“Why do you hate men?”
A question for other feminist women: do people actually ask you that in real life? I mean real life, not blogland, where knaves run free and idiocy is untrammeled.
I realize I’ve led a privileged existence, but I’ve only personally encountered one guy who thought feminism meant hating men.
Him: (shocked) You’re a feminist?
Me: (shocked) Of course I’m a feminist! How could any normal educated woman not be?
Him: (pressing his knees together anxiously — really!) So….does that mean you hate men?
Me: (even more shocked) What?
That was it — my one face-to-face encounter with a saphead. I’m sure I’ve met others, but one doesn’t usually get into these kinds of discussions with the guy who comes to clean your septic tank. And in my circle of friends and colleagues, thinking feminism means hating men is about as common as thinking the world was created 6000 years ago by a Sky Fairy. In other words, it’s a safe bet my community is probably not representative of the general population.
Anyway, my question: outside the blogosphere, do you really hear this?
77 Responses to ““Why do you hate men?””
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Paul Tergeist says:
Dear Bella.
How sexist to ask a question of feminist women only and how silly to ask women who don’t read this blog.
-TergieApril 28th, 2006 at 2:31 am EST -
gordo says:
So far, nobody has ever asked if I hate men. Or even women. Not even on my blog.
Maybe that’s because nobody assumes that men hate women, and maybe it’s because I’ve only got 2 readers.
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manxome says:
No man would ever ask a woman if she hates men. He’d just tell her that she does. If he’s extra-patient, he’ll tell her why, too. I hear it has to do with leg hair.
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Alon Levy says:
Give yourself credit, Gordo – you have a full 4 readers (Cassandra, Keith, me, and Sgo).
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Alon Levy says:
No man would ever ask a woman if she hates men. He’d just tell her that she does. If he’s extra-patient, he’ll tell her why, too. I hear it has to do with leg hair.
Have you met someone in real life who said that to you, or are you just stereotyping anti-feminists?
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foilwoman says:
The questions most likely asked me in this acontact sort of like these: “You’re one of the
low key feminist ones, right? Not a manhating feminist.”I sit silently and worked on ny man and woman hating skills (hey, I’m an equal opportunity hater, but really I’m beginning to side with Twisty, and my whole view comes down to “I Blame the Patriarchy.
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Quite Contrary says:
My brother, in fact, has told me that I hate men. He came to my house, saw a few feminist books, and stated that “If I wasn’t a feminist, then I wouldn’t hate men, and I might have a chance at getting married.” Of course, this is the guy who insists on having more children (as if it’s him ravaging his body with pregnancy and not his wife) until he gets a boy.
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Harlem World says:
“Ravaging [their] bodies” huh… I’m sorry, I thought women had a choice in the matter nowadays.
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Quite Contrary says:
Harlem: Pregnancy is very hard on a woman’s body, we all know that. And you’d be surprised how many women feel that they *don’t* have a choice in the matter. How about rape? How about men refusing to use protection? How about abusive relationships where a woman is too physically intimidated to get an abortion? Believe it or not, there are married women out there in middle America who don’t think they have a choice. They are dependent on husbands and lack the self confidence to stand up to them. Don’t just push them aside because they aren’t as strong as you. There are lots of people who don’t “choose” to have their children, but are forced to. Hope this cleared up some confusion.
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Txfeminist says:
yes but, no one’s ever asked me either, just told me so.
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ms. jared says:
no one has actually asked me point blank, but when i started a feminist group a few years ago, most of the women wanted to assure one another that they weren’t man haters. “i’m a feminist, but i like men!” was the usual refrain.
it took a long time to get everyone past that phase of qualifying their “male approval” everytime they identified as feminist. bo-ring!
xoxo, jared
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Alon Levy says:
I think everyone should get past the phase of “I’m not X, but…” It doesn’t matter if it’s about qualifying opposition to the Iraq war with “Saddam is an evil dictator,” qualifying feminism with “I like sex with men,” or qualifying disagreement with Brownmiller’s position on rape with “Rape is a heinous crime” (you’ll be surprised how many people have accused me of rape apologetics for saying that there could in theory be strategies for women to reduce the risk of rape).
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evil_fizz says:
I’ve been called a feminazi. (How witty!)
I’ve also had a “You’re a feminist?” “Yes.” “Oh, I didn’t think you’d talk to me [a guy] if you were a feminist.” conversation.
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Alon Levy says:
Hey, I’ve been called a Feminazi too, by someone who knew full well I’m male.
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Paul Tergeist says:
There are strategies for women to reduce the risk of rape. I like Glock.40s, but I have a bunch of pint bottles of 10% Capsaicin Oleoresin which I imported from China. YOu can get it in an oil base at 20% which is REALLY nasty.
If you have some of this attached to you in a manner that will disperse it during an attack (it doesn’t have to be sprayed, the container just has to burst) the attack is over when it gets on the suspect’s hands, face, or, God forbid, his choo-choo.
If pepper spray is illegal where you live, this is merely a food spice. I also have some Paprika Oleoresin which is weaker. I was experimenting with selling this in 1/3 oz bottles as a food additive for awhile but it’s too strong. To spice up a Thai dinner from mild to medium, one drop will generally suffice. And it’s pretty expensive.
Anyway, if you have some serious uv dye and maybe some very permanent bright dye mixed in with it there is going to be evidence that any court in the land will accept.
There are other things just as effective. A compant in Australia sells skunk spray and cream. If that shit gets sprayed the rape is over and the suspect can be tracked for days by a blind cop. He won’t be in anyone’s home or car, he will be a paraiah.
The downside of those assume that you are willing to REALLY fuck up a rapist’s day, and yours, and not be raped or murdered in exchange for potential olefactory fatigue and immense discomfort.
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Steve says:
The men I hang out with are shrewd enough never to make this claim in any public setting. (I am in a University) They even know enough of the language of feminism to pose successfully. They may even think they mean mean it when they talk the talk of equality.
But recently I heard some poseurs talking about how some student was a real hot piece and how they’d love to do her if she weren’t man hating carpet muncher.
This is when I realized for the latest time
(Ive seen ity hundreds of times before) that there can be a wide gulf between public discourse and private thought.So yes, I am certain that many men deride feminists and lesbians in particular as man-haters. In my world, though, they are smart enough to keep their mouths shut.
Confession: I never protest when some guy pulls this shit. Almost for the same reason that I generally dont let people know I am fluent in French and Spanish. I love to eavesdrop. I love for these guys to think I buy their dipdhit views.
The shit that comes pout of the mouths of otherwise respectable looking fucktards can be horrifying.
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will says:
“that there can be a wide gulf between public discourse and private thought.
So yes, I am certain that many men deride feminists and lesbians in particular as man-haters. In my world, though, they are smart enough to keep their mouths shut.
Confession: I never protest when some guy pulls this shit.”
This situation interests me on several levels.
First, I find it interesting when people make ridiculously predujicial statements as if their statement was perfectly normal. They have an assumption that everyone else thinks the exact same way.
Second, I am interested in the tipping point when a certain statement because taboo in the general mostly white middle class public. “Nigger” is an example of such a word. At some point, it became something that all but the most egregious racists are careful about not using in public unless they are certain about their audience.
I find it interesting to watch humor about homosexuals. It seems as though much of the populations still views gay humor as acceptable. It is still a relatively acceptable joke to pretend that one man has interest in another man.
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Txfeminist says:
“recently I heard some poseurs talking about how some student was a real hot piece and how they’d love to do her if she weren’t man hating carpet muncher.
This is when I realized for the latest time
(Ive seen ity hundreds of times before) that there can be a wide gulf between public discourse and private thought.”Yeah. Those guys are called “Gender Weenies”. They are all over University campuses.
In other words, a pretense of feminism, as a ruse to try get into women’s pants.
While I understand you may have reasons for keeping quiet- would it be better to confront them, and tell them what assholes they are being? Don’t men who oppose sexism have a responsibility to not tolerate it when other men act sexist?
Anyway, not to drop a question like that and zoom off, but i really do have to leave. I will be interested, though, to hear what folks think about that. ….
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Alon Levy says:
Don’t men who oppose sexism have a responsibility to not tolerate it when other men act sexist?
I don’t think calling other men on it will matter too much. If groups of sexist men are anything like the social networks I’m most familiar with, online echo chambers, then unless a good portion of the members protest, the people who do protest will be thrown out, and the rest will continue their sexist talk amongst themselves.
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Violet says:
But there are always the men in the group who may be uncomfortable with the sexist talk but lack the balls to speak up. One brave guy could make the difference.
Like Will, I’m comparing this in my mind to racism, which is also the kind of thing that rears its ugly head in private settings where the perpetrators imagine that it’s okay to talk about the “niggers.” Over the past 40 years more and more white Americans have had the conscience and the guts to say, “hey, that’s bullshit — don’t use those words around me.” And over time more and more people’s minds are changed and the incorrigible racists become a smaller segment of the population.
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Violet says:
Foilwoman: Twisty is God.
Gordo: I read your blog, but I generally don’t have time to comment. I generally don’t have time to comment on anybody’s blog these days.
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Violet says:
Maybe that’s because nobody assumes that men hate women
Paging Germaine Greer.
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Paul Tergeist says:
Maybe that’s because nobody assumes that men hate women.
-VThe serial murderers and rapists must.
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Violet says:
V didn’t say that, G did.
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Peter says:
Paul-where did you get your china supplies?
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Cassandra says:
Harlem World says:
“Ravaging [their] bodies” huh… I’m sorry, I thought women had a choice in the matter nowadays.
Harlem,
Just because we can choose whether or not to ravage our bodies in childbirth does not make the damage any less. Two kids has definately taken its toll on me. My body will never be back to where it was no matter how much I work out in a gym.
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Cassandra says:
Alon-
I don’t think Gordy counts me as a reader since we are related by more than that esoteric stuff written on the Gravity Plane thread.
Besides, he knows I’m illiterate
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Cassandra says:
Violet-
“Anyway, my question: outside the blogosphere, do you really hear this?”
I haven’t heard any of this for about 10 years. I think it had more to do with being married and considered a grown-up rather than because anything really changed about me. ALso, I come off as the kind of person who will call them on it, so that could also be a factor. But sure, when I was younger and dating I got the “yer not one of them feminist/sexual harassment sort of *gals* are you?” But then I would say sweetly that my feminism wasn’t an issue in the last lawsuit I pressed.
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cicely says:
I don’t think calling other men on it will matter too much. If groups of sexist men are anything like the social networks I’m most familiar with, online echo chambers, then unless a good portion of the members protest, the people who do protest will be thrown out, and the rest will continue their sexist talk amongst themselves.
Steve and Alon – So, no man should start? For fear of being thrown out? (What were we saying about male homosociality and what it often leads to?) How do you get to ‘a good portion of men’ if not one by one? I have to wonder about priorities and commitment here. Either a thing is right or it’s wrong. Pick a side.
Calling other men on their sexist language, conversation and behaviour is *exactly* what is required of men who call themselves feminists or have any real interest in improving the lives of women. Otherwise, why bother or pretend? Who is it for? What bloody use are you if the most important thing you can do, johnny on the spot, you choose not to do?
Violet – I see on scrolling up that we will have cross-posted. The comparison with racism is apt.
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Violet says:
But sure, when I was younger and dating I got the “yer not one of them feminist/sexual harassment sort of gals are you?”
I really feel like I’ve lived in a bubble. When I was younger my crowd was actors and artists, grad students and professional academics in the humanities. Lots of gay people. Politically about as liberal as you can get. I was pretty shocked when I moved out of that world for awhile into corporate America, which is where I met the saphead. Most people I met in the corporate world, including the saphead, had graduate degrees, but they’d been to B-school or had engineering or law degrees. Compared to my old crowd they were incredibly conservative and ill-educated.
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BAC says:
No man would ever ask a woman if she hates men. He’d just tell her that she does. If he’s extra-patient, he’ll tell her why, too. I hear it has to do with leg hair.
I’ve been told this one.
I find it kind of funny that some men refer to lesbians as “man haters.” Most lesbians don’t “hate” men … they never give men a second thought.
The group of women most likely to hate men are the ones who deal with them on a regular basis — heterosexual women. Particularly the 50 percent formerly married to one!
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cicely says:
I have a very chequered working class background where the word ‘feminist’ was *mostly* understood – mostly by men, but also by women – to mean man-hating, to a greater or lesser degree. I often felt obliged to make the point at the moment I identified myself as a feminist that this didn’t mean that I hate men, and, while that was and is true (except for brief, shallow and angry moments at a time, I confess), I greatly resented having to do this. Given the expressions of actual mysogyny in the world, it felt like, hey, the blood’s on their hands, but I have to make sure it’s clearly understood that I don’t hate them? Give me a break!
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Violet says:
Given the expressions of actual mysogyny in the world, it felt like, hey, the blood’s on their hands, but I have to make sure it’s clearly understood that I don’t hate them?
Exactly!
After my encounter with the saphead, I decided that if I ever met a man who said he wasn’t a feminist or pro-feminist, I’d ask him “does that mean you hate women?” Because I think that’s what it implies. If you oppose feminism, then you must believe that women are inferior to men, which means you despise them.
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Burrow says:
I wish that I could have a nickle for everytime I got called a man-hater. IRL.
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Violet says:
Burrow, who do you hear this from? Other artists, other physicists? People in the circus?
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gordo says:
Violent–
Yeah, you come by, you look at the pictures, you raid the fridge, and then you take off without so much as a hello.
That’s OK…just the sound of your footsteps in the kitchen is good enough for me.
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Alon Levy says:
After my encounter with the saphead, I decided that if I ever met a man who said he wasn’t a feminist or pro-feminist, I’d ask him “does that mean you hate women?” Because I think that’s what it implies. If you oppose feminism, then you must believe that women are inferior to men, which means you despise them.
What if you meet an anti-feminist woman?
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Steve says:
What can I say other than I am persuaded…truly. Next time some guy assumes I am one of the fucktards, he’ll hear from me.
Duly chastened.
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will says:
” Over the past 40 years more and more white Americans have had the conscience and the guts to say, “hey, that’s bullshit — don’t use those words around me.” And over time more and more people’s minds are changed and the incorrigible racists become a smaller segment of the population.”
Exactly.
I should note that I am certainly not perfect with any of this stuff. Faux-homosexuality still comes up as a source of humor in my circle of friends, even though the circle includes homosexual couples. I laugh and dont really think about it until later.
There are several couples who are homosexual couples that I consider fairly good friends. I absolutely believe that they should not be treated as second class citizens or mocked for being gay.
Yet, still I do not have an immediate replusion to gay humor. Even though, in my cicle, for the most part, gay sexuality is used as a source of humor in the same manner straight sexuality is, I wish that it offended me and others faster and harder like the word “nigger” does.
Txfeminst said:”Yeah. Those guys are called “Gender Weenies”. They are all over University campuses.
In other words, a pretense of feminism, as a ruse to try get into women’s pants”
Two questions. 1. Have there been any studies regarding the effectiveness of this ruse? 2. Do I have to wear a weird sportscoat, or can I still wear suits and be successful at this?
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The Countess says:
I hear the opposite from men. They can tell that I love men very much. I’ve had some bad experiences in the past, but my past experience doesn’t color what I think and feel about men. The Count knows for certain that I like men very much. I have a son, too, so I’m around men all the time. They be cool. ;)
The only people who think I hate men are the slimeball men’s and father’s rights supporters who hate me. And that goes for the female supporters as well as the male ones.
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will says:
The Countess loves me like the female Praying Mantes loves males.
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Janeen says:
I was actually married to a man who thought that since I identified as a feminist, I must hate men. He was Mexican, so I cut him lots of slack for his cultural background and figured I could educate him. Ha! The folly of (not so) young love.
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Paul Tergeist says:
From 42: “I was actually married to a man who thought that since I identified as a feminist, I must hate men.”
Then why was he stupid enough to marry you?
“He was Mexican”
Oh. That explains it.
“so I cut him lots of slack for his cultural background and figured I could educate him.”
I’ll bet he was thinking the same thing about you.
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The Countess says:
Will, I just love seeing you wander around the house with your head bitten off, bumping into the furniture and knocking the liquor bottles off the liquor cabinet… ;)
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Alon Levy says:
Well, I’ve always known Will had lost his head somewhere. Now I know what exactly happened.
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Violet says:
What if you meet an anti-feminist woman?
I would say something like, “Do you really believe you’re inferior to men?”
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Alon Levy says:
Ah… I could never do that. I’m not that direct, even on the internet. At any rate, the anti-feminist women I’ve met would probably respond to you by saying that staying home with the kids and being thoroughly disempowered was actually a mark of superiority, and that they were much better than these evil men who want to have careers and lives outside home.
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will says:
Countess, I suspect Alon now realizes that he was conceived to the sound of Liz Phair singing Fuck and Run. I got lucky the first time so I do not think I will risk a second go around with the Praying Mantes Countess.
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Violet says:
At any rate, the anti-feminist women I’ve met would probably respond to you by saying that staying home with the kids and being thoroughly disempowered was actually a mark of superiority, and that they were much better than these evil men who want to have careers and lives outside home.
Really? The only anti-feminist women I’ve met got that way through devotion to Jeebus and the Magic Book of God. They believe it’s God’s plan for men to be in charge.
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Alon Levy says:
The anti-feminist women I referred to in a previous thread vote Democratic, and are either atheists or very weakly religious.
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will says:
What percentage of the sewing club are carpet munching men-haters? And do they get along with the Bible-thumpers?
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Mandos says:
Here’s the thing: a lot of people’s sole exposure to feminism has been an out of context quotation/paraphrase of some particularly radical writer making a different point from what was quoted.
However, sometimes it’s not hard to take it out of context. For instance, it’s hard not to read an interview with Mary Daly and not imagine that she thinks there’s something profoundly defective about biological maleness and that she even prefers genocide. Knowing what I do, I can give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she’s playing a clever reversal game on the history of male intellectual writing about women. But you have to be “in on the joke” to determine that.
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Paul Tergeist says:
Genocide? Is that what you mean? Or do you mean patricide? Or Malt-O-Male? What’s the word for the murder of men? (Please, no jokes)
Now that I am “in on the joke” I still can’t tell Mary Daly form a barrel of pickles.
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Alon Levy says:
Viricide. I’m presuming that the female equivalent is femicide, but I’m not sure.
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Paul Tergeist says:
You are quite correct. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Femicide
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Violet says:
Mandos, Mandos, Mandos. (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)
Every movement has its radicals, but the question is why has feminism been defined in the public mind by its bleeding edge? The civil rights movement had the Black Panthers and Malcolm X and Eldridge Cleaver, yet it’s primarily associated with MLK. Women’s liberation has always had a middle-of-the road “nice” contingent playing the MLK role, but the right-wing propagandists have succeeded in defining the movement in terms of its most radical (and misrepresented) members.
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Mandos says:
Well, the question is: has it? I mean, I didn’t grow up then, but MLK is only lionized as the hero now that people agree in theory that what he did was good. I’d imagine that Malcolm X etc were what segregationists screamed about during that time, and would on the Internet if it existed.
But I think that there’s at least one thing about feminism that supports your point: men and women live at close quarters. And with feminism and the independence of women, men (for whatever reason) will feel threatened with abandonment by people with whom they live. And the people who sound like they are the fringe of the movement sound like they are advocating that abandonment.
Also I think there’s a deeper psychological reason. Men’s connection to family life is necessarily through women, because women bear children. If men can’t control women, it may seem to some men that they risk becoming peripheral in life. Mary Daly sounds like that’s precisely what she thinks should be the case…
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Mandos says:
They believe it’s God’s plan for men to be in charge.
I definitely know women who believe that women are superior via their domesticity. There are feminists who conclude therefore that since women are domestic, they should lead: I think that’s part of Goddess movements. But I KNOW anti-feminists who think that feminists are trying to knock women off their pedestal for selfish reasons.
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Paul Tergeist says:
Most women prefer other women to accept traditional roles.
The ones who get all the attention are rude, radical and ugly. So that’s the rap you get.
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Violet says:
Most women prefer other women to accept traditional roles.
No, I don’t think that’s true. It is among the hardcore godbag types, but among the great mainstream of American women I don’t think so. They may not feel comfortable calling themselves feminists or even think in those terms, but there is a real pride in the achievements of women over the past decades. I’ve seen that over and over again among the most middle-of-the road women — my relatives, office secretaries, old ladies in the checkout line, women just chatting amongst themselves — and ALWAYS when men aren’t around. I’m not talking Mary Daly rhetoric here, just a quiet sort of light in the eyes at some piece of news — a woman president somewhere! Ooh, a woman cable installer! Look, it was a woman delivering the gravel! The new dentist office has all women practitioners! Definitely, that happens all the time.
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cicely says:
Steve says:
What can I say other than I am persuaded…truly. Next time some guy assumes I am one of the fucktards, he’ll hear from me.
Nice one, Steve. Now – if they call you a man-hater, it won’t carry the same weight as calling a woman a man-hater, and I should warn you that the next defence/attack layer, also as common as muck, is that you lack a sense of humour. Fore-warned is fore-armed.
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Mandos says:
What can I say other than I am persuaded…truly. Next time some guy assumes I am one of the fucktards, he’ll hear from me.
The weird part is that I don’t really seem to get all that many opportunities to call out other men. I think I give out prude vibes, or I hang out with nice people or something. I don’t even know whether or not most of my friends have experimented with pot!
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Violet says:
Yes, good on Steve! I missed that comment earlier today. Too much in my inbox at once.
I don’t even know whether or not most of my friends have experimented with pot!
How old are you? If that’s not a rude question, which I suppose it is…well, feel free to lie. Everyone does.
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Mandos says:
Let’s just say that I’ve been out of high school for a while now but I’m probably quite a bit younger than what I think you are.
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Paul Tergeist says:
Everyone does.
-VI don’t, about my age. I occasionally take a liberty to make something more interesting, not that everything I write isn’t. Or gramatically correct.
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The Countess says:
Will, I’ve never listened to Liz Phair. I think Alon was conceived while listening to Lords Of Acid singing “The Crab Louse”. ;)
I don’t think I’m like a praying mantis. That’s too benign. I’m more like a wasp who lays her eggs in her unsuspecting host, and the babies hatch and eat the host alive. That’s much more my speed. Heh.
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The Countess says:
Remember when Mary Daly was kicked out of her professorship because she wanted to have a woman-only class? Men tried to get in, and when they couldn’t, they protested. She was fired from her job. She offered to teach them separately on her own free time, but they didn’t want that. They wanted to be in the class. I think they did that specifically to target her.
I’ve read Mary Daly a long time ago. I don’t remember much of what she said. I understood her, although I didn’t necessarily agree with her.
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Mandos says:
Yes, they did that to kick her out of Boston College. I sympathize with her reasons: they may not work for everyone, but if she’s willing to teach men separately, … But the campaign worked in that it forced her into retirement.
What intrigued me is that she WAS willing to teach men separately and claimed to enjoy it IIRC. I found it hard to square with some of the ideas I see from her in interviews. I tried reading her a while ago but she’s quite difficult and requires more philosophy background than I have.
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Alon Levy says:
I think I give out prude vibes, or I hang out with nice people or something. I don’t even know whether or not most of my friends have experimented with pot!
I think it’s just that my male friends are prudes. I’ve only had one opportunity to call one of them out on homophobia, and another on his hating the class shrew.
Nice one, Steve. Now – if they call you a man-hater, it won’t carry the same weight as calling a woman a man-hater, and I should warn you that the next defence/attack layer, also as common as muck, is that you lack a sense of humour. Fore-warned is fore-armed.
Steve, I think the next line of attack is that you lack self-respect. When I dared say on UTI that there was still rampant misogyny, I was attacked for lacking self-respect and for being duped by NOW. I was also attacked by some feminists for exercising male privilege in the same post, but that was nothing new.
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hexy says:
I’ve not only been told I hate men IRL, I’ve had a misogynistic jerk I have the misfortunate to know in real life actually come onto my blog to accuse myself and other posters of hating men.
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Spicy says:
A question for other feminist women: do people actually ask you that in real life?
Sadly, yes.
A stock response of mine is a flat ‘I don’t. I hate men who are violent to women – whether that be physically, emotionally or sexually. I hate men who seek to control women whether that be financially, politically or socially. I hate men who rape women, who traffick women, who harass women, patronise women, judge women solely by their appearance or who think women only exist in relation to men. I only hate those men. The rest I like.’
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Violet says:
Alon said:
When I dared say on UTI that there was still rampant misogyny, I was attacked for lacking self-respect and for being duped by NOW.
I’m surprised. I thought UTI attracted a liberal bunch.
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Alon Levy says:
Oh, now we do. But at the time we had some conservative and/or religious commenters, who were mostly thoughtful. But one made a quip about my lack of self respect when I said that male guilt naturally followed from knowing how extensive misogyny is; and because of a previous thread about religion and misogyny, there was an MRA troll (who went away on his own after being ignored on two threads). By number of commenters, I think there were more vitriolic feminists calling me privileged than vitriolic MRAs calling me duped, though the MRA posted a lot more comments than the feminists.
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alphabitch says:
Steve, a guy I know and have talked about this with told me that he responds most effectively to sexist and racist bullshit among some of his more clueless buddies simply with a confused look and the question, asked without hostility, “why is that funny, anyway?” Followed occasionally with a puzzled, “I still don’t get it,” and a shrug when they can’t explain it. He gets razzed about it from time to time, but no more so than he gets razzed for being a vegetarian or not liking football.
I see what you are saying about not coming forward though, as it’s sometimes kind of weirdly fascinating to spy on these people. But, like watching a car wreck, it’s ultimately (in my opinion) unethical to just cruise by if there’s something you can do to help.
And Violet, yeah, I get that quite a lot in the “real world” (not so much my friends, but work associates, family, and the like) – people really do ask me outright if I’m [a lesbian, a feminist, still single at 42, etc.] because I hate men, or do I hate men (and therefore became a feminist) because I am still single at my advanced age. Sort of a bizarre chicken/egg theory.
And I even, just the other night, got a seriously disgusting invitation to dinner at Red Lobster from this creep to “prove” that I don’t hate all men. He said I could order anything I wanted on the menu and then he looked down my shirt.
Sometimes it’s better when they think I hate them.
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will says:
Ok, I get it. Feminists don’t hate men.
Just penises, right?
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Violet says:
people really do ask me outright if I’m [a lesbian, a feminist, still single at 42, etc.] because I hate men, or do I hate men (and therefore became a feminist) because I am still single at my advanced age.
Amazing how women are defined in relation to men. Isn’t it obvious that lesbians are lesbians because they like women? Yet that old trope that lesbians are lesbians because they ‘hate men’ is still hanging in there. The rest of it, too: people are unmarried for any number of reasons, “hating” the opposite sex not being a particularly common one; and women are feminists because they have self-respect. Hating men my foot.
Will: the penises remark is worthy of Paul. Don’t stoop that low.
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will says:
I actually find the statement “do you hate men?” rather humorous. Why would you spend more than two seconds on someone who made such a statement, other than to say “that is a ridiculous statement.”?
The world is filled with idiots. There are some people who are worthy of discussion and others who are not.
