Who hates who?
Now after hearing a lot about you from our American brothers, I strongly believe that each of you feminists deserved to be anal-fucked and gang-raped and then we will cut your boobs and empty whole magazines of 16 bullets into your vaginas. Then post live digital videos of the rape+executions on all men’s sites around the world for our AAA entertainment.
Misogyny. It’s thousands of years old. Men are human, women are sub-human chattel. Beasts of burden. “Women are our natural slaves,” said Napoleon. “God gave them to us to serve us.”
Women denied citizenship, denied humanity. Denied souls. Women mutilated. Women raped, then buried in sand up to their waists and stoned to death for the crime of being raped.
Misogyny is a lot rarer in some places nowadays, except of course for those laws denying women control over their own bodies, and the death threats against women who have used contraception, and the rapes that go unpunished because the woman must have been asking for it, and the crazed killers who dream of torturing and murdering girls and then go out and do it.
But here’s the funny thing. When feminists say (and this, basically, is all feminists ever really say, this is the whole enchilada right here) — Enough! Enough of this! Enough of the raping and the enslaving and the oppressing and the hating! — you know what they hear in response?
“Why do you hate men?”
28 Responses to “Who hates who?”
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Chris says:
and this, basically, is all feminists ever really say,
Well, that and slagging on each other.
October 8th, 2006 at 10:54 am EST -
StarWatcher says:
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Chris — does any group of men, anywhere, agree with each other 100%? But you, in your infinite wisdom, decide that feminists aren’t — what, sincere? bevievable? — because they don’t agree 100% with each other. That makes you a misogynistic fuckwit.
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Violet says:
StarWatcher, your mistake is understandable since you obviously don’t know Chris, but he’s no misogynist. He’s a feminist blogger himself and a regular on quite a few feminist blogs. His comment above is just a little wry humor.
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Chris says:
I think that’s an argument from authority, Violet.
For the record, StarWatcher, my comment was generated by seeing what seems to be endless weeks of increasingly nasty arguments among feminists I greatly respect and occasionally — as is the case with our host here at the Reclusive Leftist — love with a secret but abiding passion. No comparison with men, positive or negative, was intended. In fact, the very notion that any statement about women must necessarily imply a comparison with men is somewhat problematic.
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Auguste says:
But Chris, in England, “slag” is a misogynist insult.
Q.E.D.
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Amanda Marcotte says:
Chris, why do you have to be such a misogynist cunt, always getting your panties in a wad?
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Auguste says:
By the way, Violet:
Excellent post.
Can’t possibly think how we got off on the wrong track.
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StarWatcher says:
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My apologies, Chris and Violet Socks. You’re right; I missed the sarcasm. Could be I’m just a weee bit oversensitive, watching what BB is going through lately. I’ll try to be less hot under the collar next time.
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Chris says:
No worries, StarWatcher. Watching what BB is going through is enough to make me call Robin Morgan a misogynist fuckwit. What a horrible deal.
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Paul Tergeist says:
BB is having problems and the feminist solution is to blame men and call names. Of course, the feminist solution to ANYTHING is to blame men and call names but not to accomplish anything.
It seems to me that at least a FEW of the idiots who gave BB the runaround in the first place were women. Am I wrong, or did the Goddamn Christer Fundie women in Iowa have as much to do with it as the patriarchy?
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ginmar says:
Huh. Where did that misogyny come from in the first place?
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Infidel says:
From a place in the heart; in the essence of being; from deep within the self which springs forth from the wells of perception; from inspiration, teaching, feeling, hearing, seeing; from the toes up through the knees bending one way, up through the groin, feelings of weightlessness, the gut, the chest, the back of the throat, the eyes; the mind, ringing between the ears, tinnitus; from all that is good, from what feeds us, from the start all the way to the present, from you- all from them- all from it and when and wind and storm and sea crashing on rocky shores. Oh! where did “That” mysogyny come from? No clue.
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manxome says:
VS, why do you hate hate?
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Rob G says:
Paul, are you serious mate? The Goddamn Christer Fundie women in Iowa are part of the patriarchy.
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Violet says:
Paul, either you didn’t read the post or you’re deliberately trying to illustrate the point of the post.
I was prompted to write by the letter to Feministing (the link) and the subsequent discussion there about misogyny, with reference to the wave of torture/murders in America, the Congo rape war, the women scheduled to be stoned to death for being raped in Iran, and the death threats against BB. Misogyny is, as I said, thousands of years old and still with us. I don’t know where it comes from.
The funny thing is that whenever feminists demand that it stop, somebody comes along and accuses us of hating men.
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Mandos says:
“The funny thing is that whenever feminists demand that it stop, somebody comes along and accuses us of hating men.”
This usually happens in a particular context, though. I’ve never seen this response given after “men who rape should stop raping” statements. No one wants rapists to rape, that’s like wanting to beat puppies or something.
It’s almost always given when we talk about the borderline cases where there is/appears to be wiggle room. Date rape (as distinguished from random stranger rape and war rape) and divorce, for instance.
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Violet says:
Mandos, feminists have been accused of hating men for as long as there have been feminists. No particular context is necessary, and the charge far predates modern discussions of divorce and date rape.
Even today it’s not uncommon to introduce oneself as a feminist and be immediately asked, “Why do you hate men?”
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Mandos says:
“Mandos, feminists have been accused of hating men for as long as there have been feminists. No particular context is necessary, and the charge far predates modern discussions of divorce and date rape.”
True: I guess I’m confining myself to standard internet tropes. But, you know, in every generation there’s a different set of borderlines. In this generation, the borderlines are, among others, child custody and certain classes of acquaintance rape. In previous generations, it would have been women working outside the home at all (leaving men with messy homes or something). Of course, there’s some generational overlap.
“Even today it’s not uncommon to introduce oneself as a feminist and be immediately asked, “Why do you hate men?””
Ah, but wanna bet that some of the people asking this are thinking about custody. “What? She wants to steal men’s children?”
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Infidel says:
I’d like to respond to “enough”, and it goes something like the Who song- “there once was a note…listen” over and over rising to a crecendo “There Once Was A Note…Listen” I mean yeah I’d like to know more, cause I’m alot more sensitive to patriarchy “THERE ONCE WAS A NOTE…LISTEN” and although mysogyny is still just a form of mysanthropy to me “There once was a note….listen” fade to black
Black like, I’m a racist too. -
Burrow says:
It’s because secretly we’re all hairy legged prudish man haters.*
Oh no wait, that’s just me.*
Wait…..I’m not a prude. I don’t hate men. Shit.
I love people, as a whole, and am trying to make the world better yet everyone tells me I hate men.
*joke people.
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ginmar says:
So….date rape isn’t included in rapes with wiggle room? Wow, how conveniant.
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Mandos says:
“So….date rape isn’t included in rapes with wiggle room? Wow, how conveniant.”
Note that I said, “appears to be”. You see on the internets very little argument about random violent rape, but lots about pinning down what date rape means. No? I’m not saying that there *is* wiggle room, but that culture currently perceives there to be a borderline there. It had other borderlines in the past.
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gordo says:
Amanda–
Any woman who would wear this has no right to call anyone else a misogynist.
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cicely says:
Mandos, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard or read women say something like ‘I believe in equal rights for women (or whatever), but that doesn’t mean I hate men’, just to deal with the comment before it’s even made, it’s so expected. No particular issue or context is required to provoke it. It’s as common as the idea that feminists don’t have any sense of humour. They’re the twins of dismissal and avoidance. Hearing these comments over and over again is the feminist condition, or has been over my lifetime. The third most common qualifier is “I’m not a feminist, but….’ and this is also mostly said to avoid the accusation that one hates men, since being a feminist and hating men have long been one and the same thing in the minds of many.
The one that gets me is, while the blood is on the hands of their own sex, men will still trot out that old chestnut ‘Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned’. (Not in my company twice.) Yeah, tell that to the women who’ve taken the biggest risk a woman can take by leaving a violent man and having to hide away while he chases her down with the intention of killing her because she’s dared to scorn him in this way.
Reversals/denials/dismissals/avoidances. Sometimes I’ve been known to actually utter the words ‘I hate men.’ It’s seemed like the only appropriate thing to say at times. But actions do speak louder than words. The blood’s on their hands but my words convict me? I don’t think so.
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cicely says:
Oh, I should add that my words don’t ever go along the lines of ‘I’d like to cut off your dick and stuff it in your mouth and shove a red hot poker up your ass etc, etc etc for my AAA entertainment.’ My simple words are in response to what men do to women, not because men dare to exist and want full and autonomous lives.
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flawedplan says:
I’ve been frustrated by this too.
People accuse feminists of hating men as a way of dismissing them. But I don’t want to dismiss my accuser regardless of how annoyed I am, I want to be heard, and I don’t want our conversation to be about how much I hate men. So when someone accuses me of hating men I tell the truth, I don’t, I’m angry at them.
But I used to hate men (and women too), and if I still did I would say so if asked. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with feelings, denying them makes you crazy.
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ginmar says:
Appears to be? Sad that it’s a radical idea to take common, normal every day rapes seriously, you know.
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gordo says:
flawedplan–
That’s a good point. I’ve only met one or two genuine manhaters in my life (I’ve certainly known a lot more woman haters). But I’ve also known a few who were angry at men in general, but willing to be openminded about individuals. And I’ve known a lot of women who were deeply distrustful of men. That distrust was often misinterpreted as either snobbishness, anger, or hate.
ginmar–
I didn’t think Mandos was saying that date rape may or may not be wrong, but I don’t think that it really matters, either. It’s usually not hard to see the misogyny in the comments made by the people who perceive “wiggle room” in cases of date rape.
Mandos–
You won’t find many anti-semites who say that the Holocaust was OK. Instead, they say things like, “there appears to be some doubt as to whether the Nazis were really responsible for all of those deaths. How many died of typhus? And the 6 million figure seems too high to be realistic.”
I’m not saying that you’re a misogynist, or the equivalent of a Holocaust denier. I’m just saying that putting a bit of wiggle room into your assertions doesn’t get you off the hook.
Frankly, I think that most men who discuss subjects like rape on feminist websites should be a bit more sensitive. Remember, the people you’re discussing the subject with are very often victims of rape.
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