an end to the already diminishing anti-war rallies and possible race riots - against the protestors.
Obama is a hero to so many in this country, and heros take a long time to fall.When the US invades Afghanistan and Phakistan, who will protest?
They’ll call us racists. Or terrorists.
What this (s)election did is make a truly radical feminist - no wavering, no compromise, no turning back. For the rest of my life.
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madamab says:
julia -
These are my thoughts exactly.
Can you imagine protests against Obama? I see an end to the already diminishing anti-war rallies and possible race riots - against the protestors.
Obama is a hero to so many in this country, and heros take a long time to fall.When the US invades Afghanistan and Phakistan, who will protest?
They’ll call us racists. Or terrorists.
Yupper. This is going to get very, very tough. Obama is an authoritarian and he has a firewall of unthinking, uncritical AA support and the adulation of the corporate media to protect him from any consequences to his actions.
May the Goddess protect us all.
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myiq2xu says:
In the words of Frank Costanza:
“Serenity now! SERENITY NOW!”
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Lisa says:
Laughing… serenity now!
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angie says:
Thank you for getting it right.
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DancingOpossum says:
Ah, but the second part of that phrase was “Insanity Later!!!” LOLOL…anyway a laugh is good at this time of great sorrow. In some ways, this election is worse than Bush v. Gore; the betrayals are multiplied a thousand times, and our outrage seems to reach no listening, let alone sympathetic, ear. Honestly if it were not for sites like this I would have thought I was losing my sanity long ago. Thanks to all of you for helping me know that I am not alone.
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Jadzia says:
Julia –
Hear, hear. I live in Eugene, too. Worse yet, I work at the UNIVERSITY. Am trying veryvery hard to blend into the wall today.
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Pippa says:
It (sadly) will be a long time before I go to Shakesville again after reading today’s nauseating threads. And the patronising, faux-despairing comments from MM about how “radical” all of this election result is, and how we should all be getting that, well. I just throw up my hands. Here is the only good place to be at the minute. Thanks violet.
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madamab says:
myiq - LOL!
I don’t flirt with you like Angie cause I’m married. But you are the greatest and I admire your wit…from a platonic standpoint, of course.
;-)
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Mark says:
Hi Pippa: Couldn’t agree more with what you said about Shakesville… the hyperbole all around, including, at Shakesville, is just plain daunting and intimidating, not to mention misplaced and erroneous.
As if America has changed… only because it was desperate for change. As if it was a conscious choice… you could classify the current revolution as conscious if it had taken place, maybe 8 years ago or so… but, this is only a sign of “when it gets bad enough, Americans finally get it” — that ain’t about thinking (oops, used “ain’t”) — that’s about no choice, that’s about not thinking… that’s about how many times do you have to be hammered before you start to get it?
This isn’t a sign of anything but that Americans don’t change until they have no other choice. This is a sign that when desperate, Americans will vote for something worse than a Republican.
This is a sign of, well, how backwards Americans really are, and how deficient our educational systems really are… hail the god, T.V.!, and pass the hemlock…
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Not Your sweetie says:
Well, as soon as we finish listening to the continuing berating of Sarah Palin, we can get on with it and start ironing Obama’ shirts already! Hallelujah! as the white kids were yelling last night up to 3 AM under my windows.
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Carmonn says:
“The Obots are already pre-destroying Sarah Palin”
For goodness sake, why? They’re going to need her in 4 years, without misogyny, they’ve got nothing. What are they planning instead, putting anti-gay measures on the ballot in all 50 states?
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soopermouse says:
American progressives paid for their liberal guilt with women’s rights
That’s what happened
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soopermouse says:
make that white liberal guilt. My paladin was getting attacked by an ogre :P
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Lori says:
I have a MLK story that is sweet - an encounter a friend of mine had with him in the late fifites/very early sixties.
She and her husband, a physician, belonged to a mostly white church in Illinois that was working on behalf of civil rights. They were hosting a conference and most of the attendees would be black - it was exciting event, and new territory for many of the people of this church who led segregated lives. The conference was scheduled to start at eleven, and the African Americans pastors streamed in - but Martin was not among them. Finally, around 11:30, they locked the doors and began without him.
My friend, being a woman, was not allowed in the conference - but she was a brilliant chef, and she was downstairs catering the lunch. The other women of the church didn’t show up and she was faced with cooking a meal for dozens of people as well as setting the tables. A young African American man came in asking about the conference. she told him it was upstairs but was locked - he left to ascertain that on his own, but came back quickly. “I can’t get in” he said, “Need any help?” She put him to work helping cook, and then they set the tables together. They had a great time talking about church life and talked about the fact that she could not participate in the conference because of gender. I don’t remember his words anymore, but they were kind and thoughtful on the subject - he understood. He talked about oppression and civil rights and tied it to her experience. About that time, the conference broke up and the men came down stairs. MLK’s seat was vacant as the meal began. The door opened, and the young man that helped my friend took his place at the center of the table. She’d spent the morning cooking a meal and setting tables with Martin Luther King Jr. It’s nice to know he wasn’t above setting the table when locked out of a meeting. I’m sure he could have busied himself any number of ways, but instead, he helped someone with a humble task.
True story. Sweet story,
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LadyBoomerNYC says:
Well said, Violet. I think this may be my first visit here–for sure, first time commenting.
I’m feeling a bit numb, but not comfortably. Just letting everything settle in. The Right is also giving Palin her comeuppance.
Had either Hillary or Palin gone to the White House, I don’t see that women would have universally rejoiced and I’m thinking about that, thinking and wondering. My spiritual, progressive friends are elated, Obama’s means to power and background agendas have escaped their horizons. I don’t fault anyone’s celebrations and understand their joy, but am saddened by what they choose to see and what they choose to gloss over or spin.
It’s hard to get moving today or yet declare a direction for myself — besides finally getting back working for money.
Mark, it’s good to see you on here. I wanted to write a goodbye when you wrote your final post, but couldn’t due to closed comments. I’ve enjoyed reading your perspective and hearing your steady voice championing our cause.
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soopermouse says:
I think that’s an urban legend :(
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slythwolf says:
soopermouse, Lori knows personally the woman this happened to. It’s not a “friend of a friend” story.
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Alice Paul says:
“American progressives paid for their liberal guilt with women’s rights
That’s what happened”
sadly yes. Though they really cannot call themselves “progressives” anymore.
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cellocat says:
It’s staggeringly abusive, and totally typical. “We’ve whipped your a**! Now be happy about it!! And if you’re not, here’s some more punishment waiting.”
It’s how my dad operated too; if I refused to smile and be cheerful after coming out of my room following being sent there as punishment, there was more displeasure and more punishment.
It’s like we’re being told that we’re being babies and sulking for having an emotional reaction to the tread marks on our backs, and that, in fact, that we only imagined the tread marks in the first place. Or perhaps they’re really self-inflicted….
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Lori says:
Yeah, my friend’s name is Sunni and she had photos of the event. And my god, could she cook. :)She’s this little blonde thing standing next to MLK.
I remembered more details after writing it out - the weather was horrible and that’s why the women didn”t show up to help and a lot of the men who were to attend the conference didn’t. MLK wasn’t the first one to walk in after the doors locked. But he was the only one who offered to help.
I always thought it would make a wonderful film.
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roofingbird says:
I couldn’t happy, but I was glad those see those Chicago faces last night. Your reaction is perfectly right, Violet. However, as I watched, I was thinking that this election has created a huge bolus of fragmented racial ideology. It was force fed into our guts by sentiment. I have no doubt it’s digestion it’s going to give us diarrhea, once it was forced upon us, maybe the country had to swallow it.
The election was engineered from the start by the DNC. Now that this tactic has been used, it’s theme cannot be managed that same way again. Dreams don’t die, but once accomplished, maybe they leave breathing room for others.
My worry is whether we will have a consistent positive/neutral message and truth in the face of what has been and will be a rewriting. I worry that inconsistencies in our various groups messages now will be problematic later. I worry that what I view as active, well meaning, propagandizing with little, or misleading documentation will hurt. Not on your site, but others.
It’s the blessings and dangers of coalitions. If we are all one big blur, we will be seen as the lowest common denominator.
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Dee says:
I’m heartsick. This should be a proud day in America. But Obama’s bright, shiny victory seems to be blinding everyone to the horrible, dishonorable (and may I say chauvinistic?) way he and his minions attempted to destroy two women whose only desire was to serve. What an absolutely awful experience to go through all that only to see the perpetrator win the prize. No woman in her right mind will ever run for President or Vice President again.
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Kiuku says:
Black women will experience worse Misogyny than they are already and more impediments to their success as a result of this election.
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tinfoil hattie says:
Women as full members of the human race — never in recorded history, in my view.
And, I’m 48 and I don’t think we’ll get any closer to it in my lifetime.
Rev. Jesse Jackson was on NPR today, and was the ONLY person I have heard in the media talking about the oppression of women and how we’ve suffered.
I always like him. I really do.
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madamab says:
kiuku - And black members of the LGBT community as well. It’s just a terribly sad day, although most Americans don’t realize it yet.
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Kiuku says:
I think that..hopefully this will spur Feminism to take back the Feminist movement. Hopefully it will become more obvious that it means more to be a Feminist than to “drink with the boys”, or to get an abortion and that pseudo-Feminists like Valenti, who bemoans “No new governors”, believing that Governors are hatched from Governor eggs, will find no reprise in the sisterhood.
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Kiuku says:
* reprieve
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tinfoil hattie says:
Okay — I don’t mean to rain on the parade (well, except that I do), but after visiting some “progressive” blogs today, I must ask: how can people who are rightfully outraged and saddened and disgusted by Proposition 8 be the same people that are still telling women to get over it?
It boggles.
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roofingbird says:
I agree with you Kiuku, and lol “governor eggs!”
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qaz says:
Rev. Jesse Jackson was on NPR today, and was the ONLY person I have heard in the media talking about the oppression of women and how we’ve suffered.
Well…..it benefits them now to talk about it. sorry.
(it’s what they did after the nomination was stolen from Hillary)
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anonymous female says:
It is difficult to talk about the disparities for women without making it sound like we are diminishing the accomplishment of B. Obama and not recognizing the importance of the vote yesterday. That is not the case, but I am reminded of how long women in this country have fought for themselves, then shelved their own aspirations to fight for other causes, e.g., emancipation, Civil Rights, to name a couple. When in any of our lifetimes will we see women judged by the content of our characters?
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tinfoil hattie says:
Not Jesse Jackson, Jr. His father, who is pretty consistently on women’s side.
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pacific-cali says:
“What this election did is make a truly radical feminist. - no wavering, no compromise, no turning back. For the rest of my life.”
I’m with you Julia. Its precisely how I feel.
From now on its WOMEN FIRST. ALWAYS. -
Lisa says:
WOMEN FIRST. ALWAYS….
I agree, but how many of us does that make? Couple of hundred? How are we going to convince more women to care? To pay attention? how? how? how? …. SERENITY NOW!! -
Cyn says:
On my way to an election, I saw some chose to heal racism instead and They picked words and cadences over hard work and experience.
On my way to an election, I saw some look the other way and They said hope and change and change and hope and hoped it would be there in the end.
On my way to an election, I saw women ripped apart and They said Cunt and Bitch and Bros before Hos and chose to foster inequality of a different nature.
On my way to an election, I saw some refuse to look behind the curtain and They chose to wear the blindfold and were led down a chosen path.
On my way to an election, I saw highly competent and superbly qualified women and They threw them off a bridge in order to make way for The Proverbial Man.
I learned a lot on my way to an election and, for my daughters and my sisters, I will take up that plow and keep going until we get it right.
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JudyR says:
Lori, your story about MLK was wonderful. Truly great people seem to always be humble.
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Violet says:
I’m sorry, but I don’t believe the MLK story. He never tied gender oppression to anything else, because he didn’t believe in gender oppression. He believed women were rightfully the servants of men. Keeping women in the kitchen to cook was exactly what he thought should happen.
Also, he was already quite famous in the late 50s after the Montgomery bus boycott.
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slythwolf says:
How are we going to convince more women to care? To pay attention?
I take my lesson from Taoism on this one. We can only lead by example.
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anna says:
What does everyone think of Janet Napolitano (Arizona gov)as a possible future president?
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anna says:
And also Violet, how dso you know
MLK was sexist? Not doubting you just wondering. -
Carmonn says:
She’s a Democrat with no penis….a bundle of dryer lint will be installed before that happens.
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Violet says:
Biographies of MLK, his own writings, works about him, the memoirs of women in the Civil Rights movement.
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julia says:
madamab, jadzia, pacific-cali thank you for your responses, they mean a lo to me today when I feel so alone.
This morning, a professor of Women’s Studies I work for is all smiles: she’s thrilled with the ‘victory’, she says this is the first president who listens to people. She holds up the newspaper and tells me she thinks he’s cute. All I can say is “what?!”
He listens to people?
Now I just came from hearing Cherrie Moraga speak, and she says she’s elated. I feel like wearing a black arm band, like folks used to do to protest the Vietnam war. I am mourning for all of us, for all women, for all female beings.
How can feminists be against women?
Well, if voting with your dollars works, we can start right now. Can anyone come up with a list of Democratic Party related companies we can boycott?
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Violet says:
How can feminists be against women?
Because they’ve lost sight of feminism.
How can feminists do this? Not only cheer on the slander of Sarah Palin, but participate in it themselves? How can feminists make “Sarah Palin is a cunt” jokes? How can feminists say Hillary is “bitch” or “cunt” who needs to “shut the fuck up already”? How can feminists cheer at the success of the most misogynistic political campaign of our lifetimes?
Feminists Against Women, I call them. FAWs. There have always been women like that (Christina Hoff Sommers, Wendy McElroy) but their ranks have swelled this election.
The good news is that over at The New Agenda, our inbox is overflowing. There are countless women who are looking at the Third Wave twits in their “Sarah Palin is a cunt” T-shirts and going, that’s fucked up. That is NOT feminism.
Lots of women understand very well that we need to re-start the movement and rescue it from the FAWs.
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Mark says:
Hi Lady Boomer: Thanks for saying hi, here. Yep, moving on, but not sure what direction, at least on the activist front. Wishing I had more power and scared to exercise even the little that I have, scared of getting trounced by the bullies… Now that they are in power, who knows what vindictive crap will come about.
Certainly, the plan was get the power, then no one will be able to investigate the fraud. I voted non-incumbent right down the line. I don’t believe for a minute that the Democrats are going to investigate themselves… the plan worked. All you have to do is get elected, any way possible, and then there are no worms that can crawl out of the wood without getting stomped on.
Quite a strategy… like I said before, it takes some kind of strange perfect storm for people to vote for something worse than a Republican.
Lady Boomer: Take care and keep the faith! Thank you for all your great work this primary season!
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Ivory Bill Woodpecker says:
I cannot be bothered to give a flying duck if I AM diminishing Barack Obama’s accomplishment. He and his whole filthy mob of rowdy adolescents [psychological adolescents, not necessarily chronological ones] have a standing invitation to kiss my bitter anti-macho arse and go directly to hell, do not pass “GO”, do not collect $200.
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tinfoil hattie says:
kiss my bitter anti-macho arse
This is my new personal motto
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anna says:
But do you think Janet Napolitano would be a good candidate (has good positions, etc?)
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riverdaughter says:
I’m not here to defend myself. I don’t think my reaction needs a defense. However, it probably needs an explanation.
See, I am Obama’s age and grew up in a period of American history that was defined by race. But unlike a lot of people my age, I also moved a lot. Like, 14 times before I graduated from High School. I’ve been in schools from coast to coast and north to south. I was in Hawaii at roughly the same time Obama was. I attended fully desegreated schools in 1-3 grade, a segregated school in 4th grade, an inner city school in 5th grade and I was bussed to a majority black high school in 11th grade. I have seen what it is like to be just one of the kids, to seeing some of the kids missing, to being the minority student. Maybe I wasn’t one of them but I was not ignorant of the conditions that many african americans were living in.
So, when I saw that sea of humanity at Grant Park, my heart immediately went out to them and all of us. I was there, in the moment, remembering Martin Luther King Jr’s words and seeing the dream fulfilled. We ARE able to look past the color of the skin as a nation and that is a tremendous accomplishment. It was exhilerating. I will never forget it. To me it was like the first footstep on the moon.
What was missing was the content of the character of the person who inhabited that skin and I have to admit that my moment of joy was unclouded because the person who won wasn’t at the podium at the time.
What is sad is that we all should have been able to experience that moment. I think those of us who were not able to feel it will someday regret that that moment was stolen from them because of the nastiness of the campaign towards women and gays. But we should all rejoice when a disadvantaged group of people make giant leaps toward full enfranchisement. I can’t feel bad for them just because it did not happen for me as a woman. I just feel happy as a member of the nation that has come so far in 40 years. And in the internet age, women should be able to do the same in a much shorter period of time. And when it happens, African Americans will be there to cheer us on. I am sure of it.
Maybe what we need is a Martina Luther King. -
Violet says:
I would have no problem supporting Napolitano, just as I would have no problem supporting any woman candidate who wasn’t an insane misogynist. And Napolitano is a Democrat, which is good. I dislike her support for the death penalty and I think she’s too tough on immigration, though people in Arizona think she’s too soft on immigration. Arizona is an extremely conservative state, so I guess she’s doing what is viable. But I hate the border fence and the National Guard and the whole stupid rigamarole.
I don’t know if she would be a feasible candidate for President. She’s widely assumed to be a lesbian and is ridiculed as Manet in Arizona. Given the treatment meted out to Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin, I shudder to imagine what would happen if she ran for President.
On the plus side, she’s very smart and personable and obviously effective at governing across the aisle, so maybe.
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Violet says:
Riverdaughter! Hey, you don’t have to defend yourself. I didn’t take issue with your post.
Personally I don’t see it the same way, even though I’m also the same age as Obama (and you) and grew up with the Civil Rights movement. It’s because for me, the Civil Rights movement was forever tainted by the fact that black women weren’t really included in the whole equality deal. They thought they were, and they tried to believe it, but black men had other ideas. “Free at last” was for the men, and the women were supposed to stay home and obey. That was the dream of the Civil Rights movement: all men first-class citizens regardless of race, and all women second-class citizens regardless of race. Martin Luther King didn’t want to be equal with me; he wanted to be my master.
The history of the women in the civil rights movement who were betrayed and broken by the black male patriarchy has been erased. But I haven’t forgotten. I haven’t forgotten the bitterness of realizing that the dream of “human” equality didn’t include those humans with vaginas.
And it feels exactly the same now, with Barack Obama. Forty years later, and not a goddamn thing has changed.
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qaz says:
Do you really think Obama supporters are going to cheer women on. Only after they have achieved everything first will they give anything to a woman.
BTW: I love your blogs too Riverdaughter.
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samanthasmom says:
Riverdaughter,
I respectfully disagree that AA men will be there to cheer us on if and when we ever get a woman to the White House. Based on what I have read on other blogs and what people in my circle of friends have said, nothing has changed from the 60’s. Black men still believe a woman’s position in society should still be”prone”. (I think many white men believe that, too, FTR.) Perhaps, now that a black man has been elevated to the highest position of power in this country, black women will be able to focus on their gender as an issue. Maybe women of all colors will be able to find a common ground at last. -
qaz says:
As Obama and his supporters have shown us: Men first at all costs (use misogyny to achieve it), then maybe if we are lucky one woman.
I am making a guess Riverdaughter that you are receiving guilt trip emails. Remember these Obama supporters trashed women in the most possible vile way with not an ounce of guilt.
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SKM says:
And when it happens, African Americans will be there to cheer us on. I am sure of it.
Funny, I was just thinking about this last night, though not about AAs but rather men of all races. I tried to imagine the kind of joyous public celebration over a female president of any color that we have over Obama, and instead I envisioned pundits crossing their legs and making nervous castration jokes. I think there would even be public verbal shaming of women celebrating in the streets, if they dared to try.
I think when we finally break this barrier, we will be expected to be quiet about it.
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LV says:
Great post.
I have been repeating this argument so often these past months my throat is sore, and it’s truly amazing to me how many can’t or won’t see it.
I am a white woman who would truly have shed tears of joy to see the first black president, if he or she was a great statesman or woman and had won in a fair fight - even if it was a man who had won over a female rival, as long as it was a fair fight.And comments about Shakesville are spot on. MM and others there had some good stuff to say earlier this election, which has lately just evaporated. I haven’t been there at all since monday, and I’ll give the site a wide berth for at least a couple of weeks to let them calm down.
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Level Best says:
riverdaughter, after all of your work and service, you owe no one apologies for having the generosity of spirit to acknowledge the one good thing that has come out of two hard years of conniving and misogny. All my respect goes to you and Violet.
SKM, you are probably right, but what we need to do over the coming years is to use our power as consumers to pressure for less sexism in the pundits and more women pundits along the lines of R. Maddow. Tweety Bird and his like can be retired if we keep on the networks and their sponsors. Work, women! There’s an awful lot of stench to air out.
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CoolAunt says:
I’m 44 years old, younger than a number of you here but still old enough to remember when all African Americans, men and woman, were openly treated as second class citizens. Even a couple of years ago, if you’d asked me if I believed I’d see an African American president during my lifetime, I would have told you no and, in fact, not to expect to see a black VP any decade soon, either. As much blood, sweat and life they’d put into their fight for equality, winning many battles over the years, they’d many battles left to fight.
At the beginning of this election’s primaries, when it was obvious that it would come down to HRC or Obama on the Dem ticket, and knowing nothing yet about Obama’s policies and absolutely nothing about his misogyny, I was pleasantly surprised, to say the least. After eight years of GW, it was easy to predict that the next POTUS would be a Dem, and this time around that Dem would be either a woman or an African American. “Finally!” I thought, “It’s about damned time.” I thought that, although I’d be somewhat disappointed if it wasn’t HRC because of what that would mean for me/us/women, that it would be balanced or offset by my happiness for what the first black president will mean for African Americans. I was wrong.
I want so much to be happy, joyful even, that the US has finally elected its first black president. I want to be happy for African Americans and what this means to them and for them. I could and would be, too, if the candidacy had been fought fairly, if the candidate hopefuls had campaigned based upon their strengths, abilities, experience and policies. But I can’t be happy for my African American countrymen when their gain was purchased at the cost of my countrywomen. By intentionally, blatantly, publicly and proudly treading over women on their road to equality with their white countrymen, nothing was gained for African Americans, really, when I think about it, because, along with all women, African American women gained nothing and lost much. I have no reason to be happy for African American men that they’ve finally joined the white American boys’ club. Whoopdeedoo for them.
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Jadzia says:
I miss Shakesville, too! But the tone just seems to have gotten increasingly nasty there for the last couple of weeks. I hope things calm down over there, because I would love to go back. But right now I feel like a pariah.
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julia says:
Violet, you are on it! “MLK didn’t want ot be equal with me, he wanted to be my master”.
This is what makes me crazy about Women’s Studies professors who defend race above gender. And women of color who defend sexist freedom movements. And ‘people’s’ candidates like Nader who has a sexist sleezy senior advisor, his personal friend for 30 years.
Freedom for who?
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maggie says:
“Rev. Jesse Jackson was on NPR today, and was the ONLY person I have heard in the media talking about the oppression of women and how we’ve suffered.”
Jackson always seems a bit late in acknowledging sexism. During the Rutgers Women’s basketball incident from the sexist Imus, Jackson jumped head first with screams of racism. But of course, he never bothered to speak with the members of the team.
After the Women’s team met in a private meeting and later addressed the media these brave women spoke regarding their concerns; which centered on the sexism of the Imus comments. It was only then that Jackson and Sharpton amended their media talking points to include sexism.
I do not see Jackson as a friend to women in calling out sexist behavior.
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Alwaysthinking says:
We are so accustomed to being ridiculed for daring to succeed in certain realms that we think we have to apologize or be deferential when we try.
When I watched what was happening to Hillary, with mouth agape, and then to Sarah, I released myself from any of these tendencies. No more! I worked with men and women for decades. I know men are not better than women. They may be wonderful or they may be terrible, but they are not better at any task that I witnessed. Naturally, some are better at heavy lifting (which was in only one job description at our white collar place)but not all are better at that than some women.
So why is there such a fear of women? Why do they deserve the horrible treatment exhibited by the Obama campaign and others?
It is beyond being ridiculous. I told my husband (and this only applies if one is a Christian, I suppose) that I thought if Jesus returned to Earth, he would come as a woman and would not be recognized. After all, he spoke out for the poor and the oppressed. We could use his help now.
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Alwaysthinking says:
May I add one more thing. Men also are not less emotional or less moody. In fact, we used to tease the big boss’s secretary and advise her to put a red or green button on his door so we would know if he was in a good or bad mood that day.
And I have to be the one to calm my husband down or get him out of a moody state.
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K.A. says:
I wanted to thank all the recluses here so much for all the commenting and Dr. Socks’ consistent posts. You people are keeping me sane. You are all articulating my own thoughts here in the thread—MLK, Shakesville, the shit state of affairs, etc.—all of them! I don’t know anyone else who thinks like I do. I thought I got my mom on board with my point of view at least after venting (read: blowing many-a-gasket) throughout the duration of this election cycle, and she decided to vote McKinney with me, but then she said something after Barry won about how “Obama might…you know…uh…do some…” “Do some what, Mom?” “Change.” I STARTED SCREAMING! AHHH!
I am forever in bizarro world. I feel like I should renounce my atheism and start back to church, because the world is so fucking weird right now, surely Armageddon is upon us, lol. I’m only half kidding….
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Yanni Znaio says:
samanthasmom says:
Riverdaughter,
I respectfully disagree that AA men will be there to cheer us on if and when we ever get a woman to the White House. Based on what I have read on other blogs and what people in my circle of friends have said, nothing has changed from the 60’s. Black men still believe a woman’s position in society should still be”prone”. (I think many white men believe that, too, FTR.) Perhaps, now that a black man has been elevated to the highest position of power in this country, black women will be able to focus on their gender as an issue. Maybe women of all colors will be able to find a common ground at last.November 6th, 2008 at 11:18 am EST
Methinks you mean “supine” instead of “prone”.
At least I *hope* so.
:-)
YZ
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Violet says:
I think prone is right.
Ever heard of the rap song “Face down ass up”?
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Yanni Znaio says:
Violet says:
I think prone is right.
Ever heard of the rap song “Face down ass up”?
November 6th, 2008 at 9:10 pm EST
You got what I meant.
And I get what you meant.
Egad, your brain is fabulous.
YZ
