If only the woman had been naked while he was beating her it would have made a cracking good porn film

Friday, September 21st, 2007 · 35 Comments »

Yesterday I came across a comment by Sam Genderberg that was so arresting I asked her if I could quote it here. She was referring to this video, which (WARNING) is very disturbing:

Sam’s comment (just the first part):

Making the blog rounds this week is a video of a man verbally and physically abusing his wife. Feminists are unanimous in their opposition to the man saying to the woman before he physically assaults her:

“Look at me bitch”
“You little slut”
“You enjoy getting your ass whooped, yes you do”
“Stupid-ass heifer”

I watched the video and thought how different the feminist reaction would be if he was raping her while saying all that and worse stuff unacceptable for primetime tv. Then it would be pornography.

Feminists would no longer be unanimous that scenes of him saying all those hateful things to a woman while doing specifically sexual violence to her on film were abuse. Some would defend it as sexual freedom. Some would praise it as transgressive BDSM erotica and therefore pro-woman.

No feminist has expressed they believe it is that woman’s free choice to accept the non-sexual violence and verbal abuse he is throwing at her, so why do so many insist prostituted women in pornography make the choice to be physically assaulted and verbally harassed with:

“Look at me bitch”
“You little slut”
“You enjoy getting your ass whooped, yes you do”
“Stupid-ass heifer”

Most women in pornography are as cowed into submission as this woman was but unfortunately when men call them bitches, sluts and stupid-ass heifers then sexually abuse them on film it’s defended as the woman’s right to allow herself to be called such hateful terms, to accept men slapping her, to make the choice to be choked.

Some of you will read that and immediately say, oh but pornography is a willing performance, this video is a real-life record of a woman who wanted out, mis-matched fruit, etc. Never mind that for now.

Some others of you will read that and immediately say, oh but a lot of pro-porn feminists don’t approve of the really bad stuff, and they don’t approve of women being abused in the porn industry, red herrings circling strawmen, etc. Never mind that for now.

I want you to put those things aside for a moment so I can tell you why Sam’s comment affected me so powerfully.

What Sam’s comment captures for me is the cognitive dissonance I’ve been dealing with ever since I started educating myself about modern pornography. Until that time, my sole exposure to hetero porn was some Playboys and Penthouses from the 70s, and a few minutes of a strange little video called Crocodile Blondee that my gay roommates rented one night as a joke back in the 80s. I assumed that all porn movies were like the scene in Crocodile, with stilted actors engaging in basic coition and trying to look as if they were fond of each other.

Perhaps you can imagine how stunned I was to discover what modern pornography is like. And my reaction to it was, and is, pretty much the reaction the average porn consumer would probably have to a video of someone abusing a child or a dog. Not, I note, abusing a woman, because obviously people who watch modern porn are quite used to that. So I have to say “child” or “dog” to convey the sense of horror I feel, since only a porn-naive person like me could possibly still be horrified by images of women being abused.

Modern porn is shocking to me, in a way it probably cannot be to those of you who have grown up with it, who have been exposed to it throughout your lives — or throughout pornography’s evolution from Crocodile Blondee to BangBros. I’m reminded of boiling frogs.

When I read Sam’s comment, in my mind I substituted “people” for feminists. I was thinking of our entire culture, which has fetishized abuse in a way that boggles my mind. Any cruelty is acceptable now as long as sex is involved; the male orgasm legitimizes everything.

How can people look at videos of women being abused and insulted and humiliated and not see something wrong? When did this become acceptable? When did this become “sexy”? Did the water change from cold to hot so slowly that you just couldn’t see what was happening?

Do you still not see what’s happening?

*****

I want to add one thing — not about pornography but about domestic violence. People always say, “why didn’t she just leave?” This comment at Feministe is the most eloquent answer I’ve ever seen.

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35 Responses to “If only the woman had been naked while he was beating her it would have made a cracking good porn film”

  1. B. Dagger Lee says:

    Good one, Violet, and sam.

    I love that judge. I’ve never seen a man get visibly moved like that by woman-hating and beating. What a lovely man. And he gave the fucker 36 years!

    (I dislike Diane Sawyer though, a lot. I saw her interview the Dixie Chicks, and I remember how Diane acted, and I will never forgive her.)

  2. bright says:

    this is not going to be what you want to hear, but i wanted to say something.

    i do feel it unempowers women to say they can’t choose to participate in degrading behavior, nearly as much as when women are forced to participate in degrading behavior. i can’t set that aside as you’re asking me to do. i don’t deny that some porn stars have had horrific careers, and that a lot of porn is degrading and offensive, but to me, to say all porn is degrading and destructive to women and it’s wrong that it is made, is to take away our adulthood. this argument you’re making, sounds almost identical to the one made by pro-life people against abortion: this is disgusting and offensive and therefore harmful to all the participants. what is it you’re advocating?

    i hope i’ve misunderstood your point and i certainly don’t mean to be contentious. i’m relatively new to your blog so i will be reading more of your writing on pornography to learn more.

  3. Ann Bartow says:

    Dang, I saw Sam’s comment earlier today and was as moved by it as you were. To parse it in a different direction, I’d assert that feminists would be at least close to unanimous in their opposition to mainstream television shows in which women were treated abusively and this abuse was not treated critically at some point in the story arc, even though one could argue that everybody was “only acting.”

    But Sam is correct. Once the clothing came off and the sex started this would be transmogrifed by some into an uncriticizable, and maybe even applauded “exercise of agency.”

  4. Ann Bartow says:

    And while I am here: Bright, one of the missions of feminism as I understand and live it is to criticize and oppose anything that systematically degrades and oppresses women. In my view the glorification and promotion of emotional and physical violence against women certainly qualifies.

  5. The Ghost of Violet says:

    Bright, I don’t know how to make my point any more clearly than I did. I’m sorry, but I’m stumped. It does seem you’ve missed the point, but perhaps you’re just on a completely different wavelength here.

    Let me try this: when you see a video of a 13-year-old girl being anally raped by three men while she screams in pain, or of a woman being forced to wear a toilet seat around her neck while men ejaculate on her and call her horrendous names, do you think, “ooh sexy!”? Because a lot of people do. A lot of people think that as long as it involves sex, it’s fine. People (most people) are still upset by abuse of animals and children, but abuse of naked women is sex-ay. That’s horrifying to me, and symptomatic of a profound sickness in our culture.

    And (to Sam’s point) do you think that a young prostitute who’s making a gonzo porn film for the pimp who’ll beat her up unless she does — you’re thinking she’s “empowered”?

    And do you think that most of the women in the sex industry actually have more practical and psychological control over their lives than the women who stay in abusive marriages?

  6. The Ghost of Violet says:

    even though one could argue that everybody was “only acting.”

    Absolutely.

    I’ve never seen the show 24 but I understand it features a lot of torture, though of course it’s not real torture; it’s just acting and FX. But nevertheless, the fact that apparently a large segment of our public is grooving on thinking about torture is deeply disturbing to me. That’s fucking sick.

    With pornography, there’s the additional enormous fact that the abuse is REAL. There are no stunt doubles or special effects.

    All you have to do is just peruse the BangBros listings or, for that matter, read your porn spam, and you’ll see that American men are getting off on the idea and the images of women being brutally violated, the more brutally the better.

  7. Victoria says:

    Bright:

    but to me, to say all porn is degrading and destructive to women and it’s wrong that it is made…

    I’m having trouble identifying where, exactly, in the above, either Sam or Violet said that. I read them as talking about an overall trend, a phenomenon. As with all trends and phenomena, there are exceptions, variations, ambiguities. Doesn’t mean the trend isn’t demonstrably there. It’s quite palpably there. And, what is more, calling attention to that fact is not to “take away our adulthood,” as you put it, or to deny female agency. (Actually, I think this is a pretty powerful example of female agency right here: in Sam’s and in Violet’s naming the issue for what it is.)

    The boiled frogs metaphor was, I thought, quite apt.

  8. Gayle says:

    Sam’s comment is spot on and I completely relate to your assessment, (ghost of)violet.

    I remember the so-called porn wars of the 80s.(I don’t like that term much, mainly as I remember how the anti-porn feminists were marginalized back then, their side was always misrepresented and demonized). The porn I saw at the time was the nudity featured in the Playboys of the day. Yes, Hustler existed, but everyone seemed to agree it was despicable. Video rentals were just beginning and internet porn didn’t exist, at least as far as I knew. I was somewhat noncommittal at the time, mainly because porn wasn’t all that prevalent, you had to go out of your way to find the hard core stuff.

    Now it’s so much more degrading and violent, and so prevalent, it’s f-ing everywhere! I’m stunned that anyone can support rape porn, torture porn, the gonzo degrading shit. . .

    I remember attending a lecture back in college in the late 80s and hearing an anti-porn feminist warn that technological advances would push pornography into the mainstream and that porn would get more degrading and more violent as people became desensitized to it. I wish I could remember what her name was– everything she said has turned out to be true.

  9. Ann Bartow says:

    Somewhat of a non sequitur, but possibly the dumbest and most dishonest Op-Ed I’ve ever seen in The Nation is this one:
    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010226/cromer

  10. The Ghost of Violet says:

    Oh, great. A porn advertorial disguised as an article. Aren’t they supposed to put something like “This is an advertisement” at the top? Or is that only for weight-loss products?

  11. The Ghost of Violet says:

    Well here’s a coincidence. Alternet has a piece today on this whole issue, with an excerpt from Robert Jensen’s new book:

    http://www.alternet.org/sex/62833/?page=1

  12. Ann Bartow says:

    I’m pleasantly surprised. One can at least hope a few of the Supposedly Liberal Doods might pause for a few moments and consider Hazen’s current thinking about porn, and maybe even pick up Jensen’s book.

  13. The Ghost of Violet says:

    Don’t read the comments! A few people get it, but there’s the usual contingent of Liberal Doods spouting the usual half-wit notions.

    My favorite: porn doesn’t contribute to misogyny. It has no influence whatsoever on anybody, it’s just a passive mirror, thus making it unique among human cultural institutions. Amazing!

  14. Ann Bartow says:

    I didn’t even realize there WERE comments, so stupidly I disregarded your advice and went back and scanned through them. Some are quite vile. Unlike Hazen’s spin on Jensen’s book, no surprise there.

    On a almost completely unrelated note (unifying theme is: what is wrong with people?) my friend N. and I were walking our dogs, when we were attacked by a large loose aggressive dog, snarling and snapping. Its owner just stood there as we stamped our feet and yelled at the dog to intimidate it into backing off. N.’s dog is very timid and mine is nervous and old. They didn’t need this shit. Neither did we, we count on walking our dogs as a way to unwind, not freak us out. When the owner finally got the big angry dog under control he yelled at us for overreacting, claiming his dog was “just a puppy who wouldn’t hurt no one.” Double arrgh.

  15. Theriomorph says:

    Another excellent post, and so glad to read Sam’s comment.

    Let me try this: when you see a video of a 13-year-old girl being anally raped by three men while she screams in pain, or of a woman being forced to wear a toilet seat around her neck while men ejaculate on her and call her horrendous names, do you think, “ooh sexy!”? Because a lot of people do. A lot of people think that as long as it involves sex, it’s fine. People (most people) are still upset by abuse of animals and children, but abuse of naked women is sex-ay. That’s horrifying to me, and symptomatic of a profound sickness in our culture.

    After immersing in research into the sex industry (which has nothing whatsoever to do with an extremely privileged and minuscule minority of women ‘freely choosing’ their sovereign experience), I came to the conclusion that to engage in a useful conversation about porn, people must first watch it, and understand what it is that is being discussed, and hear some of the stories from women who said their experience was consentual and ‘empowering’ at the time of making the porn who later disclosed that their abuser made them do it, etc before a worthwhile conversation can be had.

    Also, a basic agreement that it is possible to be simultaneously pro sex and anti industry;

    pro self-determination and freedom of expression and simultaneously anti abuse;

    that the mass eroticizing of abuse has real consequences to real women, and is not, in fact, ‘fantasy,’ (as an earlier pioneer in this work said, but we can’t name her of course, because she is so hated, so Jewish, so ‘fat,’ so ‘crazy’ that to associate with her in any way is to destroy our own argument, damn this feminist movement sometimes, I swear to god)

    and I could go on and on and usually do but try to limit it at least somewhat to my own blogular living room.

    This is all to say, Dr. Socks Who is Spirit, thank you for writing about this.

  16. The Ghost of Violet says:

    Theriomorph, your comment is so wise and true that all I can do is nod agreement on everything.

    And now: Andrea Dworkin, Andrea Dworkin, Andrea Dworkin! DAMMNIT!

  17. Theriomorph says:

    : )

  18. Theriomorph says:

    Here is the quote I was thinking of in its entirety, by the way – found it in my files:

    “People talk about pornography as a form of fantasy. They actually talk about prostitution as if it were an exercise in fantasy. And it is part of the pornographers’ effort to hide what they really do in real life–to encourage the word fantasy in place of actual behavior that really happens in the real world. I mean, a fantasy is something that happens in your head. It doesn’t go past your head. Once you have somebody acting out whatever that scenario might be in your head, it is an act in the world, it is real. It is real behavior with real consequences to real people. And so it has been a very brilliant part of the pornographers’ propaganda campaign to protect pornography by characterizing the industry as an industry of fantasy. In fact when you have that Asian woman hanging from a tree, you have a real Asian woman and she is really hanging from a real tree. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with fantasy. It has to do with a human being actually having happen to them what we see has happened to them. And I think it is just the most extraordinary insult to the human conscience to continue to characterize these real acts to real people as if they only exist in the head of the male consumer. And what that means is: his head, his psychology, is more important than her life.”

    –from the video Against Pornography: The Feminism of Andrea Dworkin produced by the BBC, 1992.

  19. The Ghost of Violet says:

    What an amazing quote. What an amazing woman she was.

    I think the very lifepath of Andrea Dworkin serves as an index to how sexism/patriarchy shapes our lives. This woman, as brilliant and original as her contemporary Foucault, as gifted in her words as, well, anyone — is reviled because the content of her thought threatens men’s privilege and because she, herself, was about as far from the fuckable norm of womanhood that modern Westerners can imagine. That really says it all, doesn’t it?

  20. B. Dagger Lee says:

    Reminder: Dworkin’s Intercourse is being discussed at IBTP forum, beginning on October 15th.

    I think the format is a thread for each chapter.

    Be there, or be square.

  21. Ant says:

    I’d forgotten how sane the internet could make me feel since Twisty’s been quiet. I don’t understand how anyone could read this and not get what you’re saying, you’ve distilled it so clearly. But I know that most people could, somehow. Pretty frightening.

  22. The Ghost of Violet says:

    Thank you, Ant. I really appreciate that.

    Yes, Twisty is still shopping her ass off, it seems. Well, she deserves a break.

  23. Theriomorph says:

    Hey, thanks for the head’s up, B. Dagger Lee. And seconded, Ant.

  24. Bill says:

    Hi, GOV:

    Nice post. Like you, I’m puzzled by how things got to this point. Perhaps I’m naive, but back in the 50′s and 60′s when I grew up, this sort of thing (sex as an asault on women) didn’t seem to be around (again, I might be terribly naive). The question is: Is this a new phenomonen, or has it always been around? Has it evolved due to our de-sensitivity to violence (which I don’t think can be doubted)? Why do men now seemed turned on by degrading situations? Have they always been? What happens in other cultures? Is it a world-wide thing? Generalizations are not good, but I’m interested in opinions about how we got to this point. The degrading stuff creeps me out – I don’t understand the allure.

    Sorry for all the questions, but I’m really puzzled by this one.

    “Learn me”, please.

    Bill

  25. The Ghost of Violet says:

    Well, the best I can figure, from researching the history of modern pornography and so forth, it’s evolved as a kind of feedback loop of ever-more-shocking material. Naturally there were a few people in the past who were excited by that sort of thing, but the mainstreaming of it is a result of modern exposure and reinforcement.

    I was reading just yesterday about the adult movie houses in Times Square back in the 60s, and how at that time the men in the audience would scoff at anything onscreen other than missionary position intercourse. That was “normal” sex, and any deviation (like oral) would get shouted down as freaky. Gradually this changed, as movies more and more showed oral sex, etc., and so by the 70s “normal” sex (to the guys at the XXX theatre) had evolved to include four basic acts: man-on-top, woman-on-top, cunnilingus, and fellatio.

    With the move to video, and then especially the move to internet, the evolution of porn speeded up rapidly. Porn producers kept trying to come up with new stuff, more kinds of sex, more outrageous stuff. They’re still doing that; gonzo producers say they’re at the point of racking their brains to reach new heights (or lows) of shock to draw viewers in. And customers, of course, became more and more inured to whatever is out there, more jaded, more eager for fresh shocking thrills.

    This has happened overall with the industry and the customer base, but it also happens individually within the life of each porn consumer from the time he starts seeing the material. You know, if a guy starts jerking off at age 12 to images of a woman being called “bitch” and “slut” and so forth, that’s normal to him. And then the next step (making her kneel and beg, etc.) gives him no trouble. And then the next step after that, after that, after that, after that — until the modern guy has no qualms at all about watching a teenager be anally raped and pissed on. His capacity for empathy is simply gone. The women in the porn videos might as well be CG figures for all he cares.

    But there’s a deeper question there, as to why pornography has evolved in that particular direction, of being ever more degrading and abusive to women. I think it simply must be a reflection of the misogyny that still lurks in our culture. Males are still trained from birth to revile the feminine, and even men who are raised to be enlightened human beings are still awash in a culture where “girly” and “pussy” are synonyms for “inferior.” Obviously some men have a much worse case of woman-hating than others, but maybe they’re the ones making the porn films and selling them to everybody else.

    Other things which may also be at work: does the smoldering resentment against feminism make men more likely to express their antagonism to women in this way? Does the potential for this kind of thing always exist within men, some kind of crossing of the testosterone wires that spark both sexual desire and the urge to dominate? (I don’t know.)

  26. Infidel says:

    The Guiness World Book of Records has a guy with an unbelievable amount of ciggarettes in his big mouth, it is a black and white photo, probably taken in the sixties, perhaps some day, some big mouth will be able to fit just one more ciggarette in their mouth. TwoThousandAndSeven may be the year the youngest girl gets penetrated by the most penises. The largest hot dog ever. The most home runs. The biggest airplane. The fastest car. Competition drives the future to outdo the past, never mind the waste, the misogyny, the consequences. A movie that suggests a car crash rather then spend a hundred thousand(one hundred thousand) dollars on a spectacular collision with real automobiles and even an explosion all carefully plotted out by experts any more will flop. Expect more. Corporations are about growth, not merely continuing as is, but more, more market share, bigger dividends, re-investing, greater profits, expanding into other lucrative and fertile fields. Oh no selling fetuses will never ever happen, no one would ever do that. The Beatles are to blame- they came over here with their English invasion and filled our youth with ideas about not cutting their hair short and listening to Indian gurus, finding nirvana, taking drugs, and shaking their hips. They wouldn’t let us control them then and now their wondering why they have to put up with gonzo smut. Tom Lehrer and his “Wizard of Oz…there’s a dirty old man!” made us laugh then, but now we see he was making light of a very serious, very destructive force- evil, licentiousness, lewdness. There should be a law.

  27. bright says:

    whoops! i didn’t come back for a while and it seems like some people were trying to explain it to me. i’m honestly curious about this stance because i consider myself a feminist. i’d like to keep this conversation going if possible, so i’ll answer what some other commenters have said…

    Anne:
    “Bright, one of the missions of feminism as I understand and live it is to criticize and oppose anything that systematically degrades and oppresses women.”

    the missions of feminism as i understand it are to promote equality and freedom for women. and i believe part of freedom is free speech. i won’t ban any speech or art because of its content because it’s wrong.

    Violet:
    “Let me try this: when you see a video of a 13-year-old girl being anally raped by three men while she screams in pain, or of a woman being forced to wear a toilet seat around her neck while men ejaculate on her and call her horrendous names, do you think, “ooh sexy!”? Because a lot of people do. A lot of people think that as long as it involves sex, it’s fine. People (most people) are still upset by abuse of animals and children, but abuse of naked women is sex-ay. That’s horrifying to me, and symptomatic of a profound sickness in our culture.”

    well no, i don’t find that sexy. i’ve never seen any of these 13 year old rape videos. aren’t those already illegal? and yeah, that is horrifying. so what are you suggesting? that’s what i was asking you in the first place.

    “And (to Sam’s point) do you think that a young prostitute who’s making a gonzo porn film for the pimp who’ll beat her up unless she does — you’re thinking she’s “empowered”?”

    no. i don’t. and that’s why i said that it mattered if she chose it or not. obviously that isn’t a choice. but i also can’t say all porn is made like that. i literally don’t know what you’re trying to advocate in writing this.

    let me just say, we have laws about prostitution and assault and rape. and we have a society that objectifies women far too much. however, we also have a society that combats “obscenity” with people like edwin meese, who goes after people like mapplethorpe.

    “And do you think that most of the women in the sex industry actually have more practical and psychological control over their lives than the women who stay in abusive marriages?”

    no. but i also don’t think police should just go kicking everyone’s doors in because a few of are in abusive marriages and a whole lot more of us are just married. most of the sex industry should be more regulated, but again, i don’t know if that’s what you’re aiming for…

    thanks for replying.

  28. bright says:

    Victoria (sorry i gave you an e above Ann!):

    “I’m having trouble identifying where, exactly, in the above, either Sam or Violet said that. I read them as talking about an overall trend, a phenomenon. As with all trends and phenomena, there are exceptions, variations, ambiguities. Doesn’t mean the trend isn’t demonstrably there. It’s quite palpably there. And, what is more, calling attention to that fact is not to “take away our adulthood,” as you put it, or to deny female agency. (Actually, I think this is a pretty powerful example of female agency right here: in Sam’s and in Violet’s naming the issue for what it is.)

    The boiled frogs metaphor was, I thought, quite apt.”

    that’s why i asked if that’s what she was saying or not and attempted to make abundantly clear that i didn’t get her point. i still don’t know what she’s saying. what trend? are you trying to articulate that porn is now more violent than it was? in a sense, i think all our media has gotten more violent, so i don’t know why porn should be absent from that trend.

    but in reality, society is less violent even if our media is more violent. so, i still wonder what you guys are getting at here.

  29. bright says:

    wow. thank you violet. i understand what you’re getting at much better after reading the jensen article. but now i’m at a loss. i still don’t know what’s to be done:

    “we should listen to and respect those voices, we also know from the testimony of women who leave the sex industry that often they are desperate and unhappy in prostitution and pornography but feel the need to validate it as their choice to avoid thinking of themselves as victims.”

    how do we as a society help the people in this industry who are victims, if they don’t even conceive of themselves as victims? i can’t trust our legal apparatus to be so proactive. i consider myself darn near a socialist, but i am deeply afraid of empowering our government further in the realms of speech and sex. thanks for your insights. i appreciate your patience.

  30. piercedpixie says:

    I know you won’t believe it, but SOME women do like to be treated that way during, and only during sex, and ONLY with prior consent and ONLY within their own limits, which may seem too far and like abuse to you….but it isn’t abuse, unless the woman HAS been sold, coerced, threatened etc.

    And that is wrong, but if that hasn’t happened…it is not abuse!It just looks like it.
    And isn’t solely for the purposes of men’s arousal, but women’s as well.

    and those women are drawn to an industry which means they can make money out of doing that.

  31. piercedpixie says:

    also, you seem to think “normal” sex is somehow changing….but it’s just becoming more ok to talk about it….the BDSM scene has always been a busy place, but previously people were afraid for saying that’s what they liked…
    these days it is more acceptable to say that sometimes you like certain things…

    I don’t mean to take away from you the right and just cause of helping women who need help…I am an active member of a group that does just that…I just wanted you to open your eyes and not tar all women with the same brush.

    I beieve the answer to stop exploitation/abuse non-consent etc, only comes from public awareness, and the willingness to change their shopping habits to companies that look after their stars…

    in much the same way that these days all supermarkets want to supply us organic goods, local produce, heathier alternatives, ecologically sound alternatives…

    I hope i haven’t offended anyone, I just want you to see that porn as in all industries is a huge spectrum of different types of people and practices.

  32. The Ghost of Violet says:

    I know you won’t believe it, but SOME women do like to be treated that way during, and only during sex, and ONLY with prior consent and ONLY within their own limits, which may seem too far and like abuse to you

    Of course I know that sadomasochism has a long history. It didn’t just spring into existence 20 years ago.

    but it isn’t abuse, unless the woman HAS been sold, coerced, threatened etc.

    And what is your assurance that the woman in a porn video you’re watching hasn’t been sold, coerced, or threatened?

    and those women are drawn to an industry which means they can make money out of doing that.

    No, that is an apologetic fallacy created by the porn industry and eagerly embraced porn consumers. I’m sure there are a few women in the industry who chose it as a career doing what they genuinely love, rather the way people go into entomology or physics, but their number is probably the same as the number of women who become prostitutes because they’re nymphomaniacs who long to fuck 20 strange men every night (another fallacy, an old patriarchal one).

    also, you seem to think “normal” sex is somehow changing….but it’s just becoming more ok to talk about it….the BDSM scene has always been a busy place, but previously people were afraid for saying that’s what they liked…

    Mainstream sex is changing. It is certainly true that more people now are free to indulge desires that they would have repressed in an earlier age, but that only accounts for a small number of new BDSM participants. It’s a fallacy to imagine that human desires are static throughout time and only require loosening of social codes to flourish. Human desires change in response to culture. We are cultural animals. Two hundred years ago, men weren’t secretly longing to have anal sex with size 0 models with no body hair while listening to hip-hop blasting on their iPods.

    If human desires weren’t plastic and shapeable in response to stimulus, the advertising industry wouldn’t exist.

    I beieve the answer to stop exploitation/abuse non-consent etc, only comes from public awareness, and the willingness to change their shopping habits to companies that look after their stars…

    I do agree with you that the answer is public awareness, and so I would recommend that you read up on how the pornography industry actually works and about the lives and experiences of the women involved.

    You could start with oneangrygirl.

  33. Kiuku says:

    BDSM could be a response to the abuse inflicted on women and oppressed people in our society..The eroticization of abuse. Sure it’s the only way some people get off. Some people get off on rape porn and murder porn. Doesn’t mean it is right.

  34. Kiuku says:

    You know I’m going to stop calling it rape porn or following it with porn because that seems to legitimize it, what it actually is. I’m going to call it “Men getting off to depictions of rape” or “men getting off to depictions of murder” instead of rape porn and murder porn. All porn is rape porn anyway.

    The point though is this is the dialogue in porn. This is what men get off too. This is men’s dialogue about women.

  35. m Andrea says:

    Did anybody ever answer Bright?

    Personally, I don’t care whether a dog chooses to eat shit or it’s master forces it to eat shit. I care that the dog is eating shit and I’d like it to stop.

    But by all means, lets play “distract the referee with stupid pointless questions so that the assholes can continue playing the game”.