The Rape Cycle
It starts early.
Here’s what middle-school kids think about rape, according to a survey of 11-14 year-olds:
- 51% of boys and 41% of girls believe that a man has a right to force a woman to kiss him if he has “spent a lot of money on her.”
- 32% of boys and 32% of girls say it’s not improper for a man to rape a woman who has had past sexual experiences.
- 87% of boys and 79% of girls say rape is okay if a man and woman are married.
- 47% of all those surveyed say it’s okay for a man to rape a woman he has been dating for more than 6 months.
Doesn’t sound too good, does it? By middle school, American children have already drunk deeply from the patriarchy: they know that men have the right to sexually possess women, that women can be bought, and that women who aren’t virgins are fair game for rape.
So perhaps it’s not so surprising what happens when they get to college:
- 1 in 4 college women report being victims of rape or attempted rape.
- 1 in 12 college men admit to committing acts that meet the legal definition of rape.
- 35% of college men indicate some likelihood that they would commit rape if they could be assured of not getting caught.
And it doesn’t stop when they get married…
- 10% of women are the victims of rape or attempted rape by a husband or intimate partner in their lifetime.
- 33-46% of husbands who beat their wives also rape them.
… or have children:
- About 20% of all rapes are committed against children under the age of 18 by their own family members.
- 20-40% of women and 10-20% of men report having been sexually victimized as children (this includes sexual abuse other than rape).
And then you go to the top and start all over again.
*****
Statistics obtained from:
New York City Alliance Against Sexual Assault; CDC National Center for Injury Prevention and Control; Bureau of Justice Statistics
62 Responses to “The Rape Cycle”
-
Infidel says:
The 11-14yr old statistics make it clear that education is absolutely needed if for nothing else then to define Rape.
Rape by definition is always “not OK”, is always “improper”, these children do not understand the word.
They should recite over and over, reading from a card, if necessary “Rape is not OK and is Improper”
Maybe “Comprehension Balls” would be in order.April 22nd, 2006 at 11:16 am EST -
Violet says:
I find those statistics quite disturbing. Of course allowances have to be made for youth, but what pieces these kids have picked up are clearly wrong, wrong, wrong.
-
RedDragon says:
Oh my god. I don’t understand where the kids pick up these ideas from? Who is telling them that it’s not always wrong?
-
Alon Levy says:
They should recite over and over, reading from a card, if necessary “Rape is not OK and is Improper”
Nah, they should understand what that means, first – otherwise it’ll end up being as meaningless as the Pledge of Allegiance.
-
Ann Bartow says:
I hung out with a group of women last night, folks I like but didn’t know all that well. At a certain point the conversation in the room turned to the Duke rape situation, and every one of us knew at least one woman who had been gang raped in a university setting, but had chosen not to attempt to press charges.
-
Infidel says:
Eleven years old? That’s about the time my father died. Sex was all about the birthday party I hadn’t gone to where the birthday girl, a friend of mine, it was rumoured, had given blow-jobs to several of the boy guests. My best friend’s(male) brother had begun giving me blow-jobs, and Playboy. Lots and lots of Playboy. Rape was about false accusations in “To Kill a Mockingbird” and beating the rap in “A Town Without Pity”. “Billy Jack” hadn’t come along yet to kick the shit out of anybody. If you had told me at eleven “that it’s not always wrong” my gut feeling would be to spit in your eye.
- 87% of boys and 79% of girls say rape is okay if a man and woman are married. -
I am compelled to think this response has to do with how the question was asked! There is no way eight out of ten human beings, of any age group, or ethnic group, or gender, or even rapists, would answer that way.
RAPE IS OKAY IF A MAN AND WOMAN ARE MARRIED.
RAPE IS NOT OKAY.Pick one.
-
CR says:
I think it’s a quietly corrosive problem in our society. Rape, sexual abuse and othe forms of physical abuse. It’s much too prevelant. I believe the 40% of females who have been sexually victemized because it matches with my own little study that I did. That’s not good. Too much funny stuff going on. For me, personally, I think it is one of the top things that should be on the agenda of feminism. Unfortunately conversations about this stuff quickly get confused by nitpicky argurements over the meanings of words and other derailments and minimizations that sound intellectual and valid but aren’t. Before you know it the whole point is entirely lost.
-
CR says:
And I think feminists should stick up for boys too.
-
CR says:
You’re a brave person Infidel. Brave person. I’m admiring you alot. I can’t tell my story because it is too yucky and unrepeatable. I think though that there’s alot more of us out there than even statistics can show.
-
Alon Levy says:
There is no way eight out of ten human beings, of any age group, or ethnic group, or gender, or even rapists, would answer that way.
People say a lot of fucked up things because they sound alright when they don’t think about them. It’s like how 70% of Americans support spousal notification laws with abortion – they think a woman should in normal circumstances tell her husband if she wants to abort, so they support a law saying she always has to, even if the circumstances when she wouldn’t tell him without a law are very abnormal.
Now, most people seem to think rape’s about sex. They know it’s forced sex, but the emphasis is on sex and not force. So they think that normally married couples should have sex, and that in normal circumstances whenever one partner demands it, the other would say yes.
If you want to get over that problem, you can rewrite rape laws to ignore the sexual nature of the crime, i.e. to classify sexual assaults based on how violent there are and not based on whether there’s penetration. To my understanding, younger people already don’t see anything special about penetration, so it makes sense (e.g. Amanda once said she was surprised to learn that the legal difference between rape and sexual assault is about penetration). Canada did that, although obviously it’s impossible to judge the practical consequences of that overhaul.
For me, personally, I think it is one of the top things that should be on the agenda of feminism.
Well, I would agree with that, if there were coherent ideas of how to reduce rape. So far I’ve only seen one – Brownmiller’s proposal to overhaul sexual assault laws so that they don’t classify offenses based on penetration. The problem is that it’s not at all clear that this proposal will actually combat rape, and so far the most effective way to combat rape seems to be to combat violent crime in general.
-
Violet says:
Infidel, I second what CR said. And there are a lot of boys who are sexually victimized.
As bad as the underreporting problem is with females, it’s believed that the underreporting with boys is even worse. The statistics for males are fuzzy for that reason, but the estimates I’ve seen are that half of male rape victims are boys under the age of 12, and 75% of male rape victims are under the age of 18. Then it drops off precipitously; adult females are raped in great numbers, but it seems adult male victims are relatively rare (though there is the underreporting problem).
-
Violet says:
At a certain point the conversation in the room turned to the Duke rape situation, and every one of us knew at least one woman who had been gang raped in a university setting, but had chosen not to attempt to press charges.
We all know someone or several someones who have been raped — we women, I mean. I think one of the reasons there’s such a disconnect between men and women discussing this issue is that as women, we know how common rape is because we talk about it. We know from our friends, sisters, cousins, classmates, from all the other women in our lives what’s really going on. And so when we hear the figures about 1 in 8 women being raped, we say of course. We knew that. And when we hear that only 6% of men are rapists, we think, wow, those 6% of guys sure must be getting around a lot. They must be doing all the dating, marrying, and fathering; where is the other 94% of the male population? Did we all date the same guy?
But we don’t usually talk about this stuff with men, so I think they don’t really know. They really, truly, have no idea how common rape is.
It reminds me of the Clarence Thomas hearings and how sexual harassment at work suddenly became the national topic. Men were all shocked and disbelieving, saying if it had really happened Anita Hill would have reported it, wouldn’t have stayed, yadeyadyeayde. Meanwhile, every single woman I knew was saying jesus fucking christ. It happens all the goddamn time. Every single fucking job I’ve ever had there’s some asshole who does that — every single one. If women reported every dip shit boss who propositioned them there would be no end to it. And why leave your job when there’s going to be another dipshit at the next job? But hey, when the dipshit boss is suddenly up for the Supreme Court, then, by god, it’s worth raising a stink.
-
Timothy Shortell says:
I don’t see how it is possible to make headway with these numbers without addressing male privilege more systematically. The reason that men don’t think about sexual harassment or assault is because we don’t have to. When the wingnuts explain rape by arguing that the victim was asking for it by wearing that outfit or by being drunk or by being alone at night, they are revealing privilege of being male in a patriarchy. The ways that boys are socialized into male privilege are so numerous and reinforcing that I don’t think any lesson about sexual ethics would be effective.
I am reminded of something that Michel Foucault said in an interview about sexual assault. He argued that it would be a good idea to treat such crimes as simply acts of assault — that is, to eliminate the category of sexual assault altogether. My initial reaction when I read it was, “Very bad idea.” Perhaps there is more to it. I can see that it would have the advantage of shifting the frame from sexuality to violence. It seems to me that kids would be far less likely to accept the idea that it is okay to attack your partner just because you are married.
It is easier, I think, to see how violence is about power. One of the reasons that boys think rape is justified in certain circumstances is, in part, because they believe that male sexuality is uncontrollable. Support for the idea that males are always ready to fight and that is OK is much less ubiquitous it seems to me.
Perhaps this just addresses the issue of sexual assault by leaving the issue of male privilege intact.
I read the Foucault quite a few years ago. Am I remembering his argument correctly? Has it been discussed much since?
-
RedDragon says:
*The reason that men don’t think about sexual harassment or assault is because we don’t have to.*
You are so right with this. It’s like how white people don’t think about racism, how heterosexual people don’t think about homophobia. Because they are in a position where it doesn’t affect them. (of course I don’t mean *all* men, all white people or all straight people)
It’s a effort to see beyond your own experience. All of us have privilege in some form. It’s just that most people are so entrenched they don’t even realise. And thus get angry and defensive when others try and point it out. I agree with you totally Timothy, this issue is all about the privilege. I just don’t know how we can even begin to tackle it on a large scale. -
Paul Tergeist says:
51% of boys and 41% of girls believe that a man has a right to force a woman to kiss him if he has “spent a lot of money on her.”
-VioletWait a second here. I need quantitative data. How much is ‘a lot of money’. I want to know where the line between rape ends and ‘she owes it to me’ begins. For instance, I can imagine that the bar might be set higher for Violet than for, say a known harlot like Angelina Jolie.
From 14: The reason that men don’t think about sexual harassment or assault is because we don’t have to.
-RedDragonDon’t be silly, there are as many male sexual predators looking for boys as there are looking for girls.
-
gordo says:
Paul–
Are you trying to be funny?
-
appletree » Blog Archive » Rape and the Culture of Fear says:
[...] Reclusive Leftist compiled a series of disturbing statistics on rape in a couple of her recent posts: (link) (link) [...]
-
Alon Levy says:
We know from our friends, sisters, cousins, classmates, from all the other women in our lives what’s really going on. And so when we hear the figures about 1 in 8 women being raped, we say of course.
Yeah, but when some women also say “of course” about 1 in 4, or 1 in 50, I reserve the right to doubt personal judgments. The lower the percentage is, the likelier the person is to talk in terms of absolute numbers, so nobody actually told me “1 in 50″; rather, that person said, “a woman is raped in America every 15 minutes.” But still, women who presumably know how ubiquitous rape is have given me figures ranging from 35,000 rapes per year to 400,000.
The ways that boys are socialized into male privilege are so numerous and reinforcing that I don’t think any lesson about sexual ethics would be effective.
It’s the other way around. It’s not that boys are socialized into privilege, but that girls are socialized into lack of privilege. Apart from the rape-is-about-sex myth, there are too many parallels between regular assault and sexual assault to think that there is something special about how boys treat girls; rather, it’s that boys are rough with everyone, including people who are socialized not to fight back (i.e. girls).
One of the reasons that boys think rape is justified in certain circumstances is, in part, because they believe that male sexuality is uncontrollable. Support for the idea that males are always ready to fight and that is OK is much less ubiquitous it seems to me.
Well, to me it seems equally ubiquitous. Even the victim blaming is similar – “He shouldn’t have walked in that neighborhood at night.” Lawyers don’t promulgate this myth in court and in the media, but that’s mostly because assault tends to leave visible marks, whereas rape tends not to.
One big difference between rape and other crimes is that with other crimes it’s a lot easier to prove that a crime really took place, and a lot harder to prove the identity of the perpetrator. A lot of rapes don’t have any DNA evidence, but I’m willing to bet that the percentage of rapes with DNA evidence is much higher than the percentage of murders or assaults. On the other hand, it’s harder to prove that a rape occurred than to prove that a murder, robbery, or even assault occurred.
Therefore defending someone who’s suspected of rape usually involves denying that a rape occurred, something that’s buttressed by the long history in the US of false rape accusations as a way of putting black people in their place. But even absent that history, rape is more deniable than other violent crimes, which is why lawyers and biased pundits say that rape victims are liars but not robbery victims or assault victims.
I don’t see how it is possible to make headway with these numbers without addressing male privilege more systematically.
Countries that are a lot less amenable to feminism than the US have a fraction of its rape rate. If you want to reduce rape, won’t it be logical to try and see whether the US can reduce its own rape rate by emulating these countries, and if it can, then what it needs to emulate?
After all, the US has not only a higher rape rate than Europe, but also a higher murder rate and a higher assault rate. So you could logically argue that the fault and the solution lie not with the level of gender inequality but with the level of violence men are ingrained with. The US definitely has a more violent culture than Europe, due to a variety of social and historical factors. As a side note, the US also has a worse rape-underreporting problem than Europe; for example, in Britain, one feminist group produced a factsheet decrying how only 75% of British rapes are reported.
-
RedDragon says:
*Don’t be silly, there are as many male sexual predators looking for boys as there are looking for girls.*
Yes, there are. I was talking about how grown men generally speaking do not have to worry about rape to the extent that women do.
*one feminist group produced a factsheet decrying how only 75% of British rapes are reported.*
Don’t suppose you could point me towards that factsheet? -
Alon Levy says:
No, mostly because it was a very long time ago, and it’s hard to search for statistics on Google. I’ve just tried looking for it a bit, but couldn’t find anything useful – I found one rape-activist site, http://www.truthaboutrape.co.uk, but it didn’t have any statistics about reporting.
-
RedDragon says:
Stats from the UK:
http://www.rapecrisis.org.uk/stats.htmlFrom New Zealand:
http://www.rapecrisis.org.nz/stats/stats_nat.asp
Including the following statement:
*only 27% reported to the Police. Survivors of incest were even less likely to seek Police assistance than survivors of rape and sexual abuse*
From a survey of 12,432 contacts nationally in New Zealand. -
Paul Tergeist says:
From 16: Are you trying to be funny?
-GordoOh. My. God.
-
CR says:
Alon, just said something that made me think. Males have something within their culture amongst themselves that can make them really mean to each other too. Hazing comes to mind as well as some other ‘rough and tough’ behaviours they do amongst themselves. Again always with that disclaaimer about it not only being males who do this behavoiur, but mostly males. What any of this has to do with what we are talking about- I don’t know. Just saying that Alon was making me think about it a bit.
I also wanted to say that rapes, incest, sexual assaults, violent assaults and the like are done by troubled individuals. The inexperienced, the foolish and finally, the truelly wicked. They are acting or reacting to their own abuses a good deal of the time. I do not know how to say this, but if someone is abused it would be a good thing for them to find some way on the inside to keep it together and not pass along the cycle.
About stastitics, statistians DO have certain mathamatical formulas/formulae to account for things like underreporting and errors. I am not a math person but I know they do. but you will see wide variations of certain kinds of statistcs because of the way the data is surveyed and collected. In the cases of rape statistics, it comes down to definition of rape- how it’s reported and so on. The thing about those numbers is that they do not take into account any of the situations like unreported incest or “mom’s boyfriend”, “family friends”, “boss” type of things or stories like our dear revered Deb or sex trade types of situations. It does not figure in. It’s not that the enumerators are being wise guys. It’s that they have been given a very narrow order to follow. They do the best they can. And even with them doing that you still see huge margines for errors. Thus the wide range of numbers involving rape.
I am not a legalisitc type of person. Nor a mathimatical one. And bully for me. :-))) that way when I see something invovling abuse- I know it without getting fussy about whether or not he/she was penetrated, did he hit him/her or did he just mess with their mind. Was it a boy or a girl that was abused. Was he actually abusing the person or just looking at pictures of it frequently. Was she a drug addict when she was being assaulted. Did she steal a car. Is the little boy already homosexual. Were they in a dark alley alone. Is he a respected member of the community or a vagabond. Did they report it right away or never at all. and so on. And any number of things that confuse people.
And to the abuser- I can tell the difference between those who are inexperienced, those who are foolish and those who are truelly wicked and have lost themselves.
ah! I got all pooped out writing this.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
Is it true that the women who worry the most about being raped couldn’t get raped on a bet?
-
Infidel says:
I’m sure people who don’t ride in or drive cars are far less likely to die in a car accident. What an inconvenience though. Walking everywhere you have to go.
-
Deb Beardsley says:
From NZ – yese, incest survivors are less likely to go to the police for the reason they are firstly, not believed secondly it is too touchy a situation and thirdly they inadequately trined to deal with the situation. I am a vctim – working desperately hard to be a survivor – and can speak from experience. NEVER would I recommend anybody going to the police for any form of help. I did and shattered my life more than it already had been. I was threatened with a search warrant to come and search MY house and with arrest if they came up with nothing. I continue to live in fear not only of my abuser but of the so called law enforcers. Incest victims/survivors have the added burden of losing those closest to them and having not vital form of support and lifelinks, not to mention unbearable friction which adds to an already soul destroying , demoralising and life shattering situation. There is nowhere to turn.
-
belledame222 says:
I think it all comes down to boundaries. Your body belongs to you; period, end. Nobody else’s does. In concept, at least, it’s really fucking straightforward.
-
belledame222 says:
that is, I mean, in terms of teaching.
For adult survivors, there’s an excellent video on boundary work wrt sexuality: “Healing Sex”
-
cicely says:
Here’s what middle-school kids think about rape, according to a survey of 11-14 year-olds:
51% of boys and 41% of girls believe that a man has a right to force a woman to kiss him if he has “spent a lot of money on her.”
51% of boys and 41% of girls got this sex education question wrong.
32% of boys and 32% of girls say it’s not improper for a man to rape a woman who has had past sexual experiences.
32% of boys and 32% of girls got this sex education question wrong.
87% of boys and 79% of girls say rape is okay if a man and woman are married.
87% of boys and 79% of girls got this sex education question wrong.
47% of all those surveyed say it’s okay for a man to rape a woman he has been dating for more than 6 months.
The boys and girls who made up this 47% got this sex education question wrong.
Either these children have failed sex education or sex education has failed them. I think sex education has failed them. Sex education needs to be improved so that these kinds of questions are asked and fully answered as part of it. It should also be a compulsory subject for which there is an exam, and a pass or fail result should be marked on a report card. Then we might start getting somewhere.
-
Violet says:
This is America. We don’t have sex education.
When I was in school (in the 70s), the sex ed class happened in 9th or 10th grade (just after the age of the kids in this survey), and it consisted of a handful of sessions taught by the gym coach. Nothing about sex or birth control; just menstruation and gynecological health. And the gym coach couldn’t pronounce the word “gynecologist.”
My impression is that things have actually gone downhill since then, seeing as how the fundies believe that sex education makes kids have sex.
-
cicely says:
This is America. We don’t have sex education.
Yes, I see this, Violet, and how it’s getting worse. I don’t know that any country has the kind of sex education the world needs except maybe Sweden. (I found something from there once – which I’ll try to find again – which was teaching teenagers about the pleasure of sex…)
In NZ when I was growing up we learned the basic anatomy of male and female bodies with regard to procreation – end of story. Nothing whatsoever about any social aspect. (Except of course that boys will always try it on and girls are morally obliged to resist. Certainly not to tease because boys would get a very painul condition known as ‘blue balls’, and if this happened there seemed to be some kind of obligation to relieve them of the pain. At least that’s what the boys said. Some even claimed that their balls might drop off…
-
schemanista says:
Paul Tertgeist:
I want to know where the line between rape ends and ’she owes it to me’ begins.Ummm, nowhere? Except in the mind of the rapist.
She doesn’t “owe” it to you. Ever.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
fundies believe that sex education makes kids have sex.
-VioletSince God is in control and nothing we do can have any lasting consequence, there is no reason anyone should have to go to school at all. A good dose of the Bible three times a day should more than suffice. But if these kids are not taught that rape is wrong, they might well think that it is merely a courtship ritual and many probably think that very thing.
After all if you get these urges and your sister is right there, GOD must have put her there for you.
A LOT of people think men have one less rib than women. The logic of that idea fails me.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
32: According to the stats, she does if I have spent a ‘lot’ of money on her. What I keep asking, and what none of you have managed to answer is how much is a ‘lot of money’ to a fourteen year-old and does that amount carry through her adult life or is inflation factored in?
According to that logic, rape is merely a case of failing to pay the innkeeper so I think I am perfectly within my rights to find out whether I need to take Violet to an Outback Steak House and get her a Foster’s on tap or to a French restaurant and get her a bottle of Annie Green Springs before I own the goodies.
-
Violet says:
What I keep asking, and what none of you have managed to answer is how much is a ‘lot of money’ to a fourteen year-old
I thought you were being facetious. I’m sure that’s exactly how the survey question was phrased — “a lot of money” — which leaves it up to the child to imagine whatever seems like a lot of money to him/her. The point is whether the child thinks money buys the right to commit rape.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
I thought you were being facetious
-VI was. I still am. Where in the WORLD would that percentage of girls get the idea that money=rights to their bodies? THEY NEVER HEARD THAT FROM ME, and I seriously doubt they heard it from their fathers.
Where did they get it? Mom? Friends? TV? Hmmmm…..TV……Desperate housewives?
-
Violet says:
Where do they hear it? Everywhere. Growing up I definitely learned that there was a widespread understanding that when a man buys a woman an expensive dinner, she is obligated to sleep with him.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
Oh, fine. NOW I find out.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
Where do they hear it? Everywhere. Growing up I definitely learned that there was a widespread understanding that when a man buys a woman an expensive dinner, she is obligated to sleep with him.
-VioletCan you be more specific? Did you hear this from a guy who was buying you dinner, or did you hear it from women, or did you read it in Scientific American? “Everywhere” doesn’t point to a male plot to subjugate women.
-
Dan S. says:
“Countries that are a lot less amenable to feminism than the US have a fraction of its rape rate”
Especially, for some reason, the ones where women who are raped will, if they come forward, face social stigma and often legal punishments. Can’t imagine why . . .
While the survey data is horrifying, and indicates the need for anti-rape awareness campaigns (!), some small part of it may have to do with late childhood / early adolescent brain development and stages of moral reasoning. But still, they shouldn’t have to think this out – it should be part of the air they breathe.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
Awareness campaigns and the war on drugs and “just say no”.
Does anyone think that an awareness campaign will stop rape or murder or abuse or drugs or that anyone will ever ‘just say no’ in any worthwhile proportion to the money being wasted because it is the politically correct way to waste money?
-
Violet says:
Can you be more specific? Did you hear this from a guy who was buying you dinner, or did you hear it from women, or did you read it in Scientific American? “Everywhere” doesn’t point to a male plot to subjugate women.
No, I can’t be more specific. It was just part of the general culture that I absorbed, along with a zillion other notions about the relations between the sexes.
Patriarchy is “everywhere” and it coopts everyone, including men. Its ubiquity is why it’s so durable. But you know that.
Does anyone think that an awareness campaign will stop rape or murder or abuse or drugs or that anyone will ever ‘just say no’ in any worthwhile proportion to the money being wasted because it is the politically correct way to waste money?
Drugs, no. But rape, maybe. I say that because sociologists have seen a decline in the rate of sexual child abuse, and they believe (after much study) that part of this drop represents a genuine reduction in crime. This may be a result of the past 20 years of education and awareness surrounding child abuse.
Similarly, if people can be fully educated about rape, I think there’s a chance that could cut down on date rape and intimate partner rape. The hardcore sex predators, no — nothing will affect them.
-
will says:
Buying a nice dinner definitely gets you laid.
Everyone knows that. Unless you are ugly.
I need to find that SNL skit about Tom Brady and harassment
Be attractive
-
Infidel says:
“Just say no” campaigns, yes get them out there.
Catch phrase for date rape?
Just be a decent person. Respect one another. Pay for dinner because you asked her out and it was your idea and she agreed.
You might really be compelled to kiss her…say something, test the waters, don’t force yourself on her. -
schemanista says:
Paul Tertgeist: What I keep asking, and what none of you have managed to answer is how much is a ‘lot of money’ to a fourteen year-old and does that amount carry through her adult life or is inflation factored in?
Yeah, like a fourteen year-old knows how to account for inflation. Does it disturb you at all that they have this idea in the first place?
Paul Tertgeist: Where did they get it? Mom? Friends? TV? Hmmmm…..TV……Desperate housewives?
Ah, apparently it does, but it’s all Mom’s fault.
They couldn’t get this from watching their fathers, uncles, brothers, neighbours, preachers… treating women as property. Has to be the feminist-dominated mass media.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
14: ‘Yeah, like a fourteen year-old knows how to account for inflation. Does it disturb you at all that they have this idea in the first place?”
-schemNo, it seems fine to me. It certainly works in Thailand.
“They couldn’t get this from watching their fathers, uncles, brothers, neighbours, preachers… treating women as property. Has to be the feminist-dominated mass media.”
-schemI’m glad we agree on something, dear. Would you like to treat me to a week at Daytona for NASCAR?
-
Paul Tergeist says:
From 42: No, I can’t be more specific. It was just part of the general culture that I absorbed, along with a zillion other notions about the relations between the sexes.
Patriarchy is “everywhere” and it coopts everyone, including men. Its ubiquity is why it’s so durable. But you know that.
-VioletOK, who am I to go against 10,000 years of natural selection? WHO WANTS AN EXPENSIVE DINNER? Attractive, single, women-who-think-a-dinner-is-worth-a-toss only, PLEASE! No sweathogs need apply.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
I forgot one requirement: You must stop talking and get naked in a reasonable period of time after we get back to your place. About three minutes is the accepted norm.
All applicants will be considered, but only those who can supply a favorable Dun&Bradstreet will be selected. Void where prohibited, 100 Grand prize winners will be selected.
-
Alon Levy says:
Especially, for some reason, the ones where women who are raped will, if they come forward, face social stigma and often legal punishments. Can’t imagine why . . .
Obviously, it’s true in these countries (Japan comes to mind here). But it’s also true in countries with less rape stigma than the US, like, say, most European countries.
-
Mickle says:
“Can you be more specific?”
Not really, because if we could then the contradiction between that rare explicit statement and the laws of rights and privileges were taught would have been more obvious.
It’s more in the way interactions between the sexes are portrayed than anyone explicitly saying “if a man spends a lot of money on you, you owe him your body.”
Chris Rock will find his Dad’s hidden Playboy and make money by showing all kids at school, but girls will never do that in movies or TV – so in real life they learn to be Molly Ringwold and be the person whose panties are used by someone else to make money.
Really, a lot of it seems to be that society often acts as if sex is something women have and men want. The few women who want it are usually portrayed as deviant and nymphos – Madonna anyone? When this is considered a basic truth, the idea that a woman would “owe” a man her body is actually a logical conclusion because, well, why else would she have sex?
So, the kids aren’t being “told” this by anyone so much as they are responding to the truths they see around them: men buy playboys, women pose for money.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
From 50: “Really, a lot of it seems to be that society often acts as if sex is something women have and men want. The few women who want it are usually portrayed as deviant and nymphos.”
If women do not want sex, why do they have it? If they don’t want children why is the population exploding? Men as simply hard-wired to give women sex when they demand it. Since no one ever knows when that is going to be (obviously never in your case), men have to live with the horrible stress of having to be ready all of the time and perform on que. “The few women who want it indeed!” Are you a nutloaf? …….sorry, bad question. Have you been diagnosed yet?
Feminism is not about women not wanting to have sex, it is about them choosing when, with whom and for what purpose. The argument for feminity is that women ENJOY sex and want to be able to choose multiple partners FOR FUN, not strictly for procreation or at their husband’s whim.
I think it’s a good thing. I love it when a woman propositions me and they are ALWAYS as good as they say they are.
-
Violet says:
“The few women who want it indeed!” Are you a nutloaf?
Paul, you misunderstood: Mickle was just citing the social myth that women are undersexed relative to men.
-
CR says:
Giggle, I think maybe woman are over sexed in comparison to theri male friends and maybe that’s why don’t act like such desperados.
-
Paul Tergeist says:
Paul, you misunderstood…
-VioletIf I didn’t misunderstand half of what is written in here I would have no excuse for most of my rants. THEN where would you be? In the hellish state of Vermont with no entertainment but Rush Limbaugh.
To Alon: Don’t correct my English you foreign devil! I was writing wrongs before you were born and I will be afterward!!
-
Mickle says:
“Mickle was just citing…social myth.’
Yeah, I thought that was pretty clear what with the “society acts as though” “portrayed” and “considered”
Although I will give you that the lecture on what feminism is was slightly entertaining.
-
Jodie says:
Paul Tergeist says:
Is it true that the women who worry the most about being raped couldn’t get raped on a bet?
Paul, considering that elderly women and infant children are rape victims, I think it’s an equal opportunity crime. All it takes is a perpetrator and a moment of vulnerability.
-
Alon Levy says:
Not necessarily – after all, men get raped too, and yet it’s absurd to claim that rape affects men and women equally.
-
pheenobarbidoll says:
Gee, where did I ever hear about men expecting sex from women?
For one, TV. Put out or get out was said often. Movies, same thing. Some guy bitching about how much money he spent on prom for “nothing”.
Personal life
I’ve had more than a few dates get quite pissy that they didnt get past making out after spending money, and yes, inserted that as the reason they SHOULD. I wasnt grateful enough.
Lesse…snarky little “jokes” in hallways, comedy acts, songs, videos..popular culture basically.
-
Flewellyn says:
24. Is it true that the women who worry the most about being raped couldn’t get raped on a bet?
Paul, you’ve stated before that you were being facetious, but this is egregious. What are you here for, and what are you trying to do? Your statements do not contribute anything of substance to the discussion, and you seem more interested in derailing it than contributing to it.
Do you have any idea how asinine you sound? How, frankly, cruel and callous? Obviously you feel that rape, its horrific prevalence, and its widespread toleration by society is a laughing matter. Why on Earth do you think that this is funny? What, in short, is your problem?
-
Mandos says:
Paul as far as I can tell is someone’s weird parody.
-
hexy says:
Do you mind if I repost this? And may I also quote your comment number 12?
-
Violet says:
Do you mind if I repost this? And may I also quote your comment number 12?
You’re welcome to repost it, and the comment. I’m honored.
