Myths and Facts About Rape
Over in the Duke thread RedDragon posted the following comment:
…I have been told by close friends and family members of their being raped. None of them reported, none of them told their parents. Did all my separate friends who were raped lie to me? Why did they lie? What did they gain by lying to me? I am not a lawyer or a policewoman. Am I am an anomaly for knowing so many women who have been raped? I don’t know that many people, let me tell you. And I’m not even counting the women I don’t know so well. It’s real. It happens alot.
Yes, it is real. Yes, it happens a lot.
Around the time RedDragon was posting that comment, I was over at Feminist Law Professors reading about the Sexual Assault Yearly Speak Out in New York City, which is scheduled to begin tomorrow at noon. The website for the group that sponsors the event has an interesting fact sheet on rape, which I’ve excerpted below. Considering the amount of misinformation afloat, I think this might be very useful reading:
Myth: Rape doesn’t happen very often.
Fact: 12.1 million American women have been victims of forcible rape. In other words, 13% or one out of eight adult American women has been the victim of forcible rape in her lifetime. (1992)
Myth: Rape is not a big deal. It is just sex.
Fact: Rape is not sex. It is about overpowering the body of another human being. And it is a big deal because “Nearly one-third of all rape victims develop Rape-related Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (RR-PTSD) sometime in their lifetimes, and more than 11% suffer from RR-PTSD at the present time (National Center for Victims of Crime & Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center, 1992).”
Myth: Only strangers commit real rapes.
Fact: Friends or acquaintances of the victims committed over half of these rapes or sexual assaults. Strangers were responsible for about 1 in 5. (Violence Against Women: Estimates from the Redesigned Survey)
Myth: If it is really rape then the victim will report it immediately.
Fact: Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police. (1992) Due to public perception, because of the fear of being blamed, self-blame or post-rape trauma, many rapes are not reported for many months, or even years.
Myth: Rape only happens to women on the streets late at night.
Fact: Nearly 6 out of 10 rapes occur at the victim’s home or the home of a friend, relative, or neighbor. (Greenfeld, 1997)
Myth: I don’t know anyone who’s ever been raped.
Fact: Chances are you do know someone that has been raped. Victims of rape can be family members, friends, people in your community such as doctors, nurses, engineers, social workers, clergy, teachers, children, adults and teenagers.
Myth: Many women “cry rape” to get back at the men they are accusing.
Fact: According to the FBI, less than 2% of rapes are falsely reported.
Myth: Women who claim they were raped are really just looking for attention.
Fact: The attention gained by being raped is not something a person would want. Rape is a very difficult, traumatic experience to overcome with emotional scars that last for years.
There are more factsheets in the group’s online resource center.
91 Responses to “Myths and Facts About Rape”
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Alon Levy says:
The statistics I’ve seen about how many women are raped vary wildly from factsheet to factsheet, and from survey to survey. The FBI’s annual surveys get figures between 100,000 and 150,000 - their sample size is too low to get more accurate than that. Additional surveys produced by groups against violence against women get results toward the low end of this range. Surveys also get huge variations in the reporting rate, which usually doesn’t square with the actual number of rapes.
April 21st, 2006 at 12:28 am EST -
Martin says:
It has to be difficult to get any accurate information on this crime, as so many go unreported. And I have seen figures on false rape accusations run the gamut from 4% to 45%. I personally know a guy who was falsely accused. Kobe Bryant’s accuser was most definitely lying, and when something like that happens it makes things harder for women who really were raped to come forth with accusations. When it happens or even when it doesn’t happen, this is one crime with a “halo effect” that seems to hurt almost everyone in the blast radius.
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Paul Tergeist says:
Rape is not acceptable in my little world, but many women seem to be against violence of any sort. Unfortunately, that includes an ability to repel a potential rapist.
Problem is, rapists are mental cases to begin with and are just as capable of murder as rape. So you have to decide between having the mentality of a victim and being capable of extreme violence when it is called for. Most women just can’t do it.
I can teach those who want to know, but not in a public forum. I am not interested in being sued by some fucknuts who is maimed by a woman he intended to rape. He should not be alive to sue anyone, but taking a life is harder than one would expect it to be having been conditioned by television.
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Violet says:
And I have seen figures on false rape accusations run the gamut from 4% to 45%.
4% is about the highest credible figure. Unfortunately, Mens Rights Activists are very aggressive in spreading the lie that a huge percentage of rape reports are false. Whenever you see something like 45%, you’re seeing propaganda that originated with MRAs.
Kobe Bryant’s accuser was most definitely lying
I wonder how you can possibly know that? The impression I’ve received from attorneys who followed the case was that the woman was raped and Bryant bought her off.
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Violet says:
Rape is not acceptable in my little world, but many women seem to be against violence of any sort. Unfortunately, that includes an ability to repel a potential rapist.
What are you referring to? What is it women are supposed to do that they refuse to do? Lots of women take self-defense classes, and in the adrenalin rush of an assault I’m sure most women would fight tooth and nail to fend off an attacker.
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Martin says:
I wonder how you can possibly know that? The impression I’ve received from attorneys who followed the case was that the woman was raped and Bryant bought her off.
The defense presented DNA evidence that revealed Kate Faber had sex with another man shortly after the time the alleged rape had occurred. There’s also the little matter of hordes of Faber’s friends telling the media that they’d seen her at a house party within days of the alleged rape, having a great time like everyone else there. I saw a number of those interviews myself. Also, prosecutors failed to disclose to the defense that one of the experts they commissioned concluded that the supposed injuries Faber received could have occurred during consensual sex; whether the guy was full of shit or not, it doesn’t speak well to the integrity of the prosecutors, who are required to disclose everything they have to the defense.
I don’t know where these attorneys you say were following the case got the idea Kobe bought the girl off. The only money she ever got from him came in a settlement of the civil suit that she chose to file before the criminal case — in which she had already made up her mind not to testify — even went to trial. Filing civil suits before a verdict is reached in a criminal trial is almost never done, and it was her doing this the caused the case to be dismissed, not any payoff of Kobe’s. Does it look like she was after the guy’s money all along? I can’t say for sure, but it appears that way to me. She also had to give back the 20 grand she got from a victim’s compensation fund after it began to look to everybody like money was her motive the whole time.
Not that I’m defending Kobe. Any guy with a hot wife like he has who goes off screwing around gets no respect from me.
Whenever you see something like 45%, you’re seeing propaganda that originated with MRAs.
Oh I see. As opposed to WRAs, who always tell the truth and never spread propanganda, yes? :)
Look, I know that among a lot of feminists, the mere accusation of rape is as good as a conviction. But how is it any more just or truthful to claim all men’s rights advocates lie than it is to claim all accusers lie?
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tigtog says:
Myth: Rape is not a big deal. It is just sex.
One of the best dialogues in fiction about the “it’s just sex” and “women like it really” myths that I’ve come across was of all places in a fantasy novel aimed at teens, written by Mercedes Lackey.
Paraphrased from memory: dialogue between a pair of runaways, a just-pubescent girl with her much younger brother, about their older sister who has been kept as a sex-slave in their community and repeatedly whipped and raped.
Bro:
I kinda knew. (defensive) The other boys said that all girls like it, really.
Sis:
(after pause) Do you like cakes?
Bro:
You know I do.
Sis:
Would you like it if I made you eat them?
Bro:
Sure I would!
Sis:
What if I kept on pushing them in your mouth after your stomach was full? What if you said no, and then I held you down and pushed them into your mouth with a stick, and didn’t care if I bust your lip and broke your teeth doing it? And I didn’t stop even though you were choking and bleeding?
Bro:
(pause and look of dawning horror) That wasn’t what it was like for her, was it?
Sis:
Yes. You don’t think she liked that, do you?
Bro:
No.
[dialogue goes on to further educate little brother]
I’ve swayed a couple of “it’s just sex” proponents with that example.
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Violet says:
I don’t know where these attorneys you say were following the case got the idea Kobe bought the girl off.
I’ve read that from a couple of legal experts, including the columnist in Sports Illustrated. The analyses of the case I’ve read are greatly different from yours.
Look, I know that among a lot of feminists, the mere accusation of rape is as good as a conviction.
I’ve been a feminist all my life, and I’ve never known any feminst who believes that a mere accusation of rape is as good as a conviction. What feminists know is that rape is like other major crimes: the vast majority of rape claims are true. Only a tiny percentage are false, exactly in line with the level of false accusations in other crimes. What feminists want is for rape to be treated appropriately.
Instead, rape is the only major crime in which it is routine to question whether a crime even happened and to put the victim on public trial. There is simply no justification for this. None.
But how is it any more just or truthful to claim all men’s rights advocates lie than it is to claim all accusers lie?
Because they do. MRAs are dishonest. They spread lies and propaganda. If you are unclear on this, I’ll find websites to direct you to. MRAs are about as reliable on women’s issues as Stormfront is on Jewish issues.
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Violet says:
Oh for heaven’s sake, you’re an MRA troll. I’m deleting your comment. This is not a forum for MRA lies.
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Alon Levy says:
MRAs are about as reliable on women’s issues as Stormfront is on Jewish issues.
You mean Jews aren’t conspiring to control the world and destroy all that is good and decent in it?
This is not a forum for MRA lies.
Okay, but shouldn’t this be a forum for refutations of MRA lies? For example, Martin’s Salon article misses the point because the research it cites is based on a tiny sample size, so that when its figure conflicts with the FBI’s 2%, there’s no question that the FBI is right; further, its “feminists do XYZ” claim is simply a variation on the standard “some people…” weaseling expression.
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Violet says:
I hear you, but the thing is, if I let MRAs post here it will just ruin the place. It’s tiresome and it drowns out real discussion. It also drives away feminists: personally I no longer even visit blogs that play host to MRAs. I want to have enlightened discussion with other people, not constantly rehash the same old arguments, refute the same old lies, and listen to that same old anti-woman whining.
On a more personal note, a number of women who comment and read here are survivors of sexual violence. They are my welcome guests, and I don’t want to subject them to the sneering disdain the MRA crowd specializes in.
I know I was quick to cut off Martin, but the last MRA posted about a dozen comments in quick succession when I was away from the blog.
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Paul Tergeist says:
From 5:What are you referring to? What is it women are supposed to do that they refuse to do? Lots of women take self-defense classes, and in the adrenalin rush of an assault I’m sure most women would fight tooth and nail to fend off an attacker.
-VI am referring to the standard training presented during rape classes in the seventies: “Ladies, the man could kill you. So don’t fight him, relax and enjoy it”. No BS, that’s what they were teaching. So I ups and says “WHOA!” If someone attacks you, AND MIGHT KILL YOU ANYWAY, kill him first. And I tought them how to do just that..without being buffed on steroids; without spending 6 years earning a black belt sparring with someone in a dojo. AND I CAUGHT HELL FOR EVEN SUGGESTING IT, mostly from the women I was instructing. “Oh, I could never do THAT to someone!” Fine, sez I….get raped and murdered.
It has even happened in this very blog. I suggest women train in the use of firearms and carry one, and was told that the attacker would most likely have one too, and would have the element of surprise, so why bother. I’ll tell you why bother. If you are willing to fight someone to the death to keep your little daughter from being raped and murdered, you should be willing to do the same for yourself, but scratching and kicking is generally ineffective. You must be willing to kill or maim an attacker and go about it quickly and methodically when the time comes.
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Violet says:
I am referring to the standard training presented during rape classes in the seventies: “Ladies, the man could kill you. So don’t fight him, relax and enjoy it”. No BS, that’s what they were teaching.
I believe you, but I think things have changed since then. Self-defense classes teach women to knee their assailant, jab him in the eyes, use car keys as a weapon, etc. No “relax and enjoy it.”
There probably is difficulty in teaching women to fight effectively because we simply aren’t socialized to violence the way males are. Guys learn to use their fists, they fight and tussle as they’re growing up, etc. — girls don’t do that stuff. It’s difficult to overcome our inhibitions in the absence of a huge adrenalin response, which the artificial atmosphere of a self-defense class doesn’t really provide.
As for the gun control argument, wasn’t it Alon who said those things? But that’s right, Alon is really a girl. Though I don’t disagree with him. I mean her.
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Alon Levy says:
I’ll tell you why bother. If you are willing to fight someone to the death to keep your little daughter from being raped and murdered, you should be willing to do the same for yourself, but scratching and kicking is generally ineffective.
Which is why I think self-defense classes are a very good idea. I don’t even mind teaching anyone how to use a gun properly; that’s about the one issue I think the NRA is right on. What I do mind is the idea that giving people more guns will achieve anything good.
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Jim Deeny says:
Thanks Violet for this particular post!
I’m really begininning to see exactly what rape is all about. Not only through this post but also over at the DOJ site and others as well. I was very disturbed at some of the articles and statistics. As far as MRA’s, they should be ashamed of themselves for representing a one-sided feud. I would think if your a true MRA, you would takie into account the stat’s all all sides of any situation, they need to take their blinders off for starters. Good idea on the self defense Alon, I’ve seen that before. I’d love to see what type of litigation in a case where a woman beat the shit out of a potential raper, I wonder what the accused rapers attorneys said or even what the defense was, I’m curious. -
Deb Beardsley says:
Thanks Violet for stating the facts and dispelling the myths once and for all. If only the ignoramousus out there would sit up, take notice and learn. After 2 years of investigation by the CIB, my rape/sexual violation case against a close family friend whom I regarded as family from the day I ws born (and also a prominent socilaite and local politician!!) is beginning a reinvestigation. Even these so called proffessional crime busters choose to remain blind to the facts. Please go to http://www.sast.org.nz, click on to survivors stories and read ‘Butterflies are free’. This merely skims the surface. I will not get anywhere with my case, I know that. I am a little person (and a female at that) in a male dominated, political, social and wealthy battle but I am determined to push for changes to the law and to create public awareness of the horror and devastation of rape and abuse and am present pushing members of parliament to do something. It is a battle I am fighting on my own but enough is enough!!!! Lobbying to create awareness and push for change is vital . Anybody concerned or even remotely interested PLEASE voice your concerns (amger/frustration!!!!!) to Hon Annette King, Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.
Thank you Violet. Your post was most empowering and given me the willpower. strength and determination to keep going!!!! -
Jim Deeny says:
Deb, keep in mind that we ALL want equality in this world, so be sure in your quest that you don’t go from being oppressed to being the oppressor, that would defeat your purpose, rock on!
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Infidel says:
I apologize ahead of time for the cold look at numbers I am about to embark upon.
Aren’t many rapists repeat offenders and wouldn’t that skew the number of male participants in rape.
It isn’t as if there would be a balancing out by gang rape.
Is a gang rape counted as one? -
Infidel says:
The one in eight number wouldn’t change. It is revolting. I am just trying to get my mind around these numbers. Please, God, sombody, help us.
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Infidel says:
Violet,
You mentioned your brother.
My sister and I had “tickle fights” as kids.
The activity was very physical and would invariably get to the point where one of us would say, “Okay! ENOUGH!” then the other would promise to stop, and would, only long enough for the other’s guard to be let down and then back at it…”STOP! STOP! STOP”
Okay, it was play and I am not saying its the same as rape but could it have been conditioning. Something women grow out of but some men don’t or can’t?
It would certainly be construed as rape- as intensely as our fights were fought, if we were to do it without consent to strangers as adults. It wasn’t always me that would win- I would really, REALLY not want to get tickled any more, and just when I thought it was over…we were pretty well matched. Good memories.
Lion cubs learning how to kill? -
CR says:
Paul, that is great that you have a self defense class for ladies. You are doing a good thing. but I have to say that those things only work once n a while. If you attacker is three times stronger than you and you try to fight him it will only make him more angry than he was before and he will beat the tar out of you. It is as if you were going hand to hand with Andre the Giant ( He’s a wonderful man- I am only using his name because he is famous for being big and stong). He would beat the tar out of you. Then not only would you be raped, you would have to live with the memory of the added humiliation of being beaten up. I do not know which is harder to get get over.
I would like say to anyone who has bean beaten or raped, no one can take anything away from you. They cannot touch you on the inside. You are still the same- only more wise from your experience. They cannot hurt you. Only you can hurt yourself on the inside by how you view your experiences. They only hurt themselves. In trying to hurt you they hurt themselves and must now live with what they do/did. You are still you. No one can take that away.
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Txfeminist says:
my blog’s infested with MRA’s right now. They wrote me up on SYG as Evil Enemy #1 a couple days ago.
I’ve been playing whack a troll for days. They’re not welcome, but I think there’s some value in debunking their crap, and I kind of enjoy watching them slink off with their tail between their legs.
I did have to close the last Duke thread.The storm does seem to be passing now.
I hope you will still come visit me, Vi!
Seriously, I did want to comment on the idea that taking a self-defense class will help you fend off rapists.
The fact is most rapes are committed by someone a woman knows. Do you know how hard it is to inflict violence on a husband, boyfriend or other family member whom you love (whether they deserve it or not) ?
Do you know what happens to women in the court room who have “fought back”? If a man has one scratch on them a woman can get arrested for assault - suddenly, she’s the perpetrator. This is especially true in domestic violence cases.
As far as other scenarios- how is one woman going to fend off a gang rape?
The best chance a woman has for fending off a stranger rape (least common scenario, by the way) is, scream your head off if a stranger tries to mug, assault, attack, abduct you.
Then again, all of this puts the onus back on women to prevent men from raping them, when the focus should be on teaching men NOT TO RAPE.
sigh.
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Alon Levy says:
Well, ask yourself this: how come in Europe, the lifetime rape rate ranges from 1 woman in 60 to 1 in 40?
Also, is the “one scratch on the man” standard true for rape? You say it holds for battery, which it probably does, but does it also hold for rape cases?
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CR says:
Yes TX, I think that most of the time- not always, of course, but most of the time the abuser is someone the person knows and loves. And with abuse like that the person must live for years with her abuser/s and try to ‘get along” the best she can in the environment she is finding herself in. it becomes a serious physcological minefield she must navigate.
In the case of the “dark street corner’ type of rape if you fight your attacker and loose that fight- she’s going to be feeling some pain because he’s going to beat the living tar out of her. Screaming at the top of her lungs is probably the only thing she can do. but if he is determined to assualt her- as Paul knows. One heavy thud with a strong first in the right place will send her mute. And reeling and confused for days to come.
I am not saying that a woman should ‘just do nothing and enjoy it” NO, I do not believe that anyone who realy was a rape victem even ever really said those words. It was said by a misguided male or no one at all. Not even in the goofy 70s.
I do not know what to do if you are being abused because it is a very complicated affair most of the time. it is easy to say that woman should turn in their abusers to the police- go through the court- fight off their attackers and carry a gun. But for many woman and girls they are not able becasue of complex phycholigical issues that am not articulate enought to explain. but just because I can’t explain them doesn’t mean they are not true. I also did my own private little study that was not very scientific and have come to find that the occurance of sexual abuse for woman and girls is even higher than 1 in 8. But it was my own private study and you should not go by it. But I do and I know why but can’t explain it to anyone else. It’s not important anyway.and to Deb- you are doing something very good in the world. We need you. You are a heroine.
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Infidel says:
CR,
Since you mentioned abuse and have bundled it with rape, I’d like to expand my male violence nurtured in youth postulate. Young boys can nearly orgasm at the prospect of beating the tar out of each other on the football field. There is nothing to compare with drawing a bead on a ball carrier in full flight and laying on the lumber. At a young age there is much tolerance and certain consent for such activity. Lion cubs learning to kill? For all I know it is in me to rape or abuse someone tommorow, or murder. I’d like to think it more likely Jesus would appear at the United Nations Security Council and I think that is so. So who are these millions of perpetrators? Men. Men that what? -
CR says:
I am so sorry Infidel. I do not understand what you are trying to say. But yes, I DO bundle rape and sexual abuse together. After that, I do not understand you. Can you say it different words?
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Justice is Coming says:
Charles Ponzi certainly couldn’t be faulted for a lack of ingenuity. Way back in 1820 Mr. Ponzi began to lure people in with the promise of double your money in 90 days. Word spread, and soon Ponzi found himself ensconced in a 20-room mansion and was raking in $1 million a week.
A similar Ponzi scheme is at work today. This time it’s an ideological pyramid scam, and it has to do with families and fathers.
The Mother of All Confabulations goes back to 1986. That’s when feminist Phyllis Chesler alleged in her book Mothers on Trial that divorcing fathers win child custody in 70% of cases.
Never mind that the actual number of fathers winning custody was only 15%. [Read] And don’t worry that Chesler’s conclusion was based on a sample of 60 discontented women referred by feminist lawyers — still, it made for a great story.
A decade later, the National Organization of Women was beginning to run out of real issues. So it set out to invent new outrages calculated to rally the faithful.
In 1996 the N.O.W.-nincompoops passed a resolution that repeated Chesler’s bogus 70% custody figure. Then they added a new twist, claiming that patriarchal oafs who wanted to stay involved in their children’s lives after a divorce represented an “abuse of power in order to control in the same fashion as do batterers.” [Read]
How’s that for high-decibel gender-baiting?
That claim may have succeeded in swelling the N.O.W. membership rolls, but it still needed some scientific apple-polishing. So they brought in the Wellesley Centers for Women, a group with an impeccable reputation for research integrity.
Well, almost. It was the WCW, of course, that had earlier published that fraudulent fiction of female academic underachievement, How Schools Shortchange Girls.
And sure enough, the Wellesley women delivered. In 2002 the WCW published “Battered Mothers Speak Out: A Human Rights Report on Domestic Violence and Child Custody in the Massachusetts Family Courts.” People were ecstatic because the report vindicated everything that the N.O.W. had been saying.
Take look closer, and you see the WCW report is based on interviews with a small group of 40 Massachusetts women. Worse, the report lacks any objective proof of their allegations of rampant legal bias.
Which once again proves you can reach almost any conclusion, just so long as you’re allowed to hand-pick your subjects and don’t ask too many hard questions.
Soon, the whole M.O.M. Squad — Joan Meier, Jay Silverman, Lundy Bancroft, and others — was singing the Chesler catechism. Take a look at what they pass off as “research,” and you’ll see they all reference each other in an ever-expanding circle of self-serving citations. [Read]
Most disturbing of all is the tale of sociologist Amy Neustein. She was one of the featured speakers at the M.O.M. conference that was recently held in upstate New York. [www.batteredmotherscustodyconference.org]
Last year Neustein wrote a piece in The Jewish Press alleging her ex-husband sexually abused their daughter Sherry. Neustein won lots of sympathy points telling people she lost the custody battle due to a “malfunctioning court system that punished me for trying to protect my daughter from abuse.” [www.amyneustein.com/childless.htm]
But a few months later Sherry, now a graduate student in New York City, came along with a rather different account: “She would begin by telling me a sordid — and false — story about my father, such as a detailed account about how he had molested me or about how he had thrown me violently against a wall.… The truth, however, is that my father never sexually abused me.” [Read]
And let’s not forget Sadiya Alilire, the woman who was portrayed in PBS’ Breaking the Silence as a heroic mom who was done wrong by the legal system — but was later outed by court documents proving her to be a serial child abuser. [Read]
Seven months after Charles Ponzi set up shop, his house of cards began to collapse. On August 10, 1920 the newspapers revealed Mr. Ponzi was bankrupt and pronounced his scheme an odious ruse. He was later sentenced to five years in prison.
But 20 years after Phyllis Chesler made her preposterous claim, her siren call of family destruction continues to make the rounds. Worse, the Mothers Opposed to Men are on the offensive, setting up websites, attracting sympathetic media coverage, and lobbying state legislators.
This time, it’s not persons’ money that’s at stake. It’s our families that need to be shored up, and our children who desperately need their fathers. [Read]
Remember how the Great Society evicted fathers from their homes and turned Black families into wards of the government? That’s what the M.O.M. Squad has in mind for the rest of us.
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Infidel says:
CR,
I read “abuse” by itself in your #24 statement. I thought you were talking about physical abuse in an abusive(physical) relationship. Sexual abuse vs Physical abuse. Wife beating vs wife raping. I don’t know - it all sucks.
My pedantry was not random- I’m trying to make the point that ties in with the Purity Ball thread about the effect of childhood nurturing on adult perpetrators. Also I am investigating my own manhood and trying to use communication to better myself. I would hope you don’t feel used and I’ll use you anyway. -
Infidel says:
Justice is Coming,
It is the Justice Department:U.S. Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs 810 Seventh Street N.W. Washington, DC 20531 Alberto R. Gonzales Attorney General
Regina B. Schofield Assistant Attorney General Glenn R. Schmitt Acting Director, National Institute of Justice
whose Stats are being presented in this thread. -
Txfeminist says:
Justice Is Coming is clearly an MRA troll.
He is spewing the typical crap they usually like to spew.
Not only that, but he is completely off topic.
What a bunch of drivel; it’s not even worth debating this clown.
He has no understanding of how to read these statistics or what they mean, he just has an axe to grind.
Readers, I refer you to Trish Wilson’s extensive library which is available to refute all of the Father’s Rights–oops, I mean Batterer’s Rights–bogus rhetoric.
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CR says:
Infidel,
I was talking about sexual/physical abuse and rape in the same breath. but I meant about women, girls and also boys being abused by fathers, brothers, family frineds, mothers, people in authority and trust and also the sex trade of minors. As well as the rape by strangers. I put it all together in my mind.I am not a man, you are so you know more about it than I do. But it ssems to me that males entertain and feed that part of ourselves that is ‘dark” for lack of a better word. There is alot of rationalizing certain sexaul thoughts and behavoiur among males that woman will not- generally speaking. So SOME Males seems like they have no internal line they will not cross to entertain their (I hate this word but I have to use it) “perversions” or maybe a kinder gentler phrase is “sexual interests”. They will find sometimes cold intellectual “reasons” why it’s okay to do what they do. ‘I’m not a child molestor- I’m just looking at pictures of it” For example. Or ” this female has no respect for herself why should I?” Or they will reduce it all to just a cold business transaction. Or any number of other “reasons” for indulging sexual interests that involve what I veiw as abuse. They let nasty desires grow inside them, they entertain those thoughts and search out situations where they can act on them. it’s almost like a hobby for some of these fellows. situations where and act on them I cannot honestly say that it is only males- it’s just mostly male in nature.
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Infidel says:
These undetected rapists:
• are extremely adept at identifying “likely” victims, and testing prospective victims’ boundaries;
• plan and premeditate their attacks, using sophisticated strategies to groom their victims for attack, and to isolate them physically;
• use “instrumental” not gratuitous violence; they exhibit strong impulse control and use only as much violence as is needed to terrify and coerce their victims into submission;
• use psychological weapons – power, control, manipulation, and threats – backed up by physical force, and almost never resort to weapons such as knives or guns;
• use alcohol deliberately to render victims more vulnerable to attack, or completely unconscious.In addition, the majority of undetected rapists are serial rapists who also commit other forms of serious interpersonal violence. In a study of 120 undetected rapists in the Boston area 63% were serial rapists. These 76 serial rapists had, on average, attacked 14 victims, and were responsible for:
• 439 rapes and attempted rapes
• 49 sexual assaults
• 277 acts of sexual abuse against children
• 66 acts of physical abuse against children
• 214 acts of battery against intimate partnersthese are year 2000 stats.
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CR says:
I am generalizing. but I have to say that every male I know- what is the first thing they look up when they first got their computer? Their interests and hobbies- maybe Ebay. and what is the very second thing they did? Porno surfing. It is the way of the world. Oh! present company of males excluded- no doubt. ;-)
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CR says:
I was writng at the same time as you Infidel. that was a great post you just did. I read it twice.
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Infidel says:
I had no clue and for my virgin surf had an interest in a painting called Hylas and the Nymphs or something.
What came back when I put that in the search bar, you can only imagine.
So it wasn’t intentional on my part that my early forays into cyberland were on a par with your assumption. I do not exclude myself. I would like to understand myself- duh! understand myself…like I don’t know what I’m talking about.
I take no credit for the dated stats I posted- Once again they were from the Department of Justice. USA. -
CR says:
giggle… I now what you are talking abuot. I was trying to look up Confusious on the internet and misspelled it. What came up were things that the normal mind cannot even comprehend- it was so degenerate. Even if you are not trying to find that stuff it finds you. But as one of my male friends says, for a man- it is nearly impossible to look away. It is like it is stronger than them. The curiousity is to strong for most. For most females- not so much. Maybe it scares them because they know what they are actually seeing. Oh well, them’s the breaks. Best wishes, Infidel.
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Steve says:
Damn, Justice is Coming, I wish you were a student of mine and had just handed me that post as a paper. I just graded some papers, all of which were well done, and I am feeling the need to kick some ass.
Seriously, I am going to distribute it to several of my classes. I am not sure I have ever seen a better example, and a pretty damn hilarious one at that, of someone who first criticizes a series of sources for inadequate empircal data and then goes on to embarrass himself by making even more ‘data- free” assertions of his own.
If you want to b a polemicist, go for it. You’re not that entertaining, but — hell — there’s room in the blogosphere for anyone.
But for god’s sakes, don’t step into the realm of social science or even basic research methods when you apparently don’t have even a basic stat course under your belt.
You are right. Phyllis Chesler has never done any serious original empirical research. But aren’t you even a little embarrassed to refute her claim with your own set of unsubstantiated polemical claims?
Even a good polemicist should at least be able to fake some awareness of what data is and what it isn’t.
Tell me the truth. Aren’t you even a little embarrassed ?
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Paul Tergeist says:
From 14: Which is why I think self-defense classes are a very good idea. I don’t even mind teaching anyone how to use a gun properly; that’s about the one issue I think the NRA is right on. What I do mind is the idea that giving people more guns will achieve anything good.
-AlonMOST women feel that way. You want to be equal and you don’t want to be raped but if you ARE raped you don’t want to make the rapist mad. So it’s better not to try to defend yourself because you can rationalize all of the ways you might not succeed.
That is wrongheaded. You have already decided to be a victim, you are just waiting for so0meone to come along and victimize you. And if he does, you will probably spend the rest of your life blaming every man you meet.
Really, some of you have to step up and accept responsibility for your own lives and bodies.
to 31: Don’t start that ‘male perversion’ stuff with me. How many women are in the news for having it off with their students? Although it’s not rape if a woman does it because she uses a different type of coercion, there are just as many perv femmes as men.
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Violet says:
So, Paul, is it your position that we all need to be packing heat? Women, I mean. We all need to be equipped with glocks and ready to use them?
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CR says:
Paul,
If you look a bit more at my post I was saying that it is not only males who are give themselves over to such perversions. Only I do not believe about your statement saying that there are just as many female pervs as males. It is not statisticly so. But I do not make a difference in my mind about males and females that way.As for people deciding to be a victem and blaming every male they know. Oh! For Pete’s. Sake! I think it’s great you are doing a self defense class. I have taken such classes myself. The teachers are wonderful and doing a superb thing in the world. Like Galahads. Teaching ladies and children how to fight. It’s a good thing to know if it ever comes about that one cane actually use it and has the presence of mind at the time of an assault. A gal can do alot of damage, no doubt about it.
but in the REAL world of rape and assault- the one I know of intimately. A small girl or child will get the tar beat out of her if she is not successful in her fight- especially if she knows her abusers or must live with them for years. There’s no blaming or taking responsibility. It just is what it is. But it’s VERY educational if it ever happens to you. The one thing a person - male or female can do is take responsiblity for the aftermath. Take responsiblity for what happens to your mind and spirit afterward. That is something that can be a very good thing- and makes you untouchable on the inside.another thing- a small thing, that someone can do that sometimes works is look your abuser in the eyes. Do not look down or away if you can help it. Look at them with no fear or confusion. Remove it from your eyes and look at them. Nor look in judgement or anger or hatred if you can. Keep those thought out of your eyes. But a calmness and unafraid- even if you are. The act of looking at them in their eyes seems at times to have the effect of snapping them back themeselves and out of that strange thing that has come over them. And the other thing is that if you can get out- do so. As soon as the circumstances arise. And the other thing is pretend to be like Sheharazad if you cannot get out right then. Use every ounce of self control you have and speak to your abuser. This calm, fearless kind of speach as if you speaking to a normal person can sometimes buy you time. But none of this works evey time. Just some of the time.
I can speak too about this, okay Paul. My opinion is no less valuable than yours this time around.
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Infidel says:
Fucked-uppedness aside,
Is it myth or fact you’re less likely to be raped by a fucktard than an atheist?
Priests?
Criminally insane religious(hearing voices)?
They’ve gotta be statistically significant for being serial offenders.
The bulk of rapists gotta be former sincere fucktards, steeped in misogyne, jaded with an unbelievable doctrine and couldn’t care less what anyone fucking thinks, let alone some pie in the sky God- that could rape an aquantance, friend, or lover.
Glocks would cost as much as some kind of “I’m being raped and can’t get up GPS techno911″ kind of thing. Response centers would be innundated but then so would emergency rooms with the glock solution. -
Violet says:
I am determined to push for changes to the law and to create public awareness of the horror and devastation of rape and abuse and am present pushing members of parliament to do something. It is a battle I am fighting on my own but enough is enough!!!!
Deb, I admire so much your strength and determination. I wish you all the best.
I hope you will still come visit me, Vi!
I’ve been trying to visit you for days, but my comments get swallowed up. I thought you’d banned me. Did you get the email I sent you?
Well, ask yourself this: how come in Europe, the lifetime rape rate ranges from 1 woman in 60 to 1 in 40?
Alon, what is the connection you’re making? I’m not clear.
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Infidel says:
Excuse me,
Fucked-uppedness of Fucktards aside.
Are Fucktards less likely to rape? -
CR says:
Infidel, is Fucktards the same as religious people? If so, I think they are the same likely. I do not have data. It just appears so in my experience. There is something in their heads that makes them so. I do not know what it is. They compartimentalize their behaviour within their own minds.
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Violet says:
You have already decided to be a victim, you are just waiting for so0meone to come along and victimize you. And if he does, you will probably spend the rest of your life blaming every man you meet.
That strikes me as unusually trollish, even for a poltergeist.
Paul, haven’t you said that you fought in Vietnam? Aren’t you a former Marine (I’m not sure)? Obviously you’re a man. Can you put yourself in the shoes of, say, a 12-year-old female child who’s being raped by her uncle? How about of a 98-pound woman who’s being gang-raped by football players?
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Paul Tergeist says:
No, but I can put myself in the shoes of a twelve year-old boy who was molested by the school principal on a field trip. I had been asleep, but as soon as I woke up and realized something was wrong I grabbed the knife I had been using for gutting fish and swung it in the darkness.
I am not saying all women should be packing Glocks and I am not being trollish. I am saying that I have never raped anyone and the act, or even the very idea seems horrible. But this isn’t some dreamworld. People are animals. Some respect the covenants of society and some don’t but in EVERY case I have ever heard of, the moment a #2 pencil or a ballpoint pen enters a rapist’s eyeball the rape is over.
I am saying that if you have the mentality of a victim, you can be victimized. You can choose not to be an exotic dancer at a party of football players and you may need to realize that even though you locked up your house when you went to the store, the windows are made of glass.
If you are walking home in the middle of the night and you are the only one on the street or road, something might well happen to you no matter who you are, no matter what sex. There are predators out there waiting for YOU to make yourself vulnerable.
The uncle thing is tougher. I’d tell my father. If he didn’t get me justice I suppose I’d wait until uncle was asleep and sink an icepick in his ear because you know it’s going to keep happening if he gets away with it once. Most girls won’t do that. Most boys will.
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Violet says:
Trying to deal with the troll issue.
Martin submitted the following comment (which has been hung up in the moderation queue) in response to my having deleted a comment from him last night:
So simply because I question your unsupported assertion that any figure other than 4% for false rape accusations is “lies and propaganda,” and I provide sources that show multiple studies that reveal higher figures (including a quote from a female NYC police officer–heaven forbid anyone sees that!), that makes me an “MRA troll”? Interesting, considering that I’d never even heard the term “MRA” before you used it.
That’s the kind of pathetic reactionary childishness I’d expect from a fundamentalist Christian site or Free Republic, Violet. Trolls, for your information, come on to blogs simply to insult and offend. I was attempting to engage in discourse. Apparently that’s only allowed here if people already agree with you.
Well, Martin, you didn’t just question my assertion — which, far from being unsupported, is standard information from the FBI. You mentioned some questionable surveys as if they were reliable, and rather aggressively described feminists and sexual violence workers as liars.
Since you say you’re completely naive about this issue, I’ll take you at your word and explain. The FBI/DOJ and other national crime centers have consistently found over the years that false rape claims run at the same rate as false claims of other crimes. The old myth that women cry rape for revenge, extortion, or attention is just that — a myth. It’s part of a package of patriarchal notions about women’s sexuality that includes: a) rape is a woman’s fault; b) women who get raped were asking for it; c) most rape victims are really just bitches/sluts who changed their mind, etc.
Mens Rights Activists are dedicated to overturning the gains of feminism, including the hard-won changes in the justice system that have been put in place to combat the myths I just cited above. And their standard tactic is to publicize bogus statistics which allegedly demonstrate that most women are liars. When examined, these statistics are always revealed as being based on very questionable data. The surveys are either cooked (like the military’s, as revealed by an independent DOD review) or completely out of left field, like that crime novelist/former prosecutor you mentioned. The 2-4% figure comes from the FBI and DOJ, and has been confirmed many times over the years.
Of course some people lie about being raped, just as some people lie about being robbed and some people fake their own deaths. Actually, I think according to the FBI, more people fake their own deaths than lie about being raped. So you see, it’s not a big problem. The big problems with rape are its ubiquity, the fear and shame that keep women from reporting it, and the difficulties victims and prosecutors face in overcoming those old myths — the same old myths the MRAs are busy perpetuating.
Now here’s why I deleted your comment: MRAs are in the habit of visiting feminist blogs and posting their bogus statistics about rape. Every discussion about sexual violence, its causes and effects, etc., is at risk of being derailed by these guys with their same old propaganda. Those of us who run feminist blogs frankly have to make a decision: are we going to let the trolls in and therefore have every single discussion reduced to this same Introduction to Crime Statistics 101 argument, or are we going to keep them out so we can have a substantive discussion? I’ve obviously chosen the latter. I’m also choosing very deliberately to make this a “safe,” respectful place for my visitors who are the survivors of sexual violence.
If you had simply asked about the statistics you’d seen, it would have been different. But when you cited them together with the comment that obviously feminists are liars — well, that kinda spelled troll to me. If I was wrong, then I apologize.
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Violet says:
Most boys will.
Well, those poor boys in the Archdiocese of Boston didn’t. There are a few priests who should have had icepicks in the ear for sure. But good for you with the knife. I’m very sorry that happened to you. Did you draw blood?
As for the rest — what is your program? That’s what I’m asking. Understanding that those most likely to be raped are the weak and the young, what do we do? Of course as Txfeminist points out, the onus for stopping rape should be on the would-be rapists — but for now let’s just go with the view of us as animals in a dangerous world, needing to fend off sexual predators. Do we start teaching children karate from age six? Do we raise up little warriors, male and female? I’m seriously asking you.
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RedDragon says:
That brings up another problem. If we raise girls AND boys as martial artists, then surely the girls have lost their advantage? I’m fairly sure I could deflect an unskilled attacker with a revival of my rusty martial arts skills, but it would be a miracle if I could fight off a rapist with a black belt (and weapons, or what-have-you) Just a thought.
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CR says:
Paul, you are one scrappy little guy. And one tough fellow as a amn. Good man, you are. And so I will not argrue with you about the rest. Although some of this stuff is not realistic. but it’s fun to talk about it.
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RedDragon says:
btw Violet, I’m honoured that you quoted me.
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CR says:
Paul, please understand. To me you are a like a Hero. A brave person. Showing people maybe less strong how to defend themselves and also giving them empowerment. I mean to you no disrespect. It’s only when speaking about the sort of thing we are talking about- it gets complicated. One can’t kill one’s own Uncle. Or Father or Mother. most epople are not scrappy enough for such things.
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Violet says:
RedDragon, it was a great comment, and it zeroed right in on what needed to be said. The miasma of doubt that surrounds every rape case needs to be dispelled by some hard facts about just how common sexual assault really is.
And CR, you’re exactly right. Paul’s self-defense program has its merits, but it won’t help those children who are assaulted by their own parents and guardians.
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Alon Levy says:
Alon, what is the connection you’re making? I’m not clear.
The connection I’m making is that to my knowledge, nobody in Europe has tried “teaching men not to rape” or anything like that, and still it has a fraction of the USA’s rape rate… but you already know my position here.
My point is, even in the rape-happy US, something like 94% of men aren’t rapists, so “putting the onus on men” is probably going to be ineffective. After all, the drop in intimate murder in the US came not from teaching men it isn’t alright to kill their wives, but from empowering women and creating a social structure in which they can walk out more safely. Hence it’s likely that an effective rape policy will imitate the success of feminist battery policies.
If we raise girls AND boys as martial artists, then surely the girls have lost their advantage?
Not necessarily, since rapists are likely to come from such backgrounds that they won’t have an opportunity to take advantage of these martial arts classes (but then again, so are most rape victims).
Furthermore, martial arts are even better equalizers than guns, since you can’t use them at a range, so that the attacker’s advantage of surprise is nullified. An armed attacker can point his gun at the victim and demand that she toss her own weapon first. A martial artist can’t do that; he has to come up close to his target, and unless he’s much more skilled than she is, he can’t surprise her without risking retaliation.
And CR, you’re exactly right. Paul’s self-defense program has its merits, but it won’t help those children who are assaulted by their own parents and guardians.
Which proportion of rape victims are raped by parents or guardians? I’m not asking in criticism, but in ignorance - I haven’t seen any numbers here, and I think that they’re very relevant.
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Violet says:
My point is, even in the rape-happy US, something like 94% of men aren’t rapists, so “putting the onus on men” is probably going to be ineffective. After all, the drop in intimate murder in the US came not from teaching men it isn’t alright to kill their wives, but from empowering women and creating a social structure in which they can walk out more safely.
I think we can distinguish between two different kinds of rapists. The first kind is the classic sexual predator, and with him, no amount of re-education will work because he’s a freaking psycho who’s acting out his sick compulsion.
But there’s a second kind of rapist: date rapists. These are otherwise ordinary men who believe they have a right to sex from certain women. This is where I think more than 6% of the male population are offenders. And this kind of rape is definitely amenable to re-education. Actually I’ve got a post coming with some numbers on that sort of thing from the Justice Department.
I don’t know the proportion of rapes by parents/guardians, but I’ll see if I can find out.
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Deb Beardsley says:
This is the most empowering and amazing site and bunch of people I have come across in such a long time! Your opinions and knowledge are exciting and stimulating. Justice is most definitely NOT coming - not here in New Zealand anyway. This is why I MUST fight and push for changes. No,I will not become the oppressor as mentioned previously. I need to fight for Justice, create awareness and hopefully save lives. Rape and abuse of any sort is not to be tolerated - it is a death sentence on the victim and the perpetrator needs to be had for murder!!!
Keep up your responses and Violet - GO my friend - what an awesome and inspiring human being!
Regards -
Infidel says:
One in eight women in the US raped vs. a few thousand gassed Kurds. Maybe women should be thought of in terms of production of humans, that’s gotta be more important than the production of oil.
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Infidel says:
One in eight. And if I read the Justice Department survey right it does not even include children, so you can add to the one in eight number all those hundreds of thousands. It is encouraging someone is studying the problem but these numbers are hard to fathom. How can only 6% of Males account for that- is it 6% because that is the convicted number? This(rape in America) should be front page and lead story till its gone. Bird flu should take a back seat. Government has to step it up a few notches
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Alon Levy says:
That’s because the 1 in 8 figure is to my knowledge inflated. The US government’s official surveys (I think the FBI does them, but I may be wrong and it may be Justice) say that about 110,000 American women are raped per year. In the US, the conversion ratio is 18,000 rape victims per year = 1% lifetime chance for a woman to get raped. So at 110,000, you get that 6% of all American women are raped over a lifetime. So maybe 7% of American men are rapists, because on average there are something like 1.1 perpetrators per rape.
I’ve seen a few other figures about the number of rapes in the US per year, some as low as 35,000 (”one women is raped every 15 minutes”) and some as high as 700,000 (I don’t remember where I read it). The 110,000 figure is the only one that seems repeatable, so for the time being I’ll go with it.
I suppose a huge stumbling block is a definitional problem - if you ask a woman, “have you been raped?” and she was ejaculated on, then she might say yes even though it’s only a sexual assault; on the other hand, if she was forced to give a blowjob, she might say no even though legally it’s rape.
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Violet says:
The US government’s official surveys (I think the FBI does them, but I may be wrong and it may be Justice) say that about 110,000 American women are raped per year.
Actually, the 110,000 rapes are reported rapes. Justice recognizes the severe underreporting problem, which is why the Bureau of Justice Statistics (subset of Justice Dept.) also participates in surveys to get a fuller picture. The survey figures range from 500,000 to 600,000+ rapes of females a year. Justice and the CDC together seem to agree on a conservative figure of about 300,000 rapes of adult women a year (over 18) and perhaps about that same number of child rapes (under 18). The child statistics are fuzzier and include a much higher proportion of male victims.
Believe me, my head is full of these statistics now. I wish it weren’t.
fyi: The FBI is a subset of the Justice Dept. The FBI publishes numbers every year too, but everyone (including them) recognizes their numbers as low because of their reporting methodology. The Bureau of Justice Statistics is another subset of the Justice Dept., devoted to analyzing crime rates, and it has the national figures that everybody goes by. Including the 1 in 8 figure, which is from Justice.
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Infidel says:
About the Kurds, I apologize. My point was infinite compassion with limited resources demands hard choices.
Womens’ place in the production of humans is sacrosanct.
That 1.1 perpetrators per rape,(visions of the guy with a little devil on his shoulder”Do it!”),does it square with serial rapists? Some high profile rapists have numbers attributed to them in tens. I’ve heard priest pedophile’s with hundreds attributed to them. -
Alon Levy says:
No, 90,000 is the reported figure, I think… but then there’s the quote I once heard when I questioned how ubiquitous rape was, “a woman is raped in America every 15 minutes,” and then someone explained to me that that, 35,000, was the reported rate. Rape must be the only crime where even the reported rate has different figures that vary by a factor of 3.
I think I know what survey you’re talking about, and I’m pretty sure that when I looked at it, there were fluctuations from year to year, but the range was 90,000 to 140,000. But anyway, I’ll look at it again later…
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Alon Levy says:
That 1.1 perpetrators per rape,(visions of the guy with a little devil on his shoulder”Do it!”),does it square with serial rapists?
To my understanding, it ignores serial rapists, and concentrates on the number of perpetrators per specific crime. If six men rape one woman each, it’s an average of 1 perpetrator per rape. If one man rapes six women, it’s still an average of 1 per rape.
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Infidel says:
But if six men rape one woman there then would be an average of 1/6th perpetrator per rape.
Somehow I can’t see how any number of rapes could possibly end up with anything but whole numbers of perpetrators. Either one or many, like aboriginal mathmatics.
Alon,
You had used the 1.1perp/rape to arrive at 7%. I would like that number to be less. Serial rapists would bring the number down but then gang rape would bring it right back up again.
Women and boys mostly- and what do they have in common? Less than human in a patriachal society?
Boys become men, they are valued, until they’re men they’re less than human. -
Alon Levy says:
But if six men rape one woman there then would be an average of 1/6th perpetrator per rape.
No, there would be an average of 6 perpetrators per rape. It’s standard to consider one rape to be one act of victimizing one person, so if a gang rapes two women at the same time, it counts as two rapes.
Somehow I can’t see how any number of rapes could possibly end up with anything but whole numbers of perpetrators.
If there are 90,000 individual rapes and 10,000 rapes by two people each, then it averages to 1.1 perpetrator per rape.
Women and boys mostly- and what do they have in common? Less than human in a patriachal society?
Boys become men, they are valued, until they’re men they’re less than human.You have no idea how happy you made me - I think it’s the first time I’ve ever seen any acknowledgement of the undervaluing of young people in modern society, other than one quip about how children are considered property in divorce claims.
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Alon Levy says:
I think a big part of the disagreement about numbers comes from a different counting method. The probability of a woman to be raped is based on the number of rape victims divided by the total number of women, not by the number of adult women. 12.1 million in total is about 150,000 per year, which is at the upper end of the range I use (90,000-150,000), and works out to about 8% of American women. The difference is then less about how many rapes there are, and more about what the total population is…
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Infidel says:
Just for shits and grins:
If there are 90,000 individual rapes and 10,000 rapes by two people each, then it averages to 1.1 perpetrator per rape.If there are 90,000 ind.rapes and 10,000 rapes by two- the 10,000 would be 20,000 and there would be 110,000 rapes- 1per rape.
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Infidel says:
If a gang of 4 rapes two women=2rapes
If a gang of 8 rapes two women=2rapes
12/4=3per rape
or
12/2=6per rape
or
24 rapes? 1per rape -
Violet says:
You’re both ignoring the fact that rape is underreported. If the Dept. of Justice knows that and commissions annual surveys and studies to arrive at the real figure, why do you guys think it makes sense to ignore that? I can’t believe you’re talking about 90,000 rapes a year.
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Infidel says:
I was/am in tears. and sorrofully from discussion I would no longer be suprised with the percentage of women raped actually in truth being any number. Unreported. All those frightened children. Unreported- all those sex workers job hazard, part of the job. Unreported- submissive, beaten wives. Unreported coerced through financial stress. Unreported what about the children, I’ve gotta keep this family together. Unreported- He’ll get his comeuppence, God will see to that. Unreported I’m to handicapped to know what just happened to me, or too young. Unreported It’ll just make it worse. Unreported I shouldn’t have drank so much. Unreported- Whew I’m not pregnant. Unreported on and on
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Violet says:
Yes, and don’t forget: Unreported- no one will believe me.
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appletree » Blog Archive » says:
[...] Reclusive Leftist compiled a series of disturbing statistics on rape in a couple of her recent posts: (link) (link) [...]
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Alon Levy says:
I can’t believe you’re talking about 90,000 rapes a year.
I’m not. I was giving an example of how the number of perpetrators per rape is calculated; I used 100,000 because it’s easy to work with. By the same token I could have said, “Screw the US and its criminality” and used a figure like 5,000.
If the Dept. of Justice knows that and commissions annual surveys and studies to arrive at the real figure, why do you guys think it makes sense to ignore that?
I’m not ignoring that. I’ve just looked, and your 1-in-8 figure is based on both sexual assault and rape. This link refers to a BJS report that is said to be based on a survey. According to that link, the average number of rapes in 2003 and 2004 was 66,000 completed and 43,000 attempted.
Now, the actual rate is probably higher, because the above represents a 31% reduction from 2001-2, and by the BJS’s own admission, it uses small sample sizes. In 2001-2 there were, per year, 87,000 completed and 70,000 attempted rapes. The BJS says that the difference is significant, which it probably is but not to the extent that the number of rapes dropped 31% over 2 years.
Yes, and don’t forget: Unreported- no one will believe me.
Do you think that even surveys have an underreporting problem? I’ve heard something to that effect about Japan, but not about the US.
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Alon Levy says:
If a gang of 4 rapes two women=2rapes
If a gang of 8 rapes two women=2rapes
12/4=3per rape
or
12/2=6per rape
or
24 rapes? 1per rapeI honestly don’t know about gang rape of multiple victims.
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Alon Levy says:
Oh, I’ve just realized something: I should add that the number of rapes per year only indicates future probability of being raped, but not how many women have been raped in the past. It’s prefectly possible to reconcile 110,000 with 12.1 million, since the rape rate today is unusually low compared to the period between 1965 and 1995.
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Infidel says:
Still Alon, by your estimate if I bring ten random men into a room, one of them is likely to have raped a woman.
I would be comfortable if one in ten thought seeing a woman naked wasn’t a gift of intimacy from the woman(bought, by accident, or given).
But touching that woman, and forcibly penetrating that woman, without consent, indeed with objection- I wouldn’t be comfortable with one in ten thousand-for some reason that is rediculous-for some reason packing a room with fifty men (@6% rapists) would find three. Can you get your mind around that? It is hard for me, it is such a shame. -
RedDragon says:
*Do you think that even surveys have an underreporting problem?*
Some people drive stressful events from their minds. Some people don’t want to *admit* it happened to them, even to themselves. Post Traumatic Stress is powerful. Obviously, it is impossible to ever say the numbers of people, women and men, who are effected by this.
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Deb Beardsley says:
I have little faith in stats. Reporting a rape or violation for that matter often goes unrecorded and ignored by police and justice officials when power, wealth, politics, social standing plays a big part on the side of the perpetrator. to be told there were no witnesses, naiivety, immoral and not illegal is slapped on a complaint and to forget about it and be happy that ”you’ve done your bit’ is fed back to the victim it goes unrecorded and this happens all too frequently. Or the file is’lost’ and there is no record of anything. Politics and social standing should not dictate what becomes a stat and what doesn’t. Let’s get some honesty here!!!!! The number of victims would be far far greater if the truth be known.
Intimidation by police and the law also prevents the victim taking further action or the complaint being recorded. FINE - the stats for suicide show a huge increase - I wonder why???!!!!!! -
Infidel says:
There is no one reason. Where do you start. Statistics, Epidemiology. Define: what is a suicide. Group- what are some likely causes. Of these causes how, what is the mechanism of their effect. Can the mehanism be messed with, can the causes be eliminated, can a group be concentrated on so as to maximize limited resource? What are the resources?
Can you correlate increased suicide rates directly to increased rape rates? Should we concentrate on suicide prevention after rape, rape prevention prior to suicide- Well obviously both- but what is more do-able. How do we do it. Who is going to do it? The police, the government, the church, the schools.
The schools are going to educate better, with a well rounded curriculum that will emphasize respect for each other and tolerance of different cultures.
Laws will be rewritten to take the sex out of rape, and treat rape as assault. -
Deb Beardsley says:
Okay - I am a victim, working damned hard at being a survivor and at times wonder why. For 40 of my 43 years I have intermittently endured rape, abuse and violation by no fault of my own. @0 of those years have been spent inhospitals and institutions. I have had my story splashed all through the media. My family have close associations with the church and I am now at present just finishing my counselling diploma and working voluntarily at the sexual abuse survivors trust. My abuse/rape was investigated by police for 2 years and is now under reinvestigation again!!! With having involvement with all of these different outfits I have been fortunate engough to gain facts and figurs otherwise not available or apparent to the average Joe Blogg and have had an insight into how these ’systems’ work. Rape and sexual abuse is a HUGE factor in suicide(attempted) and these figures continue to rise. Eating disorders and addictions of whatever sort are a slow form of suicide - I know. These facts also must be taken into account. The church turns a blind eye (often the perpetrators, hiding behind the cloak of religion) the police are inadeqautely trained to deal with this (young kids who haven’t grown up pass the Starsky and Hutch/Miami Vice stage and have their own ‘Aunties’they make use of WHILE ON DUTY!!!!!
FACT. So rape is a joke to them.
Changes need to be made at government level. Each victim cost the country $100,000 minimum - treatment if necessary, lack of productivity, counselling, legal cost etc. This money needs to be spent in training a specialised team who deal solely with rape and abuse cases and are well versed in all aspects of the same - grooming, Stockholm syndrome, blackmail, emotional blackmail etc…. The victim needs to feel safe and confident in coming forward and stopping these buggers in their tracks and preventing it happening to other innocent people. This is what I am lobbying for and I am determined to educate both the public and the law enforcers EXACTLY what rape is all about!!
If it cost me my life then so be it but at least the point will be made and the ball is rolling towards change - hopefully Universally NOT just here in NZ. -
Alon Levy says:
Your ideas of what should be done sound generally right, Deb… keep on the good work. But can you be a little more specific about what the rape trauma team you propose will do?
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Deb Beardsley says:
I am doing this alone. i am in constant contact with the Minister of Police, Annette King, and am getting somewhere!!! I want changes to the way the law enforcers handle our complaints to make sure the Government brings the real stats out into the public arena so as to create awareness. have done radio inetrviews and newspaper articles stating not only my case and the way the case was mishandled but many others also. Will keep you posted. The times they are a-changing!!!!!!!
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CR says:
Dear Deb,
If you are who I thnk you are I wanted you to know that your story appeared here in California on the International news on television a few months ago. I think you are about the bravest person ever. And starting a quiet but strong movement of people who want to bring these things out of the closet and into the light of public consiousness. I think in the long run- it’s going to bring alot of good. You got yourself one tough fight, though because Boy oh boy! do people not want to deal with it.. You’re a trooper and a real Hero. -
Paul Tergeist says:
From 80: Okay - I am a victim, working damned hard at being a survivor and at times wonder why. For 40 of my 43 years I have intermittently endured rape, abuse and violation by no fault of my own.
-DBAt what point are you going to stop being a victim and decide to protect yourself instead of waiting for the government to do it? I know it sounds callous, but “I am a victim” portrays a different mindset that “I refuse to be victimized.”
Generally, someone who claims to have been victimized for FORTY YEARS is a professional victim or a martyr.
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Violet says:
Generally, someone who claims to have been victimized for FORTY YEARS is a professional victim or a martyr.
Surely you know that’s a ridiculous statement. People who suffer abuse in childhood are the people most likely to suffer abuse in adulthood. It’s not professional martyrdom; it’s just human nature. Freeing oneself from a cycle of abuse begun in childhood is a lot of hard work. To go further, and fight for changes that will help other people, takes great courage.
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Deb Beardsley says:
By getting on track with the Govt I Am helpig myself - by standing up for what I believe in not only to re establish some kingd of self esteem and self worth but to show that others in the same situation have worth and value as well. It IS a well known and documentted fact that those abused in childhood are more likely to be abused in later years. The situation is made worse when the perpetrator is aware of previous childhood abuse.
In regard to stats - in the places I have been in and situations I have across I have never struck anybody from other ethnic races - wheteher this be in eating disorder units, addiction clinics, abuse/rape crisis centres, psych units. This is because as well as our Maori people, the Islanders also who make up a significant proportion of our population deal with these issues amongst themselves and have their own ways of dealing with them. So these numbers are not reported or included in any stats numbers/ Suicides neither are put down to abuse in these groups as there is no awareness of it exisiting!!! The more research i am doing and the mkore I am finding out about this the more action I feel inclined to take in educating the ignorant and pushing for change. -
Paul Tergeist says:
From 85: Surely you know that’s a ridiculous statement.
-VNo, it isn’t. Read 86: “in the places I have been in and situations I have across I have never struck anybody from other ethnic races - wheteher this be in eating disorder units, addiction clinics, abuse/rape crisis centres, psych units.”
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Deb Beardsley says:
maybe you should go to http://www.hopeforhealing.org and read some of the info in there!!!! Where to start is up to you. This week my pushing the Govt HAS made inroads to change - being a victim turned survivor and struggling is not what many of you see as weak etc. The Police now MUST have a female Detective handling complaints by women - especially if it is historical rape and evidence is scant!!! The Hospital Boards also have been made to upfront with stats and admit changes need to be made. My questions are slowly being answered and my perseverance is being fuelled by my anger and the sheer ignorance of some peopl.. I have a long way to go but keep pushing me and you will see what ‘victims’ are really made of.
Feedback please!!!! -
Alon Levy says:
The Police now MUST have a female Detective handling complaints by women - especially if it is historical rape and evidence is scant!!!
Do you mean “must” as in, “Now the police is legally obliged to…” or as in, “I think the police should…”?
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Violet says:
Deb, I’ve tried to email you a couple of times but it gets bounced with an ‘inbox full’ message. I think you’re doing great work and I wish you the best.
Alon, I read that to mean it’s now a requirement.
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Deb Beardsley says:
Okay - you have really got me going now so here goes another speel!!!! I am not sure how other complaints have been handled but in my case it was handled by a male detective with the CIB - a rookie, recently promoted from walking the beat constable to detective. The 3 others involved were also male and I was treated like the proverbial s**t. Really quite intimidating - it was hard enough speaking out and coming forward without being made to feel like a useless female!!! Repeatedly I stated my case by lobbying the Govt and sending info along with posts from here to our Minister of Police. She has made it clear to the Police Dept that it is now a regulation that rape and abuse cases, especially historical cases where a lot of work info gathering is required is handled by a female. Since my case has become Public knowledge a lot of people have approached me with their stories - people in society who have kept quiet about their situations and whom you would not ‘expect’ to have been raped or violated. many have been abused as children, others later in life and have been through depression, ptsd, substance abuse, divorce, attempted suicide, mental illness including eating disorders. These people never went to the police to lay a complaint for many reasons - fear of not being believed, shame and guilt, feeling humiliated at having to giving details to total strangers. These cases of course would never be included in any stats and this is just in my little corner of the World - how many more cases go unreported or unrecognised in other places. In my case I ws told by the police to forget about it and be happy that I had done my bit. That statement really fuelled my fire and has made me determined to get the whole rape issue out in the open and create an environment where others feel safe and confident about coming forward. I will proably get pounced on here but it has come to my attention that those who have been abused in childhood grow accept it as the norm, do nothing about it and go on to be perpetrators themselves - the cycle continues and another case of numbers not being included in any formal stats. No, not all go on to be perpetrators but DO have problems. in my case, the person (animal) involved is not only a politician but also a Justice of the Peace so has a great deal of influence - he has other ‘victims’ who afraid to come forward and speak out against him - 2 have left the city and when approached deny any knowledge of him. More hidden stats.
V - keep trying. I am not that popular!!! Can’t understand why your messages get bounced. Your feedback is VITAL , more so now than ever. Determined to get things here in NZ out of the archaic state it is in and get positive movement.
Deb
