Feminist Flame War: No, your credentials are not in the mail
There’s been a lot of talk lately on the feminist blogosphere about who is a feminist and who’s not. Frankly, I have fucking had it with self-styled “feminists” who give the rest of us a bad name.
Like Burrow the Clown, or Lost Clown, or whatever she calls herself. This woman is pretty much Exhibit A for the kind of woolly-brained, lint-gathering, navel-gazing radfem theory that should have choked to death on its own farts years ago. She’s a clown, right? But the name of her blog is Angry for A Reason. So what, she’s an angry clown? Does that even make sense?
Another poseur is Manxome at Climacteric Clambake. Miss Clambake apparently heard that feminism means “the personal is political,” and stopped there. I guess she thinks that writing poignant, finely wrought personal memoirs actually constitutes “doing feminism,” as if that’s really going to help stop sex trafficking in Thailand or give our sisters under purdah a chance at full civil rights. Buy a clue, Clambake.
137 Responses to “Feminist Flame War: No, your credentials are not in the mail”
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Steve says:
As a proud member of the patriarchy who views women as property to be used and thrown away, who looks for every overt and covert opportunity to subvert the emasculating impulses of man-hating feminists, let me say how thrilled I am by this infighting.
Every time you sorry ass pansies fight with each other and even temporarily suspend your program of genocidal castration, it is a valuable opportunity for those of us in the patriarchy to exploit those divisions and turn back the gender clock to the days when men were men and women were June Cleaver.
Keep up the cannibalism. While you fools dick around (probablky the wrong word) we are just nwaiting for the right moment to pounce on your saggy Betty Freidan, Germaine Greer, Andrea Dworkin, Sandra Harding asses.
March 16th, 2006 at 5:11 pm EST -
Violet says:
That’s exactly the kind of misogynist crap I would expect from a lame-ass middle-age professor who’s obviously emasculated by his wife’s feminism and professional accomplishments. Why don’t you go join the circle jerk at Hugo’s blog, where losers like you can still pretend that your quixotic war on “feminazis” is anything other than the whining of impotent losers?
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txfeminist says:
Oh my.
I am sitting here with bated breath, awaiting my credentials in the mail.
Then again, all I write about is divorce and child custody. Real feminists don’t get married, or have kids… so who cares, right?
I think I hear the gong. Crap!
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Burrow says:
Oh dear Dr. Socks-you are going down!
What kind of doctor are you again, could you possibly find something to write about other then pornstitution or godbags? I mean seriously, you cal *that* feminism?
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Burrow says:
I’m also questioning your past ini the circus seriously now, because I found waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more asshole/angry clowns then happy nice ones.
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Steve says:
Point well taken Socks. I am, if nothing else, a lame ass.
Seriously, I hate to watch friends get into loyalty tests of ideological purity. Blood is expensive, and when you go to the mattresses, there’s usually a lot of casualties and, when the smoke clears, the only one left standing is the fucktard.
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Violet says:
Txfeminist:
I realize that you consider yourself a feminist (a Txfeminist, to be precise), and maybe you are. But the comment policy at your blog is hardly designed to create a feminist-friendly space. Yes, yes, I know — you claim that the only way not to force would-be commenters to create Blogger accounts is to enable anonymous commenting, but look at the effect of your policy: anonymous MRA trolls by the hundreds clog up every thread on your blog, citing their bogus statistics and making Alec Baldwin jokes. If you’re so interested in creating a feminist-friendly space, why not turn on moderation? Or are you for some reason unwilling to confront male privilege?
Clown, you’re next.
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txfeminist says:
but… but…. shooting fish in a barrel I tell you! a barrell…. shooting fish…. alec baldwin is an asshole….. uh ……uh
*sigh*
*humbly starts dissassembling RSF, teary-eyed*
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Violet says:
Burrow:
Pornstitution? What, have you been breathing your own farts again? Oh, I get it — that’s some of that clever Kitty Mackinnon stuff, right? Well, listen — I agree that prostitution should be illegal and pornography should be outlawed and that people who do BDSM should rot in jail (preferably a dark dungeon, which they’d probably love.) All real feminists agree. But talking about it doesn’t do squat. Hot air, clown, hot air. We need to get out there and physically attack these people. I’m talking arson, I’m talking computer hacking, I’m talking citizen arrests. Get your head OUT of your ass and take to the barricades, clown!
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Burrow says:
So firebombing the girls gone wild camera crew on spring break isn’t enough for you people? *sheesh* When have you done any of the things you talk about, or are you just blowing hot air out of *your* ass again?
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txfeminist says:
Yeah, well, what about you, Socks? Snowsuits? Mormon underpants? What’s up with all that? you probably wear mormon underpants under your snowsuit! And feminists NEVER wear underpants. So there!
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Violet says:
When have you done any of the things you talk about, or are you just blowing hot air out of your ass again?
I don’t have an ass, Clown. I had mine removed when I realized it had been completely co-opted by the patriarchy. See, I’m a real feminist, and I live my convictions. As opposed to, say, prancing about in a clown outfit for the benefit of the male gaze.
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Burrow says:
Benefit of the male gaze? I’m the only woman in the circus not dressed all provactively. Not only am I wearing the most clothes (b/c I don’t need to sell my body to sell my talent) I make up feminist and radical skits to perform.
What are you sitting on then?
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Burrow says:
Hold it: what about pandering to all the men and trolls that frequently comment on your blog? How is *that* feminist?
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Violet says:
The only man who comments on my blog is Steve, of which all that now remains is a vapor trail (see above).
Jim is really his wife. Will is a woman, Gordo is a trannie, and Jeff is French. Alon is a teenage girl in Lubbock, Texas. The Pastor, of course, isn’t human at all but a virtual audiovisual aid for understanding the patriarchy.
Txfeminist, what do you mean “feminists don’t wear underwear”? Good god, woman, are you a patriarchy pod person? Did your husband teach you to say that?
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Steve says:
VI:
No chance you took my little anti-infighting tirade sriously, is there?
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Violet says:
Why, because feminists are humorless? Is that what you’re saying, Dr. Asswipe?
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Burrow says:
Well that doesn’t explain the trollishness that you allow to run rampant here.
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Steve says:
No, because I am eminently capable of stupid humor.
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Violet says:
Well that doesn’t explain the trollishness that you allow to run rampant here.
What trollishness?
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Burrow says:
Do I need to pull examples out of your comments? Everyone sees it but you apparently, b/c people have run screaming from the free rein you give the trollishness!
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Burrow says:
Punk.
Butt.
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Violet says:
Are you talking about the Pastor? The Pastor is a satirist, and I allow him to stay because he’s a walking/talking show-and-tell for the patriarchy.
As for Alon — have you no compassion? Here she is, a lonely teenage girl with an IQ of 420, struggling against society’s expectation that as an intelligent, educated female, she will of course be a feminist. It’s that whole teenage rebellion thing. It’s completely understandable that she feels compelled to act out transgressive identities, like that of a MRA-wanna-be male troll. Cut the girl some slack.
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Burrow says:
Mmmmm, whatever you say *Doctor*, but from where I come from real feminists don’t coddle.
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will says:
I view it as my job to confront my male privilege at every turn. Many people view my habit of peeing while sitting down as effeminate. It isnt. How could I remain true to feminism if I used the male privilege and stood up when I peed??!?!?!? (To counteract that view that I am effeminate, I regular kickbox.)
I realize that people may also question why I spend so much time around teenage boys and girls.
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Violet says:
Will, honey, you can drop the pretense. I’ve already told everyone you’re a woman.
I’ll admit, for a long time I thought Will was just a sex addict who frequented feminist blogs in order to hit on women. Then he wrote me that he WAS a woman, and I understood.
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Violet says:
<temporary serious content>
As far as I can tell, the argument over at Feministe is mostly about the comments policy at Hugo’s and Amp’s. As far as Hugo’s blog is concerned, I agree that it is no longer (if it ever was) a feminist space. I’ve read Hugo’s comment threads and it’s ridiculous — MRAs just blowing bullshit ad nauseum. And it doesn’t even qualify as Feminism 101 because they never learn anything. They’re not there to learn. They’re just there to spout their same old propaganda over and over again, every day. The things they say about women and about feminism — which is surely one of the most enlightened, categorically good concepts humans have ever come up with — is enough to make one’s skin crawl.Personally I cannot imagine choosing to spend time with men like that, in cyberspace or in real life. They’re so depressing, so full of hate and ignorance. It’s no wonder that most feminists have completely abandoned that blog.
As for Ampersand, at least he’s got feminist-friendly threads. Those are the only ones I read.
</temporary serious content> -
Burrow says:
What do mean temporary serioous moment! Feminist credentials are a serious business! If you can’t see that……..
(i keed, i keed)
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Burrow says:
speaking of which Andrea just commented on my blog about how much more feminist then us she is! The NERVE!
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manxome says:
Wow, Violet, jealous much? How can anyone with such a name as “Violet” even get valid feminist credentials? Everyone knows you’re just trying to pick up men on the internet. You probably even shave your legs and have sex. And like it.
My legs are hairy, and I hate it. If I shaved them I’d hate it. I hate that I hate it.
To paraphrase the wise jabbercock, defining poseurs AS poseurs IS being a poseur. Which means I win, you lameass poseur.
Burrow thinks covering up her entire body to protect men from their urges is feminist. Seriously, she’s not even in the running, here.
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Burrow says:
All right MAN-xome.
WHat the hell are you doing? As violet said all you do is talk about personal things, as if that ever helped. I’m out there firebombing porn stores and I somehow don’t get feminist credentials? (WHo said my entire body was covered? I just said most)
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manxome says:
How boring, always having to deal with these strawclowns who don’t know what manxome is. Perhaps it’s that avoidance thing the covered, burrowing clown has going, afraid to face up to that which is “monstrous & fearsome” (of course if you had cred, you’d know that).
Not that I like the name. I don’t like anything. I am very, very unhappy. Unlike you, who “keeds” about things. There is not room for “keeding” when there’s serious unhappiness to behold. Faker.
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Violet says:
Everyone knows you’re just trying to pick up men on the internet.
Ha! Well, those men I’m allegedly picking up are certainly going to be surprised when they discover that I’ve had my vagina sewn shut. When I said no more tools of the patriarchy for me, I meant just that. And of course I’ve already mentioned that I had my ass surgically removed — but I guess I shouldn’t expect reading comprehension skills from a MANxome.
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Burrow says:
Seriously unhappy?
I don’t even smile anymore. I have permanent scowl lines from all the scowling I do on a daily basis.
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Lauren says:
You guys rock.
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manxome says:
Miss wilting voilet, genital mutilation is SO a tool of the patriarchy. As are needles. And thread. And anesthesia.
It’s not unlike the burrowing clown who covers her churlish scowl lines with makeup.
It takes a very down person to be uppity.
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Violet says:
Thank you very much, Lauren. I’m just sorry to have to point out that your gendered choice of “guys” bespeaks precisely the kind of patriarchal linguistic oppression that us old bats have spent decades fighting.
As for this whole “cred” thing — look, manxclown: Cred isn’t something you earn by making grumpy faces. I sob myself to sleep every night, but that’s not why I have feminist credibility. When you’ve spent hours drafting anti-porn legislation in your own menstrual blood, as I have, then you can start to think about calling yourself a feminist.
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Burrow says:
Fuck that, I use the blood of pornographers I’ve killed to draft anti-porn legislation.
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Burrow says:
Guys????
I AM not a GUY!
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Al E Pistle says:
To 1: You are starting to impress me as a total asshat. Considering the sort of numbnuts I commonly deal with, that is quite a diss.
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gordo says:
(Let’s see, have I posted on this thread? I think I’ll just use the “find” function to look for my name and…)
…wha?
OH MY GOD!!!
(How do I convince them that I’m not a trannie without appearing bigoted and patriarchal?)
(This is a feminist site. If they think I have a problem with trannies, I won’t be able to BUY a date around here.)
(Well, it WAS a feminist site.)
I’m, uh, not sure what you mean about “trannie,” ha-ha. I, er, ASPIRE to be a trannie!
(Crap, now they think I’m gay)
(Does this font make me look gay?)
(Yeah, it does. Now everybody thinks I’m gay.)
(Maybe they’ll try to convert me. I think I’m still in the game here.)
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Al E Pistle says:
To Steve: Violet informs me that you are a comedian in the same way I am a satirist. Thus I apologize for thinking you were an asshat. You are simply a sucky comedian. But don’t worry! I will train you. At Landover Baptist, we train most of the nation’s top bureaucrats to do their job in a completely inoffensive and worthless manner, and for a small tithe we can teach you to be equally…….to be a top-level diplomat.
Please consider your spiritual requirements and how much you can afford to Get Right(TM). If they are not Landover Safe(R), they are WRONG! Remember friend, the answer is 33% for JESUS!
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Jim Deeny says:
Whoops!
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Jim Deeny says:
What the heck is going on in……..(ducks at a flying blog bottle) here?
I think VS just proved her point on this post.
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Al E Pistle says:
Whoops! Socks, It appears that the ‘feminists’ at the blog you mentioned are Diesel Dyke Feminazis. Best you stay away from them.
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Jim Deeny says:
Ya think? They give the REAL feminists the bad rap. I would guess they are filled with hate, and that’s something that someone should not have. Furthermore, a feminist like Violet can debate anything under the sun and not be a wicked and hateful as the one’s mentioned in here. Atleast you can feel Violets love for people, no matter what their stance is in this society, that’s a genuine feminist.
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manxome says:
Well, that got boring pretty fast.
P.S. I win, because I have my own rules, which state that you lose.
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Violet says:
Sorry, sugar, I’ve been shooting smack all night. I can’t blog all the fucking time.
Okay, back to business:
Gordo: coming to a feminist blog to score dates? Ho, ho, ho, guess who’s just outed himself as a troll from Hugo’s blog? That’s right, that whole blogging-to-meet-girls meme is from Hugo’s place (aka MRA Asshat Central). Will hipped us to it the other day when he was filing his report. Also: the italic font totally swishes.
Burrow: you’re currently in first place with the blood of slain pornographers. Sorry, manx.
Jim: This whole thread is a joke, but don’t tell anybody. Also, you’re wrong about me. My innards roil with hatred and loathing for everyone.
Pistle: Do you have to mine for business in EVERY thread? How many tithers do you have now, anyway? And how much is my cut?
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Alon Levy says:
You people are just pseudo-feminists. Everyone knows real feminists blog on Kos, scream at NARAL whenever it dares endorse a Republican, enthusiastically sacrifice legal abortion to make the Democrats more electable, and don’t ever use divisive words like “privilege,” “sexism,” or “patriarchy.” Don’t you know that being so radical will only turn people off and send them to the Republicans?
As a side note, I am in fact a girl, but I don’t live in Lubbock, Texas - I live in Detroit, Michigan. And I’m a lesbian. The real reason I talk about how rape is unimportant is that there’s so much of it here it’s easier to suppress the fact that it exists.
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Jim Deeny says:
See there you go! There are no winners you bone head. Any genuine feminist isn’t as selfish as that! Get a grip.
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will says:
I just wanted to tell everyone goodbye. Now that I realize that VS has been sewn shut and no one wants to have sex with me except gordo and Jim’s “wife,” there isnt much point in hanging out here. And no, not even the Pastor’s urgent requests for me to get down on my knees before him and “pray” are enough to get me to stay!
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Alon Levy says:
Will, being the participant in my gender’s sexual oppression that I am, I have a hideout that houses some people who might have sex with you. These include 3 pedophiles, 2 abusive husbands, 3 BDSM abusers in addition to the aforementioned abusive husbands, a serial rapist, a pimp, and 2 amateur pornographers. The complex has 7 sex slaves for the boys’ sexual fulfillment; if you come you could definitely get one. Just show up at the place and say Alona Levy referred you.
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belledame222 says:
Miz Violet, will you marry me?
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Violet says:
I think you want Alona. She’s the lesbo.
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Jim Deeny says:
That just royally rots, I was ready to watch a good catfight. It was beginnning to remind me of the fathers rights groups. I’m bummed out now.
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Violet says:
Alona, I missed your first comment. Oh sweet jesus, now you’re going to be a Daily Kos “feminist”? What next, piefight ads on your blog? Campaigning for Joe Lieberman?
(By the way, how was your test?)Will, what does it matter if I’m sewn up? Aren’t you a woman?
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txfeminist says:
Okay, okay okay. I have slept on this and given it serious consideration.
So in order to win back my feminist credentials, I’m going to donate all my MRA trolls to the blog everyone’s complaining about that I’ve frankly never bothered to read…. it sounds like they’ll be welcome there.
I have several to donate. Remind me never to speak of Alec Baldwin again. Apparently MRA/FRA’s set up announcements for that assclown.
….. and Violet, don’t you know that underwear is an oppressive tool of the patriarchy??? As are snowsuits. You might as well cover yourself head to foot in a burka.
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txfeminist says:
Anybody up for breakfast at Hooter’s?
Crap, crap crap!!!! I screwed up again!
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will says:
“Will, what does it matter if I’m sewn up? Aren’t you a woman?”
A woman cannot enjoy some penetration? Or is penetration a tool of the patriarchy?
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Violet says:
No, it’s penetration by a tool of the patriarchy.
Real feminists avoid penetrative sex because it just perpetuates the dominance-submission model. Sewing up the hoo hah is optional, but can help to strengthen one’s resolve. I had my resolve strengthened just recently with size 2/0 surgical catgut.
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Violet says:
Tx, I’ve checked your blog this morning, and I’m still seeing trolls. I suggest a flaming logo with vaginal dentata.
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will says:
I would have gone with virgin silk if I were you.
Fortunately, I carry a scalpel with me for quick removal of sealed female parts. Often, blogging feminists have repressed their desire to be dominated for some long that they are BEGGING for the suture removal so that they can have patriarchial penetration.
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txfeminist says:
OMG Violet, I LOVE it — what a brilliant idea. I love it! Do you think it would work??
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Andrea says:
Hah! I’m so UNpenetrated, mine is inversed. Sewn up is for fake feminists, real feminists go for full prolapse.
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Alon Levy says:
Alona, I missed your first comment. Oh sweet jesus, now you’re going to be a Daily Kos “feminist”? What next, piefight ads on your blog? Campaigning for Joe Lieberman?
(By the way, how was your test?)Everyone knows that the Democratic Party is defined by Kerry, Dean, and Edwards, and that anyone who criticizes any of them, even when they criticize one another, is simply a Republican in disguise. Now the only Democrat you’re ever allowed to attack is Zell Miller, and that’s only because he officially defected.
My test was good, by the way (I don’t remember telling you about it… I must be slipping). I did fairly well - I know I passed, so I’m happy.
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StripTease says:
Strippers Win Right to Meal Breaks, OT
By Associated PressStrippers have won the right to take time off after taking their clothes off.
The country’s Industrial Relations Commission on Friday approved new workplace rules for members of the strippers’ union, the Striptease Artists Australia.
“We’ve got rights to have public holiday pay now, which we’ve never had in our career before,” said a union spokeswoman called Mystical Melody. “We’ve got rosters and set hours. We can’t work more than 10 hours a shift.”
The award also entitles unionized strippers to overtime, rest periods, meal breaks and maternity leave, she added.
“The majority of workers in the industry are women,” Melody said, “so it’s probably a really great thing for them to be able to feel confident of having a job after they’ve had their babies.”
Industrial relations commissioner Bill Mansfield said the award set out minimum working conditions but did not set out pay rates.
It was not immediately clear how many members the union has. Its members are believed to work mainly in strip bars and as erotic dancers.
In the past, other strippers have criticized the union, saying its demands for better pay and conditions could lead to job losses.
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Steve says:
Serious question: What would be the male equivalent of vaginal-sewing if I wanted to permanently settle and establish my feminist credentials?
Please dont make me do without my wee-wee. Or could I at least keep one testicle? My left one and I have grown especially close over the years.
Maybe there is another body part I could do without or another orifice I could seal to prove my disgust with godbags, fucktards, and other dickweeds.
I await instructions from the matriarchy.
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Charlie says:
Oh man, am I too late to get in on this thread?
Do me! Do me!
No I meant it. Do me.
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will says:
“Hah! I’m so UNpenetrated, mine is inversed. Sewn up is for fake feminists, real feminists go for full prolapse.”
Wait. That makes me a feminist too!
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Violet says:
Andrea says: Sewn up is for fake feminists, real feminists go for full prolapse.
Depends. Was it an elective prolapse?
Steve says: Serious question: What would be the male equivalent of vaginal-sewing if I wanted to permanently settle and establish my feminist credentials?
Lo, the vapor trail speaks!
Will says: Wait. That makes me a feminist too!
You have vaginal prolapse AND a patriarchal tool? Okay, Steve? This is the guy you wanna talk to. Some kinda hermaphrodite thing going here — an ambivalent level of commitment, if you ask me — but it seems to work for Will. Does apparently require sitting down to pee.
Charlie says: Oh man, am I too late to get in on this thread?
Charlie, you are never too late to be eviscerated by a radical feminist, particularly one with my credentials. Unfortunately, I’ve been shooting smack and doing lines of coke for about 16 hours now and am starting to crash. Help me out. Say something offensive.
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will says:
Why do you mock my MVP?
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Violet says:
Also: Tx, I’ll work on the logo over the weekend. Unless I’m unconscious.
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Jim Deeny says:
Hey Violet, can you please return my ceramic frog?
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Andrea says:
Yep, sucked it out with the vaccuum cleaner myself.
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Jim Deeny says:
Andrea, can I call you “Hoover Manuever”?
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Infidel says:
Kiss me, I’m Irish.
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Charlie says:
Hey, what is this shit? I start out with by addressing the audience as “man,” and I continue by insisting that you have sex with me. What else can a patriarchy lover do? *sigh* You’re such a pain in the ass. Okay, let me give this a better shot.
You know what, Violet? If you and your feminazi friends would shave your legs every once in awhile, we patriarchs would consider you a lot more fuckable. In anticipation of your sob story, I’m going to just throw out there that we all know you’re already on the rag. So shut the fuck up and make me some dinner.
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a nut says:
Oh here we go with the pms and on the rag shit. Could you be anymore original? It didn’t take long to deduce a woman’s venting of frustrations to her monthly discharge of unfertilized eggs now did it?
OMG! We kill babies every fucking month!
And as for the hairy legs: you shave yours and I’ll shave mine!
So you shut the fuck up and get out of my cunt!
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Infidel says:
reeeeeeeeeee reeeeeeeeeee
reeeeeeeeeee reeeeeeeeeee
dee deedle lee deedle lee dee dee dee
dee deedle lee deedle lee dee dee dee
dee deedle lee deedle lee dee dee deedeedle lee deedle lee dee deedle lee dee
reeeeeeeeee reeeeeeeee reeeeeeee reeeeeeee
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Al E Pistle says:
to 67: http://www.landoverbaptist.org.....mcise.html
No need to bookmark this page. Just type the word, “circumcise,” in Google! It will be the first thing you see. Glory!
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Alon Levy says:
What would be the male equivalent of vaginal-sewing if I wanted to permanently settle and establish my feminist credentials?
To establish your feminist credentials, you simply need to do everything Kos tells you to do. If he tells you to vote for someone, do it; if he tells you to donate to a candidate, do it; if he tells you to write letters to your Congressman, do it. That’s all a real feminist needs to do.
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The Countess says:
Ha! I will now honor the god that is Kos and look for my feminist credentials there. I guess I’ll have to view abortion as a “fringe issue” not worthy of Democratic attention. All Hail The Kos Feminists!!!
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The Countess says:
I can’t read Burrow the Clown because I am afraid of clowns. It got really bad after I saw Tim Curry as an evil clown in that mini-series “It”. Clowns are tools of the patriarchy. How can a feminist take on the appearance of a clown, especially one with big, sharp, pointy teeth?
Clowns? There are no clowns in feminism!
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Violet says:
Good morning, everybody, and who the fuck ARE you people? This is a thread for real feminists, not a bunch of wannabe poseurs and anti-feminist misogynist creeps.
Nut, you’re obviously a 13-year-old boy pretending to be a feminist. Nice try, but real feminists never use the c-word.
So, Charlie, getting tired of the 11-year-old Filipino prostitutes? Local escort service no longer meeting your needs? Think plugging a feminist might wake up your johnson? Tell you what, asschump: you can take your pseudo-Alan Alda “ooh I want to be feminist and I love gay people” blog and use it to buy your next hand-job at the massage parlor.
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Alon Levy says:
This is a thread for real feminists, not a bunch of wannabe poseurs and anti-feminist misogynist creeps.
Until you stop supporting fringe issues like abortion and equal pay, you’ll always be the greatest wannabe poseur here.
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The Countess says:
Socks, how do you know that Nut is not a feminist pretending to be a 13 year old boy? Or is it because nut offered to shave his/her legs if the feminists would?
I would never shave my legs. I can’t shave away all those braids.
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Jeff says:
Hey, I only lived in France for 2 years, and that was BEFORE the Beatles invaded the US! It’s not still that obvious, is it?
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Jeff says:
Well, come to think of it, those were pretty formative years. I was in the 2nd and 3rd grade, old habits die hard.
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Burrow says:
Hey Countess: BOO!
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a nut says:
You know, I don’t think it’s possible for me to even pretend to be a 13 yr old boy. Give me about 7 more years and I’ll have one in residence to leach off of…
As for shaving, it really sucks when ones legs are full of goose bumps.
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The Countess says:
Hey, Burrow, BOO-YAH!!!
:::snicker::::
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The Countess says:
The Count tells me that The Beatles were lightweights. He liked The Stones. We have Stones vs. Beatles arguments all the time.
That said, David Bowie was better than both of them.
(Has Keith Richards died yet, or is he still a walking corpse?)
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The Countess says:
Burrow –
CLOWNS!!! CLOWNS!!! Aaaaieeeeeeeee!!!
I never had a clown toy when I was a kid. I wouldn’t let a clown near me. John Wayne Gacy, Jr., was a clown. ‘Nuff said.
John Wayne Gacy, Jr., was no feminist.
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Vinnie Vespisti says:
I am insulted. The Canadian clown dyke…er…lady..locked me out of her blog.
It occurs to me that feminism is practised quite freely in the US. You can make the beast with two backs with your boyfriend or not, or with your girlfriend….or not. You can decide. And you can take the pill (or equivalent) or not. THAT was the huge hangup with feminists until it was invented. Then pay and abortion became the next big things. But now, if you want a partner of whatever flavor, you can choose from among a plethora….or all of them at once if you choose. A plate of mixed nuts and sushi.
I agree that equal pay doesn’t exist in some institutitions unless one has the physical virtues that demand it and are willing to sell them. Models and movie stars make it big. But if you think about it men who make huge sums of money in business aren’t usually earning it, they are stealing it or embezzling it. Or they are dorks like Bill Gates whose mom made the IBM connection possible for him. And there aren’t that many of them. Civil servants get the same pay. So do college professors and truck drivers. And women who fly jet fighters or are astronauts get the same pay as the men.
I believe in equality. If you don’t have it physically, it’s not because of some male plot. It is because you have evolved to have babies and nurture them. If you don’t wanna, then don’t. If you want to make your biological baby clock stop ticking, work out and take steroids. Go here to find out how: http://www.female-bodybuilders.org/
If you don’t have it mentally, that’s hard to blame on men either. I can’t imagine why there shouldn’t be a Bell-curve distribution for intelligence. So you are just as smart as men, or smarter, and can multitask. That means you can probably get into a good college on an academic scholarship, but there are a lot of women in college on athletic scholarships as well. If you can’t afford it the military will pay for your college.
There have been quite a few female leaders in history. Women who went out and led men into battle. Women who fought alongside men in battle. Female queens, pirates, Goddesses, rulers. Legends and histories in all cultures even before the Greeks. So it’s not something you just thought up in the ’60s. Legendary women, feminists, even feminine feminists abound.
How many women ruled countries as regents? In China…Japan…Egypt (Cleopatra was the ruler in her own right)…England…the list is as long as the numbers of dynasties. Longer.
So what is the gripe? That you can’t succeed because men won’t let you? Hitlery Clinton may be the next president. Or YOU could be. But you have to do it, not whine that you can’t because of 1600 years of male dominance. Yesterday is dead. Tomorrow is the beginning of history. You have the absolute freedom to choose your destiny, unlike Muslim women. Carpe Diem. But shave your pits.
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Pastor Pistle says:
to 94: Only a flaming homersexural could write something like that! Women are COMMANDED BY GOD to be subservient and you are suggesting they go to school and get uppity! Women are NOT equal! Women cook, clean and have babies. If you wear one out you can have another.
I agree that they need to go to school long enough to be able to count change from the grocery store and write out the bills. But NOT long enough to be able to serve on a jury (who would change the baby’s diaper?) or make their own decision about who to vote for. That is up to their husband.
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Burrow says:
I am insulted. The Canadian clown dyke…er…lady..locked me out of her blog.
Well if you made trollish comments like this I can’t for the life of me see why you would get locked out?
That and you’re an asshat.
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Violet says:
Vinnie Barbarino, if that was a play for feminist cred, you failed miserably.
Hi, Canadian clown dyke!
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Vinnie Vespisti says:
to 96: Oh, so yer a toughie, eh Hoser? Vinnie doesn’t like Butch Babes. so stop trying to suck up.
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Vinnie Vespisti says:
to 97: Listen cupcake, Vinnie doesn’t understand the brouhaha. Women get fixed up, wear sexy stuff and try to catch a man. That’s feminism. I’m all for it.
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Burrow says:
See, look I *repel* men, therefore I am the most feminist of all!
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Alon Levy says:
Because of people like you, the Republicans win. Therefore you’re as anti-feminist as one can get.
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Andrea says:
Jim Deeny> No.
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Pastor Pistle says:
to 100: Madame, you are exactly as repellent to women as men, and probably dogs as well. While Mr Vespisti is probably a sexist and possibly an asshat, you are most certainly one and a carpet cleaner as well.
In addition, you have, by your abrasive, insulting and generally insincere nature insulted my good friend Dr. Socks who, I hope, will never shy from her chosen task.
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Burrow says:
Dr. Socks is the one who started the flame war and so I am flaming away. Not that I’d listen to you godbag.
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Ann Bartow says:
I tried unsuccessfully to get a feminist dialogue going about the misogyny of male “liberal” bloggers, one in particular: here.
But not much interest. Other feminists either love him, or are afraid of him, or link to him because then he links to them and this helps with the blog ad revenues, or something.And then of course there was this.
On the bright side, a summer research project is evolving out of all this. How I love academia!
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Alon Levy says:
Yeah, partisans of all kinds have a very annoying tendency to use all weapons in their arsenal to attack their opponents - for example, Colin Powell was referred to as a house slave. A point worth investigating is why in general black groups are the most upfront about calling black Republicans derogatory names and gay rights groups spearhead outing gay politicians they don’t like, but the liberal activists who call conservative women cunts and bitches are usually anti-feminist or at least non-feminist.
Anyway, I hear you about the frustration with misogyny. Ann Coulter is the offline equivalent of a troll; I don’t give a damn about her Adam’s apple, or her hair color. I hate this sort of vanity. What I do care about is her kill-all-liberals remarks, to the degree that she wields actual influence on political events (which is very low).
On the other hand, you could look at it from another perspective: does TBogg have the ability to oppress Malkin? Mark Rosenfelder said similar things about the comment that Powell was Bush’s house slave.
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Ann Bartow says:
I’m not sure I entirely understand what you are saying here - apologies if I am getting it wrong in places, but:
1. I’m not sure I agree with your generalizations about “black groups” or “gay rights groups.” There are numerous individual and group “gay” and “black” identified blogs that focus on politics, and some of them engage in crass (and worse) name-calling, but not all of them do by a long shot. For the ones that do, my reaction is the same as it is with certain bellicose snark-infested “feminists”: I wish they would stick to calling the bad actors out on their specific acts of idiocy, and not sink to the sort of misogynist name calling and insults that confirms the right’s worst views of liberal hypocrisy.
2. As for TBogg, I think he oppresses women generally when rather than dealing substantively with right wing asshole women, he calls them bitches and sluts and criticizes their physical appearances and parenting. He also seems to objectify his own wife and daughter at his site. He normalizes and fetishizes the othering and genderized abuse of women generally, and if he’s a liberal, frankly, I don’t want to be defined as one. The people who endorse his blog by commenting there and linking to it have a view of female equality that is very different than mine. If you make a sustained effort to read through TBogg’s comments threads you will see what I mean. He’s not the only “liberal” male blogger like this, either, but criticizing anyone seems to mean I am humorless and some sort of feminist police, accusations that conveniently deflected attention from the points I tried to make. But I give up. I’m back to focusing on sunstantive feminist theory, rather than devoting (wasting) much more time on devotees of “feminism as-a-platform-from-which-to-make-fun-of-people (espacially their clothes-and-bodies-and-relationship-issues)
because-it-makes-me-feel-powerful-and-superior.” -
Alon Levy says:
I’m not sure I agree with your generalizations about “black groups” or “gay rights groups.” There are numerous individual and group “gay” and “black” identified blogs that focus on politics, and some of them engage in crass (and worse) name-calling, but not all of them do by a long shot.
Of course not all of them do that. But it’s a fairly well-known practice of some gay rights groups to out gay politicians who they think are homophobic; and the person who called Powell a house slave was black (and I think that so is Steve Gilliard, who photoshopped a photo of Ken Blackwell as a white person with a black mask). My point is, liberal men are far likelier to engage in sexist slurs against conservatives than are liberal women, whereas black liberals seem to be likelier than white liberals to use racist slurs.
I wish they would stick to calling the bad actors out on their specific acts of idiocy, and not sink to the sort of misogynist name calling and insults that confirms the right’s worst views of liberal hypocrisy.
Yeah, me too. But if I got all the things I wished for, no liberal - and here I’m including practically all feminists, even most radfems - would have anything to fight for.
As for TBogg, I think he oppresses women generally when rather than dealing substantively with right wing asshole women, he calls them bitches and sluts and criticizes their physical appearances and parenting. He also seems to objectify his own wife and daughter at his site. He normalizes and fetishizes the othering and genderized abuse of women generally, and if he’s a liberal, frankly, I don’t want to be defined as one.
I’m not going to defend him. I haven’t read his site - I tried loading it to see what you were attacking, but for some reason it wouldn’t load. From what it seems, if I do manage to load his blog, I’ll get disgusted and go back to saner places. And I’ve just checked, and UTI doesn’t like to him (not that I have any control over UTI’s blogroll, so credit Brent and DarkSyde, not me).
About being defined as a liberal, I share your frustration. I have to deal with a thousand stupidities brought by liberals, with liberal politicians’ proclivity for ineffectiveness, and with the fact that both moderate and radical liberals have piles of skeletons in their closets. What keeps me from defining myself as something else is the realization that all other ideologies have more skeletons in their closets than does liberalism by an order of magnitude.
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Ann Bartow says:
Just for the record, this:
I’m back to focusing on substantive feminist theory, rather than devoting (wasting) much more time on devotees of “feminism as-a-platform-from-which-to-make-fun-of-people (especially their clothes-and-bodies-and-relationship-issues)
because-it-makes-me-feel-powerful-and-superior.” (now with two fewer typos!) was not aimed at this thread; I understand that this is satirical. -
Alon Levy says:
Alright…
Anyway, about humorlessness, personally I don’t give a damn about a blogger’s sense of humor. I know that if I were female, and a high-profile feminist blogger, then all the sexists would jump on me as an example of how all feminists are humorless prudes. Well, as this thread reveals, I am in fact female, but most people don’t know that…
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Violet says:
Ann, I don’t read TBogg, but based on the excerpts you posted, he’s pretty obviously an unreconstructed sexist. Does he ever address feminism in his blog? Does he ever talk about reproductive rights or anything like that? I’m just wondering if he’s the kind of liberal guy who imagines himself to be solidly feminist because he approves of Roe v. Wade.
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Ann Bartow says:
He seems to be pro-choice, more or less. He’s wildly popular, if you look at things like link rankings and pageloads, and he gets nominated for “Koufax” awards etc. He’s everyone’s favorite lefty blogger except mine, because I’m a humorless feminist, or so I have been made to feel, out to ruin everyone’s fun.
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will says:
We have to do more than support Roe to be considered feminist? Damn it! Why are you always raising the bar?!?!!??
I am amazed at how frequently people fight over whether someone is a feminist or a troll. Simply amazed.
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Violet says:
Will, did you email Steve the details on how to achieve your hermaphroditic feminist credentials?
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Ann Bartow says:
“I am amazed at how frequently people fight over whether someone is a feminist or a troll. Simply amazed.”
Will, I do not think that is a fair way to characterize this. Ann Althouse made the claim that TBogg was a sexist, but that women on the left did not and would not call him on it. I don’t agree with Ann Althouse on much, she can be pretty awful toward women too, but I think she was right about that. Some women who identify as feminist do not only not call TBogg on his sexism, they join right in, or so it appears to me, but obviously I’m humor-impaired and so confuse sexism with “snark.” Or something.
I jumped in here because the thread seemed to be winding down, so it didn’t seem like I’d be hijacking it, apologies if that is how it feels. Anyway, thanks for letting me have my say.
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will says:
Ann:
My comment really wasnt about Tbogg or Althouse. I am fairly new to blogs, but I see the discussions with frequency. Typically, man says something and then the discussion turns into a debate about whether he is a misogynist, a troll, or a feminist.
I agree with your comment that discussions should turn on the merits of comments, not of personal attacks. You focused on appearance attacks. But instead of focus on the substance of a comment, I see the feminist blogs turn quickly to the personal attack of “Misogynist!!!”
Isnt it the same thing?
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Violet says:
Ann, you’re not hijacking at all. It’s refreshing to engage in some serious discussion.
There are two wars being referenced in the original joke of this thread: 1. the argument over Hugo’s and Barry’s comments policies, and 2. the intra-feminist debate between pro-porn, pro-BDSM women and those who see that stuff as tools of the patriarchy.
As for TBogg (who I admit isn’t even on my radar screen), maybe he’s a “feminist” the way Markos is a “feminist” (snort).
Oops, Will’s comment just slipped in, so I’ll post this and then read what he wrote.
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will says:
I’ll happily return to the porn discussion. Perhaps Ann wants to get in on my monthly discharge of porn.
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Ann Bartow says:
I think it is hard to gauge whether someone is a misogynist based on a few comments, and to use this label too quickly is unfair. TBogg, however, has a huge body of work, several years worth of steady blog postings (he won a Koufax for best leftist blog in 2003) and I do think one can make an informed judgement based on this, and I did not do so lightly.
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will says:
Fair enough. I havent read Tbogg much. VSocks doesnt let me out much.
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Vinnie Vespisti says:
Holy cow! No wonder you women aren’t running things. Do you propose to achieve equality through endless rhetoric about who ate who and whether TBOGG is more important than Michelle Malkin and why Ann Coulter’s adam’s apple and beard prove she’s not a feminist?
Vinnie has tuned the rug munchers out. Homerism is not feminism. You are all babbling, and it started with post 104 when Ms.Felcher popped out.
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Violet says:
Ann, I see now what Will is talking about, and it’s nothing to do with TBogg. It’s what happens to commenters like Will when they wander into a feminist discussion and start voicing ideas that usually herald an onslaught of MRA rhetoric, though they don’t realize this.
I’m not new to blogs, and the thing is, explicitly feminist blogs attract anti-feminist trolls like flies. If the blogger isn’t careful, her place will degenerate into a forum for that kind of crap and feminist voices will be drowned out. That is what has happened at Hugo’s and it’s what often happens in the open threads at Barry’s (the ones he hasn’t marked “feminist-only”). If the blogger has a large, active community, like at Pandagon, then the regulars will usually shout down the trolls, but smaller blogs can easily be overwhelmed.
The typical troll’s approach is to begin reasonably (don’t you think x happens to men too?), and gradually move to their real argument, which is that feminism is a man-hating tyrannical conspiracy to Rule The World. Having lodged themselves in place, they derail every feminist discussion into a rehash of basic principles, so that every thread becomes Feminism 101, the first day of class.
Unfortunately, guys like Will (who is not a troll) and other neophytes often come into a discussion with comments that sound like the standard troll’s opening move (x happens to men too, wouldn’t it be fair to do x, etc.). Some feminists automatically assume that A New Troll Has Appeared and pull out the uzis. Sometimes I do too — especially if the opening statements are particularly blatant — but often I’m willing to assume that the person is arguing in good faith and isn’t a troll-in-waiting.
There are other issues involved, such as the tendency to cut men more slack because they’re men, and so on, but this comment is now about three times longer than my original post, so I’ll stop.
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will says:
(I am fortunate to have VS translate for me. Virgin(ians) need to stick up for each other!)
If I cant be a feminist, and I cant be a troll, what am I?!??!?
I guess I am just disappointed that people just do not ignore those comments.
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Ann Bartow says:
Thanks for your input, Violet! Your blog is great.
warmest wishes,
Ann -
gordo says:
Violent–
But don’t the blogs of antifemist men also get trolled?
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Violet says:
But don’t the blogs of antifemist men also get trolled?
By feminists, you mean? I would imagine it happens occasionally, but if it’s a regular occurrence then the comments must be deleted. Whenever I’ve waded into the comments thread on an anti-feminist blog, I’m struck by the absence of dissenting voices. Anti-feminism is very popular, apparently.
Of course I’m no expert on anti-feminist blogs, so maybe I’m wrong.
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gordo says:
Ann–
I think tbogg’s biggest problem is that he has a “humor” blog, so he thinks that EVERYTHING he posts must be humorous. Like any comic, he goes through periods in which he can’t think of anything truly funny, so he unpacks the snark about Coulter’s adam’s apple, or some such.
You see the same thing in the Sunday comics. When you see Hagar the Horrible on the golf course, you know that the cartoonist is fresh out of ideas. Ditto for jokes about Homer being fat on the Simpsons.
Of course, he could simply NOT POST ANYTHING instead of wandering into territory best left unexplored.
I can’t imagine what it must be like to be tbogg, endlessly searching through the far-right fringe and digging up examples of stupidity. It seems like a monumental waste of time.
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Steve says:
I just want everyone to know that I decided that some form of castration or mutilation was a foolish way to establish my feminist credentials. Besides, why should I do literally what the matrirachy has already done to me figuratively?
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Violet says:
Steve, you’re just jealous because Will is equipped for pan-sexualism and you’re not.
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will says:
Violet:
Why are you trying to make people jealous of me?
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gordo says:
Violent–
Aha! Just as I suspected! Your comment proves that feminism is a man-hating tyrannical conspiracy to Rule The World!
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txfeminist says:
I haven’t read TBogg, but I do read celebrity trash magazines like “Us”. They are totally sexist and cruel, but at the same time, I laugh at them.
I am sure that finding sexist jokes amongst a blog of “serious” leftie issues would feel inappropriate to me. I would probably be offended.
Perhaps it’s, for me, a matter of context. I can take lightly the idiocy of celebrity trash magazines because they are just that. I would hesitate to take it “lightly” in the progressive blogosphere, because I usually take progressive blogs seriously and hope they are respected as such.
But, perhaps others don’t feel the need to “partition” this way, as long as they feel like the important messages are getting across.
I guess I would be anxious about cross-contamination.
Besides, when you start posting about celebrities, fools will flock. As I have found out. Er, sigh.
Anyway, it’s an interesting problem.
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txfeminist says:
additionally…. people who resort to ad hominem in discussions about this or that subject i quickly find unworthy of discussion, and take far less seriously than those who don’t. The snarky personal attacks on this or that blog, are better off ignored, unless someone is exhibiting serious hostility or hate-speech — that must be addressed in a way which seeks to restrict it or stop it.
In general I try to follow my own advice as best I can…. I don’t always live up to it though!
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Sam says:
Until the cruel feminist evildoers here stop denying Aussie strippers meal breaks and maternity leave we can’t make any real progress on our tyrannical conspiracy to rule the world. There will be time for all us feminist strip club managers to continue abusing and slavedriving Aussie strippers for more than 10 hours a day when our mission of world domination is complete.
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Patrick says:
I feel obliged to personally question feminism the way I would question any other supremacist
movement. Say the same thing about Blacks and Arabs that many famous feminists would say about men, and they would call you a racist. Saying that all men, as a group, are responsible for getting rid of the evils of some men, and you might as well be saying to Arabs as a group, hey, “you people” are responsible for most terrorism, so clean it up! How condescending. The myth of male privilege is a persuasive one. I don’t make much money, and most of my friends don’t, so what economic privilege do you want me to give up? I will not apologize for men being most of the CEO’s. I don’t benefit from them, and they wouldn’t help me out anyway!Most of the homeless people are men too! Men on average die seven years earlier than women. They are the one that die in wars, outnumbering the men (and women) politicians that send them to war in the first place. Without the inventions of white men that existed, like governments, houses, cars, etc., All of us would be living in a cave with a life expectancy of 40, like some people might do in the third world. Think about that, as
you all, like me, spend time in your cushy upper-middle class houses with air-conditioning, and
cars, and cushy jobs, or whatever you think you earned! If you understand that we stole land from the Native American tribes, feel free to give it back, and move to another country, and live off the land. Stop being a total hypocrite, liberals.
Try telling the low-income soldier man that was drafted to Vietnam to get shot, that he was
unfairly privileged because of his gender. Try telling the Native American man that was thrown off his land that he was unfairly privileged, also. Try telling the black men that he had unfair privilege when he was a slave. End the “testoserone” stereotypes. Don’t worry: if the male population falls from 49 or 48 percent to 35 percent and contains more homeless and suicide-ridden men, you can still blame the “evil patriachy”, which had actually favored women over men. I have met good patriarchal men who have supported their wives and children, as firemen, at risk to themselves, compared to the stereotypes on some websites. Anyway, favoring freeloaders, and biting the hand that feeds us, seems to be a “bleeding heart” tradition. If women won’t apologize about their gender abusing children and elderly at a higher rate than men, and i’m not saying they should, I will not apologize on behalf of the sins of my goddamn gender and race, which I’m damn proud of. You “politically correct” nuts who want to instill guilt in me should look elsewhere. If you believe this feminist movement is about “equality”, then I got some oceanfront property in Wyoming I wish to sell you. You can ignore this post and say it’s a “troll”, or you might try to refute historical facts I mentioned on this post or the other websites I’ve been on. Lets see what guts you have. You just might learn s0mething. -
Violet says:
Patrick, considering that this entire thread was a joke, I think you’ve definitely flunked the stick test. (Like at carnival rides: you have to be smarter than this stick to enter.)
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Bitch | Lab » The slut as scab says:
[...] A similar trope weaves itself into our discussion in Blogoliciousville, as Reclusive Leftist suggested [ironically], when feminists think other women are bringing down feminism with their behavior, theories, and/or political practices. This is also a subterranean concern which tunnels beneath the surface of Ariel Levy’s text as well. Levy manages to get away with the insult because she purchases it with her contempt for academic feminism (in the end, that doesn’t do feminism much good, either). [...]
