Everybody loves to talk about sex!
Especially if they can be anonymous on the internets.
In the wake of the Blowjob Shitstorm, Bitch Ph.D. decided to create an explicitly non-judgmental space for people to talk about their sexual preferences. Unlike Twisty, Dr. B. is not asking people to blame the patriarchy, and the better-feminist-than-thou nonsense of the late shitstorm is expressly discouraged. The idea is just to let people talk honestly about what they like and dislike. There’s a thread for straight women (which also serves as an introduction to the whole discussion), a thread for lesbians, and a thread for straight men. (Gay men are SOL.) No men are allowed to post in the women’s threads and vice versa.
It’s fascinating stuff. I read the guys’ thread all the way through — naturally, since I’m a straight woman and I’m always curious about how men really feel. I’ve skimmed most of the comments in the straight woman thread and will check in on the lesbians next.
47 Responses to “Everybody loves to talk about sex!”
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flawedplan says:
I’m heading over there to look at the men too, fingers crossed that I won’t be disappointed. That blowjob shitstorm was something else, I believe I even said things I knew I’d regret, four letter words and knowing I was pushing into irrationality, but not fecking giving a flip. Good to see things calming down.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:59 am EST -
Victoria Marinelli says:
I see she has no thread for bisexual women or the intentionally undeclared. (I’m only pretending to whine about this. Indeed, I’m using your post on her post as an excuse to make a quick comment post, just to say hello.) Hmmm. I’m not sorry to have missed the “blowjob shitstorm of 2006.” How very unpleasant that sounds.
P.S. I was most pleasantly surprised to note your link to my tumult-afflicted blog, and I promise A) to get my sidebar restored asap – wherever the damned thing ends up being hosted – and B) that Reclusive Leftist will be most favorably featured in said linkage at that time (which would be true even if you hadn’t linked to me, as I should hope would be obvious, since you totally rule).
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richard cherry says:
Now can a blowjob really produce a shitstorm if you’re doing it right???
Presumably the intentionally undeclared will just choose a thread at random – or maybe go to lesbians on the grounds that everyone seems fascinated by what lesbians get up to.
Yours in great seriousness.
rc -
larkspur says:
Once upon a time I took an evening class at the local community college, “Introduction to Administration of Justice”. I’d realized I didn’t really understand the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor, or how jurisdiction worked. I was the oldest student in a group of youngsers, most of whom were planning to become police officers.
Near the end of the first class, the instructor passed out a page-long “pop quiz”, told us to read the instructions and do the quiz. We had ten minutes.
Well, obviously, since I’d been around the block already and was suspicious, I read the first instruction, which reiterated the command to read the entire list, so I skipped to the last quiz problem. It said something like, “Sign your name to the top of this quiz. Do not answer any of the questions. Put your pencil down and wait quietly.”
All around me I could hear pencils scratching and scribbling. (The instructions were things like, “Circle every odd numbered question. Underline each instance of the word ‘forensic’.”) As some of the students got to number 22, they dutifully called out, “I am a great big study monster!”
The first young man got to the end and moaned, “Oh God, I’m a great big moron.” A similar chorus followed as nearly everyone realized the trick.
So the moral of this story is that I commented in the original shitstorm without really thinking about the “instructions” or the implications, and as a result I rued the damn day I posted. * I should have known better.
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, I won’t get fooled again. As far as the blogosphere is concerned, I am henceforth impervious to sex.
But y’all go ahead, if you feel like it.
*Do not worry. I was hardly traumatized by the experience.
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CR says:
larkspur,
Your Mamma didn’t raise no fool.
I don’t know how old everyone is, but… it makes me think of little kids peeking over the door of the girls locker room. -
Steve says:
I think Hugo is posting anonymously. I found this at Bitch PhD:
“And frankly, feminism in its pro-woman message sometimes I think goes overboard in decrying men as unnecessary, since I think many men like me are trying to be supportive of women’s rights while grappling to find our new place in society, where we aren’t needed as the breadwinners and basically are reduced to just sperm donors. These stereotypes that all men just love sticking their dicks down a woman’s throat in some neanderthal power play really don’t help.”
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Victoria Marinelli says:
FWIW, I can’t wrap my head around Hugo using that specific language, even anonymously.
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Steve says:
Victoria: I was kidding. Hugo is too nice to use those nasty words.
But I continue my search to find these “straw-women” feminists who want to reduce us to sperm donors and who think we are unnecessary and who think all we want to do is stick our dicks down their throats.
This “feminist” that has been conjured by a lot of men is, I think, 99% bogus. And it is a male view of feminism that also colored much of the misreading and marginalization and unfair dismissal of Andrea Dworkin.
Even the deepest, most profound feminist anger to which I have been exposed is almost always more nuanced than the male-constructed FEM-MONSTER that so many assholes seem to get off on.
Now let me really go out on a limb. I think that the act of constructing and imagining the castrating feminist is for many men an act of erotic fantasy. Sure they profess anger at women who they believe would neuter them.
But beneath the anger is a fear that this uber-woman, this monstrous bitch who only needs a sperm bank, might actually be the hottest fuck of them all, capable of swallowing them up sexually.
This thought of sex with an imagined fantasy woman who finds them completely dispensable, sex in which they might not control the rules of engagement, is both terrifying and, I think, exciting.
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Victoria Marinelli says:
Sorry, it’s sometimes difficult for me to grasp facetious tones, through the necessarily toneless medium of text.
Plus, I’m kind of dense.
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Steve says:
And Im not that funny!
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will says:
It embarasses me to talk about sex. Reproduction should stay behind closed doors.
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flawedplan says:
I liked the non-judgmental ethic, I go for that safely sharing our inner lives vibe, I’m succeptible to it.
I think that’s why I keep coming back to Socks and BitchPhd, alot of the blatant “strawfeminist” stuff is in my head, I have terrible issues with feminists, and these two blogs are helping me work them out. The parts I can understand at least.
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Violet says:
I liked the non-judgmental ethic, I go for that safely sharing our inner lives vibe, I’m succeptible to it.
I think it was very gracious of Dr. B. to provide these threads. The BJ Shitstorm was a case of people a) misunderstanding Twisty, and b) taking themselves and the debate WAY too seriously. Mostly the latter, which turned it ugly and into a multi-blog flame.
But obviously people really do want a place to talk about this stuff in a completely non-analytical, non-judgmental way, and Dr. B.’s threads are great for that. I don’t think you’ll get burned, flawedplan; Dr. B. is very sincere.
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Violet says:
I still haven’t read through the lesbian thread — unlike Richard, I am not fascinated by what lesbians do ever since I learned about fisting, which scares the living daylights out of me. But the men’s thread was fascinating, and a little sad. I was delighted to find out that many men feel about BJs the way I always thought I would feel about BJs if I were a man. If that makes any sense.
On the straight woman thread, I found my own proclivities well-represented, discovered one thing I didn’t know and am happy to have learned, and was freaked out by a couple of things. All in all, a good day!
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Violet says:
Victoria, thanks for the kind words!
will said:
It embarasses me to talk about sex.That’s a fucking lie.
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Victoria Marinelli says:
Oh dear. As the resident hasbian (who married a certifiable Big Hairy Man, no less), I’m sure to get sniped at for presuming to speak on this, but what the fuck (as it were). It’s a myth that “fisting” (ew, ew, icky poo) is a prevalent practice among lesbos. Almost all my exes are women, and most of them weren’t even particularly nice women (one had a record for attempted murder, I shit you not) and even among that subset of the lesbo population, not a one of them ever attempted nor suggested such a practice while I was with them.
“Fisting,” like ritual sadism (that’s my little phrase in place of the nonsensical “sadomasochism”), got a lot of hype back in the day when Pat Califia was successfully pretending to be a dyke, rather than a really fucking scary serial batterer/ rapist/ sometime nazi memorabilia enthusiast. (Which she still is, only with the added layer of befuddlement insofar as she is now passing herself off as a he. Now my trans friends are stuck with all that mindfuck/subterfuge.)
Infiltrators, we called them – back in my intentionally separatist days… before I committed the most ridiculously ironic act by (apparently) switching “teams.”
But that’s another story.
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will says:
“I was delighted to find out that many men feel about BJs the way I always thought I would feel about BJs if I were a man. If that makes any sense.
On the straight woman thread, I found my own proclivities well-represented, discovered one thing I didn’t know and am happy to have learned, and was freaked out by a couple of things. All in all, a good day!”
You are going to make me go and read that thread, arent you?!?
Then, I will get all embarassed knowing what your proclivities are.
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Violet says:
Then, I will get all embarassed knowing what your proclivities are.
But you have no way of knowing which are mine. The women on that thread are all over the map in saying what they like. My proclivities were represented along with other stuff that doesn’t appeal to me AT ALL.
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will says:
As if I didnt already know….
What kind of unobservate man do you take me for???
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Mandos says:
I took the thing that Steve quoted as the most fascinating interjection of them all.
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will says:
I just skimmed through it. It really is amazing the varieties of things that people like and the varieties of experiences that they have had.
We all bring in such baggage to our sexual experience. The blow job one was interesting. I would be surprised if most men wanted women to continue sucking and sucking until lock jaw.
I would suspect that is mostly internalize pressure to succeed. But I dont have any experience on what other men want besides myself.
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Violet says:
The comment that Steve quoted instantly struck me as from a non-regular who is basically an MRA-in-training. I just blew it off as alien matter. But of course you’re intrigued, Mandos: JuJu Theory at work!
The BJ talk was interesting because there is a widespread expectation among women that you’re supposed to take it all the way, regardless of how difficult and uncomfortable it becomes, and also that you’re supposed to be fantastic at it because (as any Cosmo-type magazine will tell you) it’s the Most Important Thing in a man’s life. It was very nice to see that quite a few men disagreed.
The thing that surprised me the most in the men’s thread was when some people piled on that one guy for having a “rape” fantasy. I didn’t think it was a rape fantasy at all, just a desire for a certain kind of rough sex.
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Mandos says:
Well he expressed it so succinctly. I mean, if the Essence of Virility can be banked anonymously, what is the social purpose of maleness?
Next thing they’ll be growing testes in vats.
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will says:
Rough has its moments. Intensely passionate can equal rough.
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Violet says:
I mean, if the Essence of Virility can be banked anonymously, what is the social purpose of maleness? Next thing they’ll be growing testes in vats.
Well, I for one would never want to have sex with some testes in a vat. I only like sex with testes that are attached to a man’s body.
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Violet says:
Another interesting thing was the difference between the whole-body sensuality of women and the absence of same in men. I have often in my sex life been frustrated by the fact that men don’t seem to realize I have an entire body, not just one or two really interesting areas. A lot of women (as you can see on that thread) feel the same away and yearn to be caressed everywhere. I’ve read in the past that men don’t do this because it doesn’t occur to them; their own bodies aren’t wired that way. Men don’t have whole-body sensuousness. So it was interesting to read the guys on that thread who said that indeed, the feel of being touched all over was actually “icky”! I wonder why men and women are so different about that?
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will says:
I am at a disadvantage bc i cannot comment of what other men do.
Personally, I LOVE the small of a woman’s back and her hip flexors. Necks are delectable. I could spend hours there. Breasts are fine, but I view them like many women view bj’s: good warmup.
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Mandos says:
Maybe it’s one of these things about being wired differently then.
I’ll let you in on a little secret. I don’t even like massages. For non-sexual purposes even! Almost all of my closer female acquaintances like some body part being rubbed, like shoulders at the very least. Many of my male friends do. But not all. And the only people I know who don’t really like it are men. I may have inherited it from my father—he doesn’t care for massages, but my mother wants her feet, etc rubbed all the time.
Maybe men are just wired to feel less pleasure from general touch, even nonsexual pleasure. Tot
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Mandos says:
…totally anecdotal mind you and probably doesn’t cover everyone
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Mandos says:
Well, I for one would never want to have sex with some testes in a vat. I only like sex with testes that are attached to a man’s body.
Well, yes, that’s for the luxury purpose of sexual pleasure. For reproduction, it’s another thing, and what men like that guy are more paranoid about.
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Violet says:
Will, I’m glad you’re one of the Few, the Proud, the Brave who appreciate the whole body thing for women. But I wonder if Mandos’s conjecture is right that men really are physically wired differently in terms of their own response to touch? And if so, why should that be? I wonder if there are any studies of this cross-culturally. God knows there are studies for everything, so why not.
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will says:
I doubt that I am one of the few. I suspect that many men appreciate the entire female body.
Of course, we typically appreciate the entire female body of women that we are not with more than the ones that we are with, but that is another topic.
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cicely says:
I can’t open the comments on Dr.B’s blog at all because of my mysterious computer problem – no – really! Sometimes when I try to link or post or read comments in certain places I get an error message in a box in the centre of my screen and nothing works outside that box. The cursor arrow turns immediately into a useless hand. I’ve reported the error to microsoft – the one thing you can do from inside the box – and they’ve replied that they can’t do anything about it and that the problem originated with the Yahoo Toolbar, which I no longer have. On the off-chance that anyone knows how I can fix this without calling in a technician, I’ve posted this here – without expectation. I’ll get it fixed eventually anyway.
But back to the point – I just wanted to second Victoria’s comment that fisting probably isn’t all that common among lesbians although I’ve seen quite a bit written about it. Anyway, it’s not part of my experience either. Not one of my ‘quite’ numerous partners has ever expressed an interest in it, and I’ve never had an interest myself. Nothing judgemental there – just also wondering whether there’s some kind of distortion going on about the actual prevalence of the practice.
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Violet says:
Cicely, I’ve just emailed you the lesbian comments thread from Dr. B.’s. I’ll email you the other threads next. I can also easily e-mail you the original posts if you’re having trouble looking at those.
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Mandos says:
I have one weird off-topic question. How do you pronounce “Cicely”? Since my lower brain wants to pronounce it as “Sice-lee”, with “sice” like “slice”.
But my higher brain wants to pronounce it as in the Italian island.
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cicely says:
Violet says:
Cicely, I’ve just emailed you the lesbian comments thread from Dr. B.’s.
Wow, thankyou very muchly, Violet. Some light reading before work!
Mandos – Go with your higher brain…and for more information than you’ve asked for – I chose Cicely as a screen name because I was a big fan of the TV series ‘Northern Exposure.’ The fictional town was named Cicely after one half of the lesbian couple who founded it – or at least raised the moral tone of the wild place in it’s beginnings. I always thought this was a lovely storyline, but I was a fan long before that award winning episode was screened. Should anyone want to know, Cicely’s partner’s name was Roslyn!
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richard cherry says:
Cicely – Northern Exposure YESYESYES
err that’s it from the intellectually challenged department
did I mention I liked Northern Exposure? -
Steve says:
Ill fight you for her Will.
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will says:
Fight me for her or her for me?
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Steve says:
will: the former
or how about a duel here in weehauken, where Aaron Burr and Hamilton had it out?
The prize is Vi
The loser dies.
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will says:
Wait, I thought the winner gets tried for treason and dies broke in obscurity?
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BAC says:
Violet says:
I still haven’t read through the lesbian thread — unlike Richard, I am not fascinated by what lesbians do ever since I learned about fisting, which scares the living daylights out of me.
Violet, not to worry … it’s not something commonly practiced by the women I’ve been with. Actually, in the almost 30 years I’ve been out only one partner ever requested it — and I think she was just showing off!
BAC
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antiprincess says:
http://fetchmemyaxe.blogspot.c.....posit.html
for a dissertation on the politics of fisting. it only sounds horrifying.
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belledame222 says:
Beat me to it, thanks. it’s not about punchy-punchy. just…holding space. usually.
and really, when one considers that one is capable of pushing out a six-seven pound BABY from that space, one little fist is not actually that impossible to stretch one’s…mind around.
especially if one has gurly wee hands, as some of us do *cough*
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belledame222 says:
it is, however, very much tied up with overthrowing the capitalist hegemony. so be sure to bone up on your Engels before you start. and think revolutionary thoughts.
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belledame222 says:
and I have never heard any of that about Califia and Nazi memorabilia (?!) Or a batterer. He may well have all kinds of nasty skeletons in the closet, but as far as “passing as a he,” I find that rather offensive, frankly. He’s a he.
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belledame222 says:
o i see: unless you meant to say that because he is a sexual sadist, he must needs be a batterer, rapist, Nazi fetishist.
you know, I don’t want to turn this thread nasty; there’s enough of that about.
just a data point: from all that I know about Califia (a fair amount) and all that I know about the current world of lesbians, kinky and otherwise…that is, frankly, exactly the sort of misrepresentation that really, really, grates me, hard. and is the sort of thing that has set off this sort of intrablog flame war.
I’d sure hate to be painted as a rapist, batterer etc. because of my collection of Califia bedtime stories and my nice new pink and black suede flogger.
and when I say “hate,” I mean: I fear that. A lot. Those aren’t small charges.
