Dueling Godbags: Cartoon Mohammed vs. Cartoon Jesus

Tuesday, February 7th, 2006 · 359 Comments »

Warning: if you’re offended by visual images of the Prophet, don’t click to read more. Just back away slowly from the blog, and nobody gets hurt.

People have died now because of this mess. Have any of the rioters actually seen the cartoons? I understand that Muslims are offended by any depiction of the Prophet, but the fuel on this particular fire is the perception that these images are especially demeaning. Even in the West, it’s common to condemn the cartoons as “racist” or to say that Jesus is never caricatured in such an offensive way. That’s bull.

I don’t think these cartoons are racist. I also don’t think they’re worse than any number of cartoons lampooning Jesus and Christians. To prove my point – or really just to get this off my chest, since that’s why God made blogs – I’ve decided to analyze the Danish cartoons along with comparable caricatures of Jesus and Christians.

Each of the Mohammed cartoons below is from the group of 12 published in the Danish press. I’ve matched most of them with somewhat similar Jesus cartoons I found on the internets.

Mohammed:

Danish cartoon 1

Jesus:

Jesus and Blind Bartimaeus by Henry Martin http://www.sermons4kids.com/hmartin.htm

How is the Mohammed cartoon demeaning? Islamic tradition holds that he was a trader in the Arab peninsula. So here he is in the desert, with his pack-laden animal, a glowing sun on the horizon. What is the problem?

Apparently some people think it’s racist to depict Mohammed with black hair and dark eyes and a somewhat aquiline nose. Why? For Chrissake, that’s what people look like in that part of the world. That’s been the Middle Eastern physical type for at least 3500 years (according to ancient Egyptian carvings). There’s not a damn thing wrong with looking that way or with drawing people who do look that way.

If it’s racist to depict an Arab man looking like an Arab, how should Mohammed be portrayed? As a northern European? As a Han Chinese? As a West African? Would that be less racist? It seems to me that the racism is in the eyes of those who think Middle Easterners are unattractive and that some other physical type – say, northern European – is more generically human.

By the way, check the nose on Jesus. Is that offensive? The vicar who drew the cartoon didn’t think so.

*****

Mohammed:

Danish cartoon 2

Jesus:

http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/

The bomb-turban cartoon is apparently the most controversial of the images. But is this really so different from Republican Jesus?

When we look at Republican Jesus, we don’t think the cartoonist is denigrating Jesus of Nazareth. We recognize that he’s lampooning the modern American corruption of Jesus into a war mascot. Why don’t the same rules apply when we look at the cartoon of Mohammed? A bomb in the turban with a lit fuse – why don’t we read that as being a slap against terrorists who kill in the name of the Prophet, the same way we read Republican Jesus as a slap against hypocritical Christians?

As for the Mohammed cartoon being “racist,” it looks to me like it’s based on the most commonly reproduced portrait of Mohammed in the West:

Persian portrait of Mohammed

That’s from a European book published in 1683 (and of course the clothing is anachronistic). Is that a racist image? It’s just a Persian-looking version of Mohammed.

*****

Mohammed:

Danish cartoon 3

Jesus:

from the Village Voice, artist unknown

by Andy Robbins, http://www.merch-bot.com

You know, Mohammed really was a warrior. That’s part of the pious tradition about him. So just showing him with a dagger is not defamatory in itself, nor is depicting him with veiled women (also part of pious tradition). Of course there is an overall insinuation of ugly violence in the cartoon, but is it any more egregious than in the two Jesus images? In all three cases, is the artist really talking about the historical figure, or is he talking about the modern-day followers who abuse the memory of that figure to their own violent ends?

*****

Mohammed:

Danish cartoon 4

Jesus:

http://www.geocities.com/flaminflamer/art/

I could have chosen a “Jesus on the clouds in heaven” cartoon here (they’re common enough), but I didn’t come across any that were particularly biting. Mind you, I think the Mohammed-in-heaven cartoon is actually funny — it’s the only one of the Danish group that is — but I can see how Muslims could be offended by mockery of what they consider holy martyrdom. So I decided to post a cartoon that mocks what Christians consider the holiest martyrdom of all.

*****

Mohammed:

Danish cartoon 5

Jesus:

by David Horsey

Mohammed with followers who are ready to kill; Jesus with followers who are ready to kill.

*****

Dumb Muslim:

Danish cartoon 6

Dumb Christian:

http://www.jawtoons.com/

Note that the Danish cartoonist chose not to illustrate the Prophet Mohammed, but a kid named Mohammed in a Danish school. Obviously it’s a jibe at the narrow-mindedness and ignorance of some Muslims. Well, we have plenty of cartoons ridiculing Christians; this is just one of approximately 473 zillion.

*****

Mohammed (not pictured) and women:

Danish cartoon 7

Jesus and women (not pictured!):

http://www.tshirthell.com

According to Wikipedia, the poem in the Danish cartoon translates to something like, “Prophet! You crazy bloke! Keeping women under yoke!” The abstract images look a little like line drawings of women — if you stand about 5 feet away from your computer screen. Note that there’s no image of Mohammed in there at all.

*****

For the rest of the Danish cartoons, I’m not going to bother to look for comparable Jesus images. The cartoons are too innocuous or too specific.

Two of the Danish images are just riffs on the crescent iconography:

Danish cartoon 8

Danish cartoon 9

I think that second one is lovely. Very cool the way the crescent forms a halo. Some people see horns, but what that actually reminds me of is the way centuries of Christian art portrayed Moses with horns. It stemmed from a mistranslation of the word describing the veil that covered Moses’ face after it got all shiny from talking to God. Mohammed apparently had a similar issue with facial brilliance, and is also said to have gone veiled. Is the cartoonist here making a reference to the Mosaic veil/horns? Am I carrying around way too much trivial information in my head?

The last three Danish cartoons are explicitly about the controversy, not about Mohammed per se:

Danish cartoon 10

According to Wikipedia, the seven people in the lineup are: (1) A generic Hippie, (2) politician Pia Kjærsgaard, (3) possibly Jesus, (4) possibly Buddha, (5) possibly Mohammed, (6) a generic Indian Guru, and (7) journalist Kåre Bluitgen, carrying a sign saying: “Kåre’s PR, ring og få et tilbud” (“Kåre’s public relations, call and get an offer”). The witness is saying, “Hmm… I can’t really recognize him.”

Kåre Bluitgen is the writer who started this whole thing by trying to get an illustrator for his children’s book about Islam. None of the illustrators he contacted would agree to draw Mohammed. This was interpreted by Danes as self-censorship, and led to a public debate about free speech vis-a-vis Islam. This series of cartoons was reportedly commissioned as a test case.

Danish cartoon 11

Here’s Kåre Bluitgen again, this time holding a stick-figure of Mohammed. According to Wikipedia, the Danish proverb “an orange in the turban” means “a stroke of luck” — in this case, the added publicity for Bluitgen’s book.

Danish cartoon 12

Here a cartoonist depicts himself in the act of (nervously) drawing Mohammed.

*****

After spending a couple of hours cutting and pasting, I’ve learned two things:

1. Denmark needs funnier cartoonists.
2. The best — i.e., the most deliciously blasphemous — cartoons about Jesus on the internets either have giant copyright marks on them or come with flaming warnings that your head will explode if you reproduce them without buying them. So they’re not here. Sorry.

Other than that, my main contention still stands: the Danish cartoons are not racist and are certainly no more demeaning than the lampoons commonly directed at Jesus and Christianity. I don’t know what good that does at this point, but there it is.

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359 Responses to “Dueling Godbags: Cartoon Mohammed vs. Cartoon Jesus”

  1. visitor says:

    check back who is the cartonist ….
    non of them are muslims

  2. A nother says:

    Thankyou for bringing an educated apprasial to the fore. This is the first time I have seen the “12″ images, and was actually suprised at the lack of humour in the main, and the lack of anything controversial in all but 2 or 3.

    The displaying the image of the prophet is actually not against the words of the Koran, as I believe the wording goes to prevent idolisation of images and objects rather than along the degradation aspect. As for the cartoons against other faiths… from what I have seen prior to this, they are much more severe.

    I think all that has been demonstrated in these last few months is the arrogance of the Danish (and European’s in general) in the face of those of the Muslim faith. I’m not saying that they should not defend the free-press with all their life’s blood, but the behaviour has been like waving a red rag to a bull. More deftly, the media portrayals of the over-reaction in islamic regions and communities around the world has only fuelled the opinions of the non-muslims, that the religion is back-ward and uncivilized, whereas actually, there can be much beauty and tradition to be observed.

    Beware of propaganda, in this instance, the proliteriate are being used as foder in a battle. Both sides are getting exactly what they want from this coverage.

    Thanks again.

  3. Azim Anwarul says:

    I have seen the cartoon’s. It caused no reaction in me. But I tried to find out the motives behind. The cartoon is a mere facade. The newspapers editors had said , they wanted to see the reactions. Oridnary muslims all over the world reacted in a predicatbale manner.
    The cartoons will create an over all sub conscious impression in people that Islam and muslims are violant people.
    Proably that was the hidden objective of the controllers who are behind the scene
    Europe is being slowly prepared to see another holocaust may be in next 100 years.
    I agree with the Turkish foregin mininsters observations.
    Refer to theo van gogh episode.

  4. faizal says:

    haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  5. Finbar says:

    I thought the cartoon with the martyrs getting to heaven and Mohamed saying “Stop……” as funny as the cartoon Gilbert Sheldon did 30 years ago about Jesus going for a swim with his disciples: Jesus dives for the water and bounces off the top.
    The overall picture one gets of muslims from this present furore is one: they have no sense of humour, two: no sense of proportion, three; they allow themselves the right to act outside the law in order to satisfy a grievance.

    There is an interest in some parties to use and provoke disturbances regarding muslim and non-muslims. I am not convinced that it is purely conspiracies from racists and Jews and western whites which are fanning the flames.

    Knee jerks are all over the place and things are being repeated which are wrong. There are some muslims which allow depiction of Mohamed- the Sufi´s for instance. Muslims are misinterpreting the Koran just as easily as the Christians misinterpret the Bible, deliberately so for their own ends.

  6. anthony keogh says:

    it seems that the one thing that all religions seem to have forgotten in their bid to control, evangelise and grow, is the very basis of their belief…. Love and respect for each other, regardless of whether you agree or not. The cartoons were distasteful, but murdering people in retaliation is despicable. I’m sure neither God or Mohammed is pleased. Mabey we should get back to basics and consider what our religion is all about….

  7. Fanie de Villiers says:

    I live in South Africa, where the Muslims are a minority, making up less than 10% of the population. Most of the Muslims I have met and worked with were pleasant and non-violent. Having said that, it would be unbearable for me to move to a country that’s run my Muslims. It would seriously cramp one’s style … no booze, no easy women, no open press.

  8. isham says:

    Hey u guyz….. have u lost ur minds…. allah is the god…. woe u all

  9. Barbara says:

    Right on, sister!

    Love the bombing Prince of Peace! How true how true.

    Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall hurt!

  10. Lana says:

    Geez Fanie, i hope you are kidding. You think we have press freedom? Did you notice that our newspapers were barred from showing the offending images? And that there is a call to boycott the papers that described them? I had to find the images here to find out what the fuss was about. That’s as free as my ass in our country filled with ‘easy women’ and booze.

  11. Umar Yusufu says:

    Firstly, two things.

    First: Islam is a religion not a race. Therefore these cartoons are not racist!

    Second: Comparisons drawn with the Jesus cartoons, nulls your otherwise fairly apt points, as the artists are unlikely to be muslim.

    I believe that though they are mildly offensive, given the current climate. They are not out of order, like images of copulation with beasts etc. But this is only an opinion, shared by many but my opinion, formed in the west moulded to our cultures and our traditions.

    What we must do, is exercise due care and consideration for who will be insulted and why they will be insulted by our actions! Freedom of speech comes with great responsibility.

    The Protests in London last week showed people holding boards and shouting slogans calling for the death of the artist. Unbelievable!

    This is worrying, as it would seem that my “neighbour”, believes that iconography of any kind that he does not agree with, is punishable by death!!!

    We must all stand together against all kinds of extreemism. As this can only be achieved by mutual respect, if that means curbing ones tongue every so often and saying sorry.

    That’s not too high a price to pay.

  12. Umar Yusufu says:

    Lana, the very fact that you are able access these images here is a freedom in itself.

    After all the images of the violoence that we witness on the TV over the past week one question still rattles around in my head.

    Where are the women, what do they think?

    The Middle East is still rulled by punitive governments in male dominated societies run by clerics and families. This would hold the explanation to the violence, and over reaction. The sheer repression of a people, I believe manifests itself in violence when the one thing they hold dear is “insulted”. They need to take a real good look at the ruling classes.

    There is however no excuse for muslim people living in europe to call for violence or Jihad the likes of what we have seen recently from the vocal extreem minority. We need to look at that.

  13. Jimmy says:

    Hooray for FREEDOM! It is the 21st Century not
    the 6th Century. Try as they might the radical
    pseudo-religious tyrants will not propel us into the superstitious past. These idiots are freaked into violent hysteria by these cartoons! Unbelievable! Frankly the cartoons are not particularly good, and they are actually pretty mild with respect to political statements.
    Religious zealots are responsible for almost all of the violence in today’s world. If there are any moderate peace loving Muslims left in the world they had better learn to speak up for freedom.

  14. Fanie de Villiers says:

    Jimmy, I totally agree with you. The Danish cartoons are very mild compared to pictures of beheadings I’ve seen.

    Lana, I’ve only now learned that South African newspapers have been prohibited by the state from publishing the cartoons. So much for a liberal constitution! I think there’s fear of violence by Muslim extremists.

  15. Fanie de Villiers says:

    I want to buy Danish now to offset any boycotts taking place against Danish produce elsewhere. I hope there’s Danish beer available in South Africa!

  16. Jon says:

    Thank you for publishing these and providing a little forum for their discussion. I hope everyone in the world gets to see them. I think, however, it is difficult to compare, since there is no Christian rule against depicting Jesus at all. An equivalent would have to be something seriously sacrilegious, like some artists in years past have done by displaying a cross in a bowl of urine, for example, or smearing a statue of the Virgin Mary with feces. It’s hard to believe that it may be that offensive for a devout Muslim to see a depiction of the Prophet, but it is. So Muslims do have something to be angry about.

    On the other hand, many Muslims are judging Westerners with Muslim moral standards, just as we judge Middle Eastern cultures with Western moral standards, for example regarding women’s rights and press freedoms. The difference is that we Westerners simply invade and bomb those places that offend us, using freedoms and rights as justifications. Still, there is the danger of moral relativism. In the liberal West, freedom allows Christians and Muslims to protest and criticize and depict all they want. Not so in the Middle East. When protest is permitted as is the current case, it is all the more vehement and violent for being suppressed otherwise.

  17. neal says:

    Let me help clear the air some. What you may or may not know by now is that in addition to these twelve cartoons, there are also three others that were never published in any paper. That is because they were drawn up by the people from the Islamic Society of Denmark to “help show the hatred the west has for Islam.” One is a badly drawn catoon that depicts Mohammed as a pedophile. Another is an actual picture of a man with a pigs snout that is supposed to be Mohammed. I couldn’t tell if he was dressed that way or the pig snout was added. The final picture, which looks to be doctored, is that of a praying muslim being humped by a dog.

    Now it is my understanding that these are the ones that are being focused on by those trying to keep this whole thing going. Afterall, that is way radicals and extemists work. By lies, falsehoods, propaganda, fear and anger. (And right now I sure some of you are going to make some kind of comparison to Gearge Bush, but that is for another time.)

    Now I would like to address the thoughts that some have expressed above saying that the Jesus cartoons were probably not drawn by muslims. I will agree with them that the cartoons probably weren’t. However, I had no problem finding some that were.

    So my advice to the muslim world is, something both Jesus and Mohammed would agree with, and that is to first, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And secondly, turn the other cheek.

  18. Nauj C Zitro says:

    People must understand that all kinds of religions have been part of endless wars in our Homo sapiens society, in our cultures VS cultures, countries VS countries and empires against empires. So what is the problem now with this radical movement called “MUSLIM” from the prophet Mohammed. This religion wants to take over the world the wrong way, by allowing themselves to be hated by the whole world due to the wrong approach and radical believe about the Jihad, or religious war, or religious believe to convert people to the Muslim religion; The convincing of people thru their preaching into their religion is the right way, not thru forcing everybody to believe in their Mahoma God thru violence. I consider myself an atheist that believes in the law of nature. “Everything has to end”. Why is that religions have to end this beautiful world? Why is that martyr hood for a Muslim believer that commits suicide among innocent people in our 21st Century world is rewarded with so many virgins after death? Something is wrong here! Either we banned these religious believes from the face of the earth by considering them illegal or they shape themselves to do good things in society!

  19. Daan says:

    woehooeee..what is the big fuzz anyway, just have your own nice little religion and don’t kill anyone for it.. I mean isn’t this the same: “my god is the best, WHAT you have an other god? KABLAM..bullet in your head!!” OR:”my girlfriend is the best, WHAT you like your girlfriend better? KABLAM..bullet in the head”… feelin’ me??

  20. Marcel says:

    My goodness, most of the images seem to be more appropriate in the humor section of a smut mag. Why other than for provocation would you put it in a serious journal?

  21. David says:

    Wow, whatever happened to sticks and stones, but names can never hurt me. Is Islam so narrow minded that they would allow an infidel to have a say (humor mind you) in the depiction of their believes??

  22. Kiernan Walker says:

    I have watched this ludicrous drama unfold in recent days with some astonishment. I think that some of the debate is missing the point slightly.

    If I were to draw a cartoon depicting a certain racial stereotype in a negative way, then that’s racism and unacceptable. Insulting what people are and their race, is one matter.

    If I were to draw a cartoon depicting a sneering attitude towarda a belief, a view, or an opinion, then that is a freedom of expression that must not be curtailed. Let’s face it, anyone’s faith is just that, an opinion and view based upon what has been instilled in them or what they have come to believe through experience/education etc.

    Peoples’ views are not sacrosanct and the day that persons are excluded from expressing their own view even in a derogatory way on someone’s opinion, would be a sad day indeed. The content of the cartoons are immaterial. What is being attacked in the reaction to these doodles is someones’ right to sneer at a view or an opinion.

    If people restrict themselves to defining themselves by their faith and lash out when they perceive that their ‘beliefs’ are being criticised even offensively, then they are fools and ill educated ignorant fools at that.

  23. Rich Duff says:

    We’ve know for years that Mohammed was a war monger! If he wanted something, he took it! Nothing has changed with the Muslums since his departure from this planet. If you look at what led up to Desert Storm it was the desire of Sadaam to just take Kuwait & annex it. But then again, look what happened to the American indians! NOBODY came over here to their defense, so we just killed them & took their land!!!

  24. Justme says:

    Ok right, we are all human
    We all have beliefs
    And at one time or another we take the piss
    We do it to The Americans
    We do it to the English
    We do it to the French
    It would be racist if we DIDNT do it to the muslims
    Why don’t we threat about better, bigger issues. Its a cartoon, is it worth a life?
    Its a joke gone wrong, are you really going to take someones life
    “If we do not try to live together, we will die together”

  25. mat says:

    generally for me there is nothing to fuss about the caroon, seem to me very general and mild.

    but being a muslim, the only fact that raise their anger is that in muslim you are not allowed to depict the face of mohamad to prevent idolisation of mohamad.not in any form. he is just the messenger to the god and not for you to worship. he is just a human like us conveying the mesagge from god to promote the good path of life through true islam teaching which is oftenly mistranslated by many extremist followers or misled by the false leader.

    My advise is, please read the koran if you have the chance to do so, digest it and then it will show you what the real islam is. It always about promoting tolerance, living together, peace, harmony, promote good way of life, etc. There is no such suicide bomber nor violence permitted,

    you don have to embrace it, it is just for your good knowledge and understanding.

  26. Justme says:

    I might take u up on that idea. It would be interesting to read the koran

  27. tom says:

    everyone should just chill the fuck out a bit more.

  28. tom says:

    ‘they’re portraying us as violent!’
    ‘what shall we do?’
    ‘storm their houses with guns!’

  29. mat says:

    good for you JUSTME, then you will know why islam did not allow idolisation nor depiction of muhamad.

    just imagine what can happen if men start worhip a men extremely by thinking that doing so he will give you the heaven that he himself was never assured to. the image would become the holliest thing on this planet that no one can touch, remove, say or do any anthing but worship.

    bombing and kiling other will not bring you to heaven but good thing you do in you life will

  30. Angus Mummery says:

    Religion was, is and will be an excuse for terror.

    The buring Christians in Rom.
    The Crusades.
    9.11.

    I belive all musimes to be angry,
    but those who do terror have just found the cartoons as an excuse. How much of them have even seen one of the 12 reel ones? Some muslims made fake ones just to push emotions(mohamed with animals). May they burn in their hell.

  31. Alon Levy says:

    but being a muslim, the only fact that raise their anger is that in muslim you are not allowed to depict the face of mohamad to prevent idolisation of mohamad.not in any form. he is just the messenger to the god and not for you to worship. he is just a human like us conveying the mesagge from god to promote the good path of life through true islam teaching which is oftenly mistranslated by many extremist followers or misled by the false leader.

    I don’t buy it. Many ordinary people are depicted in art without idolization; I don’t see anyone idolize kings decpited in Renaissance paintings.

  32. Ameri.Jihad says:

    If through the use of “offensive” cartoons, we are able to pull all of the god-fearing fundamentalist muslim wackaloons out onto the street at once, all publicly displaying their terroristic intentions, we need a slough of more offensive cartoons in the media. Here is the reason: We get these camel-fuckin’ crazies all close together in one place and we fuckin’ bomb the shit out of them. WTF hasn’t the pentagon acted on this opportunity? If only in Iraq…

  33. bostongraf says:

    As an atheist, I have had the hatred of every religion pointed at me. I am the infidel. I am the non-believer.

    According to every westerm (i.e. non-asian) religion, I am the unsaved and I am going to hell. I will burn forever. Atheists in the past have been victim of torture, murder, outcast, and all forms of physical, psycological, and legal oppression.

    So tell me why I haven’t killed anyone for this offense? Why is it that athiests around the world haven’t taken up arms and burned embassies? How come nobody has called the bible “racist” or “anti-athiest”?

    Because we atheists know that it just doesn’t matter. I do not care what you think of me, because I have my own opinions…just like you do.

    Stop the violence. Realize that what others say and think and write just doesn’t matter.

  34. Christopher says:

    BRAVO to every news outlet in the world who has the courage to publish the cartoons!! I wish the United States media outlets had a spine. But, of course, the American media proves yet again what a bunch cowardly weasels they really are.

  35. Ray says:

    Bostongraf says: So tell me why I haven’t killed anyone for this offense? Why is it that athiests around the world haven’t taken up arms and burned embassies? How come nobody has called the bible “racist” or “anti-athiest”? Because we atheists know that it just doesn’t matter. I do not care what you think of me, because I have my own opinions…just like you do.

    Reply: Interesting. Maybe *you* haven’t, just as I have never embarked on a Crusade. But try looking at the well-documented atheistic purges in communist China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Soviet Russia and others. People’s of all religions were killed by the thousands by advocates of atheism. Many are still in prison or being persecuted for their beliefs in nations that are officially atheist. You are right though, that mutual respect is the key. Our responses are often subjective…one person takes offense, another doesn’t. Remember though, the truth is objective, not subjective and not based on our feelings. Philosophy 101.

  36. marc says:

    Few would disagree that publishing these cartoons was ill-advised, given the highly charged relations between adherents of the predominant monotheistic traditions today.
    However, the reactions of so many Muslims around the world is quite telling, isn’t it? What does it say about your religious faith when one is unable to transend the fear and anger in one’s heart and learn to embrace love and forgiveness, no matter what the circumstances? Why these cartoons have struck a chord among so many Muslims is clearly beyond rational thought.
    “Me thinks thou dost protest too much.” (Shakespeare)

  37. Just Brilliant says:

    I am an american white male. Thank you for posting the pictures. I am dissappointed the Times, Post, Herald, and others have not published the pictures, so the average person can make up their own mind. This violence displays barbaric Muslims. Muslims, without oil, you will go back to the dark ages! I am quitting oil as I have quit smoking, eating transfat and other “unhealthy” habits. I have not given up my pursuit of technology. I am not alone on the bike path.
    Later.

  38. Najla says:

    this is response to the person who was comparing the jesus cartoons with the prophet muhammed. what you are failing to understand is that it isn’t just that they are depicting him in an offensive way but that they are drawing him at all. It is agianst the muslim religion to draw pictures of the prophet at all. Wether it be a beautiful paiting of him and his family or a cartoon that is making fun of him. If it was against the christian religion to draw jesus then u could compare it. This is a smack in muslim’s face because it it something that out lord commanded not to do. I don’t beleive in innocent people dying for any cause but there comes a point when poeple just get tired.Muslims are the most prosecuted people right now. Every where we look there is something negative, or mocking, or rude being said about us. Live in our shoes. You can only beat someone down for so long before they strike back. I only hope that we as people will learn this before more innocent lives are taken.

  39. Halimi says:

    I am a muslim myself and don’t find these pictures offensive at all. Thanks for posting them on the net.

  40. Violet Socks says:

    Just to follow up on what Neal said in comment #17 above, this comment just appeared on my post about the history of Islam (Religions Evolve, Part 2: Islam):

    fuck u and fuck ur thinkings. any of you who thinks potraying the holy prophets is a good thing to do shuld try to potrate his father fucking a pig or his mother romancing with a striped animal. for gowssake cant u ever think of what will happen to u if u die

    I suspect at this point the provocateurs have thoroughly convinced many Muslims that the 12 cartoons above aren’t the only cartoons, and that there are other much worse ones we’re deliberately leaving out. Ay yi yi yi yi.

  41. Olav Athayde says:

    This is a case of, ” Much ado about nothing”
    I can’t understand why a joke cannot be better understood instead of people getting into a tizzy about it. Many of those protesting are being abused in their own countries in the name of Islam and otherwise have no basic rights. And how about the cartoons and other inflammatory comments, pictures, propoganda,etc being distributed and even broadcast from Mosques against the Jews, Christians and against Westerners per se, all in the name of freedom and religion? People in glass houses should definitely not throw stones (no pun intended).

  42. Alon Levy says:

    It is agianst the muslim religion to draw pictures of the prophet at all.

    Which is why Islamic art in Turkey and India gets treated the same way as these cartoons.

  43. bostongraf says:

    It is agianst the muslim religion to draw pictures of the prophet at all.

    But the people who did the cartoons aren’t Muslim!! Why do they have to follow the rules of a religion and/or country that they are not in? Deny them the ability to join the Muslim faith, but KILL THEM?!?! Come on!

    And then there’s the whole idea of killing/punishing Danes that had nothing to do with it…While the extremist Muslims scream to be understood, they are displaying an incredible lack of understanding themselves.

  44. marc says:

    Thank Najla!
    You comments shed light on why these cartoons have struck such a strong chord with many Muslims. And you admit that there is much more behind the violent reactions than a few mediocre “cartoons”. However, if Muslims are the “most persecuted people right now,” nowhere is this most evident than in predominantly Muslim countries that have few of the freedoms we enjoy in the West and have had very unfortunate human rights records. That said, no nation on earth is immune to the evils of ignorance and hatred. I applaud the many Muslim brothers and sisters throughout the world who, faced with such ignorance, choose not to fight fire with fire, where nobody wins.

  45. christian mahmud says:

    Faith is stupid, religion is crime. The Muslims’ protest to 12 cartoons is another illustration (if history wasn’t enough). I predict and hope that religions will disappear in the next hundred years – as well as smoking – their cousin in wisdom. And how about this: Functioning churches, mosques and all other sorts of temples should have a setback of at least a mile from any public place (or road) – so as not to offend the feelings of good, rational people. How’s that for a building code?! A slogan I’d like to see: Practice your crappy thing but out of my sight! Please keep in mind the great parallel: Religion – smoking. Both bad for you, crappy, not to be respected.

  46. Wally says:

    For any religion or society to use such a lame excuse as this to warrant and encourage mob violence and murder is beyond belief.

    To watch it happen on a global scale should force us all to consider what may occure if a “real” insult were published somewhere.

    Perhaps this should be a wake up call for all non-muslims

  47. Freemage says:

    marc (#44) said it best–the fact that these were drawn and published by non-Muslims actually REMOVES the validity of the ‘sacreligious to depict the Prophet’ argument. According to the branches of Islam that forbid such depictions, the artists, as non-Muslims, were ALREADY going to hell–their opinions shouldn’t matter.

  48. Irish says:

    Since when did people start taking cartoons seriously? Worst part is, they aren’t even funny.

    The sooner Muslims realize that their political leaders are manipulating them by using religious fervor to distract them from the fact that they are being oppressed, the sooner they will be better off and living a happier more peaceful existence.

    One thing both sides have in common is the masses of innocent good people are being manipulated by sleaze-bag politicians to further their own selfish agenda. Whatever it may be.

    Muslims aren’t evil, Jews aren’t evil, Christians aren’t evil. Politicians? Yep they’re evil.

    We should all ban together and declare jihad on politicians; they are the ones sacrificing our God(Allah) given right to exist together in peace as brothers and sisters.

  49. PhillyFirefighter says:

    bostongraf, I like your thinking. I’m a Catholic, don’t think your going to hell for being a non-believer, and admire your viewpoint on this whole thing. If you’re a muslim and a non-muslim does something to offend you… WHO CARES!!!! This whole thing is just a precursor to World War III– Christians against Muslims. It was Christian extremeists back in the Crusades that spread terror, now the Muslims have taken their place. The only difference now is the enhanced techology that makes the death toll that much higher. The human race in general is just too ignorant to realize that the boundaries that seperate us are superficial– political, religious, whatever. If everybody chilled out a bit we could all live together peacefully. But then again, the agitators don’t want peace because they wouldn’t be in the limelight.

  50. leif says:

    So, Islam (or some sects of it) prohibit drawings of Muhammed. And, because some non-Muslim people draw him, Muslims get upset. Wouldn’t that be a lot like Jews getting upset because someone eats a pork chop in front of them? Or maybe Buddhists worldwide should riot, because Orkin employees deliberately kill large numbers of insects. Should Hindus tolerate the existance of McDonalds?

  51. Kia says:

    fuck-um if they cant take a joke

  52. Nas says:

    i looked and looked to see if these cartoons are funny, or describe muslims in gerneral, but i couldnt see it. and my question is what was the reason of publishing these cartoons.? and if there is a reason was is acomplished? the only thing was acomplished is Embassies ware closed, people were killed.

    my advise to danmark newspapers, plz dont go back 1400 years or 2000 years, u only causing problems.

  53. Violet Socks says:

    This isn’t a battle of Christians versus Muslims.

    Rather than repeat myself, let me just direct you to my comment regarding this on the original thread and the subsequent discussion that ensued.

  54. Violet Socks says:

    Nas, it’s my understanding that the publication of the cartoons (4 months ago) did not cause the embassy burnings and deaths. Those were the result of the outrage deliberately provoked and cultivated by imams who have been flogging the cartoons in the Muslim world for months, telling people the Prophet had been insulted.

  55. peiper says:

    plz dont go back 1400 years or 2000 years,

    Wait a minute. You’re saying the paper went back 1400 yrs? Seems ta me the Muslims like living there. So you didn’t think any were funny? Well I did. No more virgins was a laff.

    The reason for publishing? Because the muslims themselves (the killers amomg em) have caused MOST of the western world to see them that way.

  56. L Toni says:

    Dont Blame HIM for THEIR sins
    First: Religion is sacred, NO prophet should be discraced like this, not even in revenge will Gesus, Moses or any other prophet be targeted…

    Mohammed (peace be upon him), The last of the prophets sent to the world, has been injustly blamed for the sins of many of his followers.
    They did what they wanted to, without thinking that the world sees HIM in their actions… and it has lead to this shameful discrace on his name and immage by those who dont know him at all, and if they did they would have never thought to do so… for he was a great man, father brother and teacher to all of humanity.

    I ask the artists of these cartoons, think of the worst thing you have done in your life, If I blamed the most beloved person to you instead of you and went and drew distasteful insulting pictures of your mother or father and published them in the papers ……would i be justified in doing so?
    Mohammad is more beloved to every muslim than his/her mother or father and even himself.

    We muslims must teach the whole world who Mohammed Bin Abdullah was… We have not done his legacy justice and after this we must start and do every efort we can to continue teaching Islam the way he did. Allah (the creator) chose him to relay his message to the world, and we must continue relaying it.

    For now I will refer the reader to these sites to read WHO MOHAMMED WAS and know that a great injustice has been done to a great man
    Go to
    http://www.whyislam.org this has good discussion forums

    http://www.quraan.com/index.aspx read the life of Mohammed,, this is a great site to start with

    Thank you for reading

  57. Violet Socks says:

    L Toni, did you read my post? Are you just commenting here without even reading my analysis of the cartoons?

  58. Stephanie says:

    Whatever happened to freedom of speech? I don’t care what religion you belong to, if that religion sponsors violence against innocents, then it is a false religion. Anyone who thinks that Moslims are being unfairly singled out by these little cartoons is living in a dream world. In the bible it says by their fruits you shall know them. I just think that if the shoe fits, then let it blow you up.

  59. bostongraf says:

    L Toni

    I think you should be careful with your words…It sounds almost like you are idolising Mohammed. Isn’t that kind of worship the reason Muslims are not to depict him?

  60. Cyrus Jabbari says:

    Hello, i’m Cyrus, and i am a muslim. First of all, what you dont understand is that in Islam, pictures of the prophet is not allowed, so that is already something offensive to do, and that made me mad. What disgusts me the most though is that the danish cartoonists who made this said they dont regret their decision.

  61. What happened to respect? says:

    To have something one holds most sacred in there lives to be mocked and humiliated infront of the world will cause a negative reaction.
    I’ve read many comments in the past few weeks by people that say we should just bomb them all.
    How would this solve the problem? It is your mentality why the Muslims are doing what they are doing. This is why Iran will have nuclear weapons technology, not for any other reason but to defend itself from hillbilly terrorist with the biggest aresonal of chemical and nuclear weapons in the world. Not only do they have the weapons they lack common since. Common since…why invade Iraq? Why invade Afghanistan? Why kill 30000 CIVILIANS? Why not just change your foreign policy? Why not lift sanctions and embargos that are crippling many Middle Eastern countries (the people getting crippled are turning to terrorism (as you call it)?

    The world has 10 times more, as you call, terrorist today then it did on 9/11. You had a chance to stop it but instead continued it. You didn’t know where to start, so you decided to bomb more, kill more, repress more. creating more enemies, more terrorist, more blood.

    Muslims hold there religion and beliefs very highly and we will protect it at any cost.

    The American empire is weakening, the economy is so far in debt, our children will have to pay 75% taxes just to pay the interest we’re going to owe China. Now is the time for peace, save your beutiful free country and do not meddle in others. What did those pictures prove. If there is a freedom of expression in Europe why is it illegal to talk against the holocaust? why are there double standards?
    But thanks to these drawings the 1.1 BILLION Muslims have united on a common front against the satirical pictures that disgrace a very beautiful and divine faith. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that uniting the 1.1 Billion people that have control over 75% of the worlds OIL. You have given us the power now to cripple your economy.

  62. PhillyFirefighter says:

    Why should the Dutch cartoonists regret their decision? Their culture and nation permit them to think for themselves (thankfully). The only reason most of us even know about it is because of the internet. Do you think these are the first “offensive” images ever developed? Cut me a break, no one is that naive. You know what disgusts me? The 3000 Americans (actually people of many, many nations) that were killed by “Muslims” celebrating Allah. Maybe some of you should have gone to Ground Zero with me, and gone to funerals to see children carrying their father’s fire helmet; come back to me after that and we can talk about what happens when a group (culture, religion etc) does the thinking for you.

  63. Violet Socks says:

    Cyrus, why should Muslim regulations apply to non-Muslims? In Denmark?

    Jewish kosher laws prohibit eating milk and meat together. Should this be against the law in Islamic countries? Should Orthodox Jews burn down embassies because somebody, somewhere, is eating fried chicken with a glass of milk?

  64. PhillyFirefighter says:

    Hey “What Happened to Respect?” If you think American is just the worst and most offensive place in the world……LEAVE! There is one great beautiful thing about our country, that is, the borders are just as open to leave as they were to come in. Do I agree with everything our nation does? Of course not. Do we get involved in everybody else’s business a little too much- I believe so. Here’s a great idea- lets back out of every foreign aid program we fund. Watch as countless more people in African nations starve to death without the aid the US supplies. Applaud as the UN crumbles (80% US funded, at least on paper) and those refugee camps all over the world close up shop. Isolationism is dead and has been for quite a while. By the way, Muslims will go to any length to defend their faith, as will myself and most Americans go to any length to defend our freedom and liberty.

  65. toni says:

    i donot believe that the muslims are helping themselves by acting this way. how can their religion be so great if all they do is kill people. how will they ever get any respect or gratitude. what is wrong with them. they are like hitler…just want to take over the world.

  66. bostongraf says:

    In these reply messages, there seems to be a lot of anger being expressed at the US for this incident.

    The US had nothing, zero, nadda, zilch to do with this incident. Our (US) government has come out and said it was a bad idea to publish them… They have the right to do it! But it was a bad idea, and disrespectful.

    Must admit that its pretty odd to NOT be the target this time!

  67. PhillyFirefighter says:

    Another point- American solidarity is not weakening (or empire, as you call it). Patriotism is alive and well in this nation. Despite politicians best efforts to draw us apart with partisan politics, the American spirit is the strongest there is. Wait until the next attack on American soil and you will witness the full extent of American solidarity. I can’t wait for alternative sources of energy to more fully develop so we can rid ourselves of the dependence on Middle Eastern oil, and stop catering to the beliefs of extremeist whackos.

  68. Violet Socks says:

    To What happened to respect?:

    I agree with you that American foreign policy is counterproductive. Disastrous, actually. And we’re effectively just creating more terrorists.

    Please note that this is not a right-wing pro-war blog; I’m a political liberal and a secularist. So my position in favor of free speech for Danish cartoonists is NOT part of some overall package of jingoistic hatred for Muslims. I believe in free speech for all people, along with freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of political action, etc.

    I’m pointing this out just so you and others reading here understand that even people like me, who totally oppose Bush’s foreign policy and the Iraq war, are unsympathetic to Muslim repression of free speech and find the reaction to these little cartoons completely inappropriate.

    Frankly, I think many Muslims are being manipulated into war fever by propagandists, just like Americans are being manipulated by propagandists.

  69. L Toni says:

    We do idealize him, but not as a god, there is only one god, he is a prophet, we do not disrespect them in any way, and no matter what the analysis of the cartoons is, everyone knew they shouldnt do it, yet went ahead and made insulting cartoons, like i said in my first comment on a man who is not to blame for …by the way the WRONG PICTURE of ALL muslims being killers… ONLY KILLERS MAKE NEWS HEADLINES peace loving, friendly people living with their international neighbors with no problems… DONT!!!!

  70. Nauj C Zitro says:

    I feel so good to be a Bolivian -American, there is too much freedom in America about allowing these “religious maggots believers of Muhammad” be allowed to preach killing a person if they are not part of their crazy Muslim religion. I don’t want them near or close to me ‘cause I would kick their asses or kill them all, why nowadays are these people still believing in the human sacrifice? Aren’t they crazy? Why don’t they kill themselves and go to their fucking sacred places so they don’t come back to hurt the good people? I call this religion the “EVIL RILIGION” and should be banned from preaching everywhere in this beautiful universe. Lets kill them all!!! Bunch of lunatics!!!!! I really got freedom of expression here! I love this world! I want to enjoy it till I die! I really could say it that I hate these Mother Nature ignorant Muslim motherfuckers!

  71. Violet Socks says:

    So you love your freedom of expression so much that you think Muslims should be killed for preaching their religion? Run that by me again?

  72. Nauj C Zitro says:

    If you have a muslim neighbor warn him/her to get the fuck out of your sight or die believing in their martyrhood!!!ha,ha,ha,or let me know to fix their stupid believes!!!

  73. Redneck says:

    Thanks for the thoughtful analysis of the 12 offending cartoons. Here in the cradle of democracy aka land of the great Satan no paper that I’m aware of has had the stones to publish these images. I’d like to think it’s because, other than the “no more virgins” drawing, they just aren’t that funny. btw, I guarantee that you could have found a gazillion images depicting Jews and their faith in a light much worse than the Muhammad cartoons. I assume that you were paralyzed by the plethora of choices . . . Peace!

  74. Nauj C Zitro says:

    violet stok let me place you as an orament on top of my 4X4 bumper. I do not believe on any of those stupid sacred believes. As Mr. Mn. Governor once said “Relions are for weak humans” ha,ha,ha.

  75. Nauj C Zitro says:

    lets BTK these Motherfuckers believers!!

  76. Reza says:

    PhillyFirefighter

    Make a comment and people tell you to leave America, hey I’m not aloud to speak against anything. What happened to freedom of expression? This is exactly the double standard i’m talking about. You played into it very well. I still respect your opinion of me and will not let you upset me.
    Nauj C Zitro, now your just crazy and have no idea what your talking about. But again your opinion is welcome too, but I also welcome your threats and hope we do meet one day. My experience with irrational people and one’s that lose control of their emotions so quick is that they had a troubled childhood, so i apologise to you for your rough up bringing and may Allah bless you, just as he has blessed me with a wonderful life and a great family. May Allah bless all of you

  77. Andrew says:

    Muslims who protest this are ridiculous. They cut people’s heads off, but get pissed about Marmaduke.

    You’ve told us that the Koran says “no cartoons”, fine. What does the Koran say about murder? Hypocrites!

    We need to print more and more of these cartoons until they all grow up, learn to look the other way, and not take everything so Allah-damn serious.

    Maybe one day Muslim women will have rights, what a backward society. Mob mentality is moronic.

  78. Smitty says:

    And kids, don’t forget to watch al-Jazeera’s pre-Olympic special, Wide World of Wahhabic Sports!

  79. Christopher says:

    In the beginning, this was just about the representation of Mohammed. But what constitutes representation?

    Here’s my take, from Uncommon American:
    Don’t Even THINK About Mohammed

  80. Dan E says:

    Isn’t getting upset about a picture of a prophet already idolizing that person?

  81. Welsh Caz says:

    I’m another who is grateful to have been able to view the cartoons and see what exactly all the fuss is about. Can’t see it and I really believe that the ‘ordinary’ peace keeping and true traditional muslim would be able to take them for what they are.. rubbish cartoons like many gone before.. and simply ignore them.

    I think it’s plain that radical and violent people are at work under the ‘banner’ of the muslim faith (just like there are under the banner of other faiths). They are hoping beyond all hope, to cause uprising amongst young impressionable and deeply moved people to raise arms against their fellow man and cause even more civil wars.

    I live in the UK and I love this country of mine. I am not racist but I truly detest those who take residence up in other countries only to raise their hands in violence against the very land that provides them with a home and some stability.. and I’m not talking about the UK I am talking generally about ALL countries and all people.

    This country too has wronged by invading other lands, that is clear as we look back through the history books. We should learn from this and move forward.

    I was offended to see placards being openly waved, which dislpayed obvious and direct intentions and thoughts to incite violent actions. I did not, however, utter one single word in anger, I kept my thoughts to myself (until now) and I think that Mohammed and any other God might be looking down on me right now and wishing his/her people were doing just the same. Living peacefully and not raising arms up against my fellow man.

    May your God forgive you.. all those who go against his/her wishes. And may your God bless you.. all those who live within his/her law.

  82. proudtobewhatiam. says:

    u ppl claim that what needs to change in the world is the relationship between the muslims and the west but how could this possibly happen with something so offensive being portrayed in the west…….. is this a positive message??? do you think it is gonna settle any disputes or is it gonna make those anti-west terrorist even more aggressive???? why do ppl invite danger themselves

  83. Ray Charles Istre says:

    Are the jihadists really upset because it was just a little old timey bomb depicted in Mohammeds turbin instead of a real nuke like the “Christian” nations have?

    As an American artist, should I depict Jesus with a nuke protruding out of his cloak?

    That reminds me of the cold water in that Arkansas river that was deep too.

  84. bostongraf says:

    To Violet Socks:
    Thank you for posting the cartoons so that we can all make an honest and informed picture of what this is about. Also, thanks for you thoughts on the subject.

    Especially thank you for providing this forum to voice our thoughts. This forum cuts right to the core of what free speech means. It appears as though you are not removing any messages, regardless of how much you agree or disagree with what is said.

    Thank you for this great display of freedom.

  85. Violet Socks says:

    Thank you. You’re right — I’m not removing any messages, however freaky and hateful they may be. I’m hoping that allowing a free discussion (and occasionally trying to interject some sense) will be beneficial in some small way.

  86. neal says:

    Well damned if this thing just didn’t take off. So rather than addressing each and everyone of you to which I have something to say, I’m just going to make some genral statements.

    First, Nauj C Zitro, you I will address. You claim to be thankful to be here in the US where you have all these freedoms, yet the first thing you want to do is not only take these freedoms away from muslims, but to take their lives as well. Very unAmerican.

    Next, to all the muslims who have offered their opinions. I do consider myself a christian, baptist in fact. And while I do believe Christianity to be the religion that will provide me with an afterlife, I do not believe you or anyone of any other religion or for that matter, atheists, should die for not sharing my beliefs. I believe in the end, whether it your God or mine, He (or She in some cases. After all, this is all about tolerance) will sort it out. And if there turns out to not be a god, then it won’t matter, will it.

    Also, I realize that it is not all muslims who are reeking havoc. That most moderate islamics are fine with the cartoons. It is the extemists and radicals who happen to be in positions to manipulate the uniformed and uneducated who are the ones that are to blame. They created three fake cartoons, which, if I were muslim, would probably offend the hell out of me. Lord only knows how upset I get when I see a cross sitting in a jar of urine, all in the name of art. But if you disagree with something, protest, peacefully. Don’t start burning and killing.

    As for those who say ther should be no religion, you should first know that without religion there would be no laws. Have they all been good laws? No. But in the absence of law, you end up with one of two things. Either anarchy or a dictator. Sorry but I will choose religion.

    And to Ms Violet and others, whether muslim, christian, etc., you will know who you are. Thanks for having a reasonable head on your shoulders. My faith in humanity is, for the moment, restored.

    I will pobably read through this again and ind something else to say. Afterall, I have found my soapbox needs a good workout.

  87. neal says:

    Just remembered something else. I believe the first is not even a cartoon, but was to be used in a children’s book to help small kids be able to better understand Islam.

  88. Bob Sunman says:

    We have a problem: it begins with the fundamental tenet of islamic faith that blasphemy must be punished by death, linked to the corollary that for Christians to proclaim Christ to be the Son of God is blasphemy. Where do you go from there?
    There is another problem and that is that most Muslims do not believe in nor live by the words of the Prophet. Instead, they accept all the many false Hadiths which have been imported from various religions over the years. For my only example, – because I’m fed up with fighting this war, – if a Muslim woman covers her face or her hair, she is committing blasphemy, because the Q’ran states that ‘women shall cover their breasts revealing their beauty only to their husbands’. The injunctions about covering anything else come from blasphemous false hadiths, so you can begin to see that islam is not one religion but many hundreds of religions, and the imams and clerics hate scholars like me who point out to them that whole structure is a lie built on lies and that only the words of the Prophet are valid, – because that renders the personal interpretation of these words to be – guess what? – Blasphemy, and the banning of images is also from false hadiths and so is Blasphemy. The Prophet never banned icons or images of himself, nor indeed representations of God. God nat, sov god.

  89. Marky says:

    This is directed at people who are condeming newspapers of “free” states who choose NOT or state to publish the cartoons.

    Most reasonable people agree that followers of Islam have the right to be offended by the drawings, even if some non-Muslims cannot see what the trouble is about. Muslims have (rightly or wrongly) boycotted the products of several companies from many different countries,losing these companies millions of $$ in trade. Again, fair enough, that is their choice.

    But what I hope people can realise is that now choosing to place the cartoons in a newspaper, and knowing the likely consequences, this has now become an economic problem as well as a statement of defence of free speech.
    Some companies can ill-afford bad feeling within Muslim countries. I am guessing that any major company that is dependant on trade with the Middle East would be putting a great deal of pressure on any publishers to which they paid advertising revenues. And why not? They are simply defending THEIR interests. So my point is, some governements asking for the images to NOT be published may be doing so for the purely economic problems some government recognise will occur. People will say “but they are just giving in to them”. My reply, “yes, for a variety of reasons, they are. But so what? It’s a free world, isn’t it?”

    South Africa went a bit far though, I think.

    On a different note: Isn’t totally free speech just as extreme as complete censorship? Protection of individual freedom seems to be proving to be a costly “right” for several countries where it is held so dear. Couldn’t just a bit more communism be good? And why are “free” markets not actually “free”? Don’t all countries have tariffs of one type or another?

    Sorry about all the “”s!

  90. katie says:

    wow. well i find the muslim ones more offensive than the christian ones.

    in the first place, a couple of the christian ones are making fun of the people who try to brand and package jesus, not jesus himself. in the case of pooping from the cross – well big deal, every one has bodily functions; mohammed using up the virgins in heaven, well that’s offensive + it makes it seem like the folks coming into heaven are just bombing others “for the sex.” they don’t show any modern people misunderstanding mohammed. it’s just him and his followers.

    the pics of jesus with gun, etc, are obviously parody. they point to Repulicans, or the All American Church of the Religious Right – they’re making fun of the people who would have jesus carrying a gun, like someone with a deer lease in east georgia. They are not making fun of Jesus. They conclude: “this is how these people depict Jesus. Isn’t it ridiculous?”

    the pic of mohammed with a bomb of the world plays on the world’s fears that the religion itself is going to blow up the world. we really are afraid of that in the west. many people in the east believe that jesus is inspiring US imperialists to take over the world… spread “US-style democracy” and even hasten the second coming.

    it doesn’t say, “Republican Mohammed” or “PLO Mohammed” it’s just a picture of Mohammed.

    to be equivalent, the cartoons about Jesus would have to show him being a hypocrite – the same way the Last Temptation of Christ did. that would be equivalent.

    The idea that showing sensitivity to religions is not compatible with secular nation is b.s. As in any relationship, there are periods of tension, sensitivity, etc. It’s OK to be sensitive to certain ethnic & religious groups at various times. That’s just called being human.

    Peace to all!

  91. Violet Socks says:

    Katie: Why is Jesus on a bomb obvious parody, but Mohammed with a bomb isn’t?
    Why are pictures of Jesus “obviously” really about modern Christians, but pictures of Mohammed are “obviously” really about Mohammed?

    Also, I don’t remember Jesus being shown as a hypocrite in Last Temptation. That was a lovely film.

  92. invinity says:

    that represent insult to Islam..!!! That’s not f**king Funny..! Damn all the people who created that s**t..!

  93. neal says:

    To invinity

    What do you think of when you see cartoons depicting Jews, christians, or even Jesus in very bad and negative ways that might be offensive to them?

  94. roy says:

    I am in middle age. I was brought up as a christian, though through experience have formed my own view of religion and the terrible consequences of it. I was never in any way racist. peoples religious and political preferences and beliefs have never been a consideration in the way i saw or treated people.
    Unfortunately I have, over the last couple of years, found myself becoming more and more bitter towards muslims and becoming a racist. Most of my friends feel the same way. I believe that this is happening because of the fact that the western world has been bending over backwards to accommodate these people and their demands for political correctness. (Christmas lights being called winter lights & Merry Christmas is now Happy Holidays). Why. If these people want to live in peace and harmony with me and like minded people then they should let us live our lives without interferance. What demands do we make of them?
    Sadly I see only one outcome. Civil war. Muslims may talk about an uprising but When the RISE UP they will be defeated. Though more sad still is the fact that if things continue going the way they are the war will come to them.
    I think all Schools should start to teach common sense and drop
    religion

  95. roy says:

    Religion be damned

  96. qedpro says:

    first its cartoons. then its the women who are walking around without bags on their heads!!!
    It will never end. Its not the cartoons that are offensive to them — its our existence

  97. Violet Socks says:

    By the way, to all who mentioned that the Jesus cartoons I posted weren’t quite offensive enough: I did find several that I knew would be more offensive to Christians, although they weren’t exactly good matches for the Mohammed cartoons. The real problem is that I’m not going to pay $13 per cartoon just to post them. I would have loved to post one showing Jesus lusting after a very voluptuous woman. If you’re interested, go to cartoonstock.com and search for “Jesus” in the keyword — there are pages of copyrighted cartoons. Some are mild but there are some doozies sprinkled in there.

  98. Spelunko says:

    I would find all of this hoopla funny except for the deaths.
    As for images of Muhammed, change the name to Demmahum. Who gives a rats ass.
    The violence is coming from the ones that want violence. If you want to fight, anything can be provocative.
    I appreciate being able to finally see the cartoons. plus the Jesus cartoons in comparison. What I would really like to see is a collection of religious cartoons done by muslims that depict Jesus, Moses, Buddha, etc in some demeaning manner.
    If the image of Muhammed is not to be depicted, than if a muslim sees an picture like this, than assume it is not Mohammed. There are many other Muslims out there than in the middle east remember.
    It is the same old same old. We have a religion that states peace is the best way, yet, if you cross me, you are dead. asically, protect your “loving” religion with violence. rediculous.

  99. christian mahmud says:

    Neal (message #86), where is this certainty of yours coming from? (“As for those who say ther should be no religion, you should first know that without religion there would be no laws.”) Probably from your Sunday preacher – they like to tell you that, don’t they? But read any law in a civilized country – none starts with “God says”. The other way around is rather true: if any law starts somewhere with “God says” – that’s not a civilized place. And I think that’s the problem with many of our fellow Muslims – they are coming from, or are living in, such un-civilized, inhumane places – and it shows. They were indoctrinated to follow crazy preachers who think that the law starts with “God says”. (“Savonarola to be continued”; http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/savonarola.html.) You can also ask a lawyer (instead of a preacher) how many laws came from God and how many from the Romans, Napoleonic Code, etc. (Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisprudence, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law – God is never mentioned, thanks God!) Time for the religions to crock! Faith is stupid, religion is crime! (I think any indoctrination of your fellow man/woman is a crime against humanity – communism, Nazism, cultural revolution, militant religion, etc.) (Even your Sunday preacher – more pushy he is, worse is his crime – especially if he drives a Mercedes and screams while preaching.)

  100. Violet Socks says:

    What I would really like to see is a collection of religious cartoons done by muslims that depict Jesus, Moses, Buddha, etc in some demeaning manner.

    I too would be interested to see those. I’ve been told they exist and are printed in Arabic and Persian newspapers, but they don’t seem to be on the internets. (Or rather, they don’t come up when I search in English on Google.) If anyone wants to send me links, great.

  101. dove says:

    Well this seems to be churning out into an interesting discussion forum. Well I can understand the bruised sentiments over the caricature and I personally voice my concerns regarding this if sentiments were hurt. But what about the ignorance of the greater injustice rendered by the same group of people over people of other religions in their countries. Countries like Saudi Arabia for ages have never permitted people from other religion to worship their Gods. They have hunted them down like dogs and desecrated their worship places. They have openly lynched people who preach other religion or carry religious documents. There are umpteen cases of all this in the past decade. Where were all these sympathizers then? Can these people who are so concerned about sentiments campaign against various governments in the Middle East to permit free worship of their respective religion??? I hope more and more people who have experienced what I am talking about will come forward and share their experiences on this regard. There are ample reliable sources that have documented burning of religious documents by these fanatics in the so-called Muslim countries. Is there a single country in the WEST where Muslims cannot profess their faith or practice it? Doesn’t all this mean respect? The taliban openly destroyed the Buddhist Monasteries in Afghanistan desecrating the Buddhists faith. What was that for?? Hordes of Muslims ransack minority villages in Indonesia every day. I do not see this furor then? What about all this? Is this what is called mutual respect?
    According to the Bible a man is supposed to have only one wife and what happens if the Christian countries try to impose this on the rest of the world. Certain cultures and religion ascribe to polygamy and no one can force it on anyone. The Jews, Buddhist and Hindus have similar beliefs too. The Hindus strongly disagree on eating Beef as
    The Cow is holy to them and it is considered their God. Aren’t the people of the Muslim world disregarding that? Does that mean people of India should start boycotting Arabic products or products from Islamic world? Isn’t that Insane? Every religion has certain beliefs and you cannot expect people of other religion to abide by that.
    The reasons why Issues have not flared up regarding all this is only because people of other religions have been tolerant to such matters and have respected personal religion and personal space.
    That’s what the fanatics need to understand. This is not a war between cultures or race or religion. If that was so, is there an iota of doubt about the capabilities of the so-called Christian countries to destroy the Arab nations?? It could happen is jiffy if that was the intension of the WEST. Why not now when the Muslim world is weak and lack nuclear power than later??? So it’s clear that no one is running a Crusade here or planning to wipe out any race or religion. I guess after Bible has become accessible to the public, Christians have always abhorred the very crusaders for they were anti-Biblical acts. The Christian world has grown out of all the prejudice in the course of time. But these fanatics who have their own axe to grind are using this as a pretext to blind the world of the reality of mutual respect and pander to the lower tastes of egos and complex for the developed world. Muslim countries that have stood for development have achieved what they dreamed and have succeeded to provide their subjects with all the facilities of the modern world. Examples are before you, all you need to do is open your eyes as a human being and see. I don’t see any kind of hatred being spewed from those countries at all. It’s a matter of seeing things in distinction. One cannot condemn a government or a religion for acts perpetrated by a person. I Strongly believe that the Muslim world needs to see the rest of the world with a broader perspective and start to see it as a place that belongs to people irrespective of religion. Only then can peace prevail.

  102. MieSerdanG says:

    Whuts da realy *Bastard* cartoon..Damn!

  103. FreakyG says:

    PUKIMAK KORANG LAAAAAAAA….JAHANAM PUNYE KARTUNIS,MACAM GAMPANG,SETAN LAHANAT KORANG..!!! (*If U dont Understand whats that,Please looked up this on Bahasa Melayu Dictionary*) Hahahahaha..Jesus Fuck!

  104. Violet Socks says:

    New rule: post in English.

  105. visitor says:

    to neal …
    if there is a cartoon in a negative way about christians/jews god … why just keep quit about it ? i dont want to say this but … it means that you guys dont care that much when your god/prophets are being insulted … if not .. you guys just wont be sitting around …. unlike you guys we respect our prophet muhammad bcause he is the messenger of god …. if the cartoonist didnt know how does muhammad look like … why didnt he ask any muslims around why there is no picture of him ? isit that hard to ask ????

    dove … we eat beef (and so do you ) to fill our stomach thats all AND WE HAVE NO INTENTION AT ALL TO INSULT THEIR GOD UNDERSTAND !?!?!?!
    but this drawing is diffrent … its purely shows their intention of INSULTING !!!!

    if you saying that prophet insulting is tolerable … then … i dont think you should have a religion at all … you’ll just bring shame to that certain religion

    i think you’re the one who need to widen your horizon

  106. Ben says:

    The muslim world calls these carton’s offensive. Several months ago pictures of Saddam Hussain in his underpants were deemed offensive too. Yet Al jazeera will show pictures of a man having his head cut off in the name of information. Does that mean that Abu Hamza is sufferable of a similar fate now he has been convicted?

  107. visitor says:

    freakyG .. i understand how you feel but insulting their god makes you just the same as what they are doing to ours …

  108. dove says:

    To visitor…
    see by saying that you are eating beef don’t you think thats offensive to the Hindus? Why are you not talking about the other concerns that I have addressed and is known publically? No one is disregarding any one here. The caricature was done by some person trying to make a point to the Muslims and not trying to degrade the NABI.
    Same as your intention is to filling your stomach with beef and not disregard a religion.But the action is definitly condemable in their perspective and they have voiced their concerns several times. Why is that ignored ?
    Why are you only thinking from your side. My religion teaches me to repect others and I would do it. I cannot expect any other person to follow me or force anyone to do so. Ideas and intentions need to be studied and not the action .
    If you have not seen the NABI why are yo so concerned then ? where in the Quran does it say that no other person of another religion is not permited to draw or envisage NABI ?

    What do you have to say about people in Arab countries not being allowed to practice their own religion? why don’t you think about all that and see this in a broader perspective.

  109. whAteVer says:

    muslim is a religion..and in muslim it is not right to draw the picture of Allah (the god) and also mohammed himself..Everyone should be aware of this..learn to respect other people..its not that muslims cant take jokes..they can, as long as it is not againsts the law of islam..if ya all dunno how to respect other people..at least respect urself as a civilised human being..in this world,there is no law sayin dat we cant speak our mind,but if we want to show our point of view we should think about other people 2..how would y all feel if the press publish cartoons of ur mother making love with a pig?? pissed off rite?? the same things goes to the muslims..bear in mind that a cartoon speaks a thousand words..peace

  110. dove says:

    to whatever,
    I deely understand your concern but even the language that you use shows your disregard for family and family values. How could you ask such a question if you think that will hurt others sentiments? so are you not contradicting what you are saying? I don’t see any kind of animal used here in the caricatures to substatiate what you just said. If you read the above blogs you can see that the caricatures that depict pigs and stuff like that were fabricated and not real ones. those pictures that you are talkng about were never there.Please try to reconcile withthat first. You need to verify the news you have heard or have been fed with.

  111. EnderEd says:

    1) Should South Africa, Western news outlets, etc. request from Islamdom an enumeration of forbidden images, words, ideas, concepts so there are no further incidents?

    2) Should Jews and Christians be encouraged to seek vengeance on violators of one of their Ten Commandments? “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth;” (Exo 20:4)

    3) Should the International Court of Justice turn a blind eye to those particular imams who perpetrated this disaster?

    I hope the common answer to these questions is obvious. Thanks for the pictures and discussion forum.

  112. curious says:

    Can someone supply the exact source of the “Muhammed can’t be depicted” injunction?

    I’ve read a few comments on other sites that the source is in the Hadith, but that some sects of Islam don’t adhere to the interpretation that is the justification for the outrage.

    I admit to my ignorance of Islamic tradition, and wonder if this is as important to Islam as, say, the 10 Commandments is to Christianity, or if it’s more on the level of “don’t eat meat on Fridays”.

  113. christian mahmud says:

    whAteVer says:
    “in muslim it is not right to draw the picture of Allah (the god) and also mohammed himself..Everyone should be aware of this..learn to respect other people.”
    Well, I don’t need nor care to be aware – and you should be tolerant, and respect my blissful, willful ignorance, instead of forcing “Everyone to be aware of this”. Nobody forces the Muslims to draw pictures of the two guys so that everyone might see what you Muslims are talking about – non-Muslims don’t interfere – and that’s respect. You protest and are offended because you don’t have the wisdom and respect of realizing and accepting that for others what you believe in doesn’t matter – so you want to interfere and kill the poor cartoonist. What if God doesn’t exist and the “God talk” of all the prophets from all the religions has just one real common denominator and explanation: schizoid talk. How immensely stupid this entire fracas is? And who deserves to be restrained?

  114. dove says:

    to endered and curious …
    There are no answers to your questions cause most of the flare up is all fabricated and Devout Muslims condemn them as we all do. The Imams who atually cooked up the whole thing must have achieved what they intended by now. They are to be blamed than anyone and people should voice for a common platform to bring out the truth about all these drawings.

  115. The Teacher says:

    I think we have a case of a large scale over-reacton.

    There are over 1 billion Islams in the world and probably more than half of those are un-educated in the globalized world. These people do not understand the western world and will just follow what their religous superiors tell them.

    If I would have to guess I would say that most of the riotors never saw the cartoon and if they did they probably do not understand the sarcasim that all cartoons protrait, hints the name cartoon.

    I think the Islamic world (for the most part) is stuck so far out of the 21st century that they act like a lost child. Children need to be taught and well if their actions continue, a lesson may need to be given.

    I have no problem with the faith and they can do as they please as long as they return the favor, which is something that seems to be difficult to do.

  116. visitor says:

    trying to make a point to the Muslims and not trying to degrade the NABI ??
    then why draw the nabi ?
    its true that i myself have not seen the nabi himself but that whats angered by not just draw the nabi … and plus … put a bomb on his head and so on …
    spoiling the image on how would we imagine our nabi to look like … see .. like you guys draw jesus … how would you guys know that jesus look like that ? and this could lead to miss interpretion …

    other relegion is not alowed in arab ? what are you talking about … there is ALOT of christians in arab right now ?

    and i respect other religions ….

  117. Peter says:

    I’m Danish and you got the “Dumb Muslim” dead wrong: it’s not a jibe suggesting that Muslime ares stupid. It’s a rather stingy criticism of the self-censorship requested by Muslims.

    The inscription on the boy’s sweater reads Fremtiden (The Future in Danish). Thus, the cartoon suggests that the future is that we (the Danes) will be lectured in arabic that Jyllands-posten is a bunch of provocateurs. That’s the stingy criticism.

    You should also notice that the request to the cartonists was rather broadly formulated asking them to depict Mohammed. So it’s a clever deviation from the task that the cartonist drawed a boy named Mohammed.

    PS. As for the lack of humor, it should be noted that the cartoons contains a number of subtle references to current Danish affairs. That makes them more funny in Danish.

  118. Saddened by all of this says:

    I am not a follower of Islam, but I can understand why many Muslims would be offended by those cartoons. Islam is a religion that more than a billion people believe in, and those beleifs should be respected no matter what faith one has or does not have. We non-Muslims should not judge the many, based on the actions of a few, no matter how vile those actions are. The civil rights movements in America, South Africa, and Zimbabwe would have never succeeded if that actions and attitudes of a small percentage of whites were really the way the masses felt. We should learn from our own recent lessons and not repeat the same mistakes..

    I think many non-muslims have a skewed view of the religion and do not understand that in Islamic countries there is no separation of church and state. That religious laws permeate almost every aspect of daily life in those countries. The fact that it is forbidden to depict their Phophet, in any way, should have been taken into account. Many say it’s perhaps one of the reasons why it is still the fastest growing religion in the world. Anybody can be Muslim and all are equal in Islam. Their Islamic laws do not apply to us, just as our constitutional articles and ammendments do not apply to them. The fact is that laws should be respected, state or secular.

    Also the words written in calligraphy on the turban-bomb, are one of the creeds of Islam. They translate loosely as “There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah”. It is this creed that is one of the 5 Pillars of Islam and the opening to their 5 daily prayer calls. So the cartoons are offensive on many fronts.

    Once when I was browsing thru the Archives of an old southern newspaper, I saw a cartoon of the Rev. Dr. Martin L. King, Jr. hanging from a rope and under him were the words “Free at last, Free at last”. Even though the cartoon is more than 40 years old at this point, when I saw it 15 yrs ago it hurt and angered me, not to the point I wanted to injure anyone, but nonetheless it was painful to see that supposedly educated people saw us as nothing and had no respect for one of the greatest leader of the 20th century. I wonder how many of you who so quickly espouse the 1st Amendment, would defend that cartoon as freedom of the press and of speech.

    Their Prophet was not only a symbol and a messenger for God, but he was a real man. He had the same faults and shortcomings as all of us have. He became a great leader and he changed the world with his message. Muslims love Muhammad, just as I love Martin and Malcolm and ton of other civil rights leaders who changed the world for me. Don’t be so quick to judge others as to how they should feel when we vilify one so loved by them

  119. Violet Socks says:

    Hi, Peter. Thanks for the Danish perspective.

    I’m Danish and you got the “Dumb Muslim’’ dead wrong: it’s not a jibe suggesting that Muslims are stupid. It’s a rather stingy criticism of the self-censorship requested by Muslims.

    The inscription on the boy’s sweater reads Fremtiden (The Future in Danish). Thus, the cartoon suggests that the future is that we (the Danes) will be lectured in arabic that Jyllands-posten is a bunch of provocateurs. That’s the stingy criticism.

    Yes, actually I got that (and I forgot to include the translation of the sweater inscription). It’s very similar to the criticism of fundamentalist Christians here in the U.S. and their idiotic politics. When we (liberals and secularists) complain about how stupid or dumb those Christians are, we don’t mean they are genetically impaired. Just that their policies are dumb.

    You should also notice that the request to the cartonists was rather broadly formulated asking them to depict Mohammed. So it’s a clever deviation from the task that the cartonist drawed a boy named Mohammed.

    I did notice that, and thought it was a nice workaround. Also liked the cartoonist who chose to illustrate the writer holding a stick figure of Mohammed!

    PS. As for the lack of humor, it should be noted that the cartoons contains a number of subtle references to current Danish affairs. That makes them more funny in Danish.

    That’s good to know!

  120. dove says:

    To Visitor,
    Well for your kind information no other religion can be openly practiced in saidi arabia and various other middle east countries. If you go online you can read various articles regarding this. The latest incident I can recall was the court case of certain missionaries been tried in court for conducting prayers in their house. Certain countries in the Middle East started accepting other religious practices only after western interference and prolonged diplomatic discussions and the increasing influence of the outside world. They had to accommodate people of other religions for their economy sake. The Middle East countries that have extended this freedom of religion have never volunteered but had to be choked out of them. But Saudi and certain other countries are still reluctant. Please read about what the taliban had made out of the Buddhist monasteries in Afghanistan and you will see who acted out of disrespect for so long. It would be great if you peruse through documents about the struggles minorities are going through in Indonesia. Please do not limit yourself to texts from your clerics but look around and try to see who is getting disrespected in various sermons delivered by imams in various Mosques
    all this time. The cartoons, as explained by 117. Peter above was merely a sarcastic way of addressing the demands of the Muslim imams on certain political issues and not targeted on the NABI. What do you have to say about the 55 cartoons displayed by the from Danish imams which in fact was only 12 cartoons. I hope you understand. There were only 12 cartoons and you can verify that anywhere. Where did the rest of the cartoons come from? The imams were fabricating those to get back at the Danish government for not meeting their demands. Now who is more responsible? Please think about all this and form a viewpoint on your own using logic. No one in the west hates Muslims. It’s just certain prejudiced viewpoints that are being criticized. No one knows for sure how Jesus looks like so none cares. Making a caricature of Jesus does not defame Him or His divinity. I would be demeaning to the image of Jesus if I thought so, cause how can a mere human who was created by God Himself constrain God in an image. I cannot expect Him to respect Jesus because I do. As I have not seen Jesus nor has he. So that picture that he is demeaning has nothing to do with the Jesus that I worship or revere.

    To Saddened by all of this
    I completely understand you point there. The only point people are trying to make is that those caricatures are not depicting Muhammad. It was only a way of addressing a political issue in Denmark that the Muslims there were not trying to resolve in a sensible manner. The other concern here is the disregard that certain factions of Islam show toward other religion and the ignorance of that fact by the Muslim world. If they were so concerned about respect for other religions why not strive hard to achieve that in the Muslim ruled countries. Various sermons in the Islamic world have been pretty volatile and derogatory in content but that has never stopped. Everyone respects sentiments but when that’s one sided its not Humane or tenable to any extend.

  121. Violet Socks says:

    Saddened By This — I appreciate your tone, I really do. But I have to say that the references to Dr. King and to South Africa would be a little less jarring if you weren’t defending a religio-political system that effectively enslaves half its members. And the fact that many Muslim women have been brainwashed into believing in their own inferiority doesn’t make it any better.

  122. kats says:

    WHY DO YOU ONLY COMPARE THE PROPHET MOHAMED WITH JESUS??? THIS ISN’T A CHRISTIAN -MUSLIM WAR!!! THE PROPHET COULD HAVE COMPARED WITH MOSES OR BUDDHA! Concerning the jesus cartoons, If christians want to ridiculise their JESUS, They are free to but please leave OUR PROPHET AWAY FROM THEIR SHIT! COZ the reply can be fatal

  123. neal says:

    To Christian Mahmud, I only meant that religion is the basis for laws all over the world, not that laws start with or for that matter should ever start with “God says…” You yourself stated how Islam is the basis for law in many middle eastern countries. Another example is “Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not commit murder.”, and so on. Here’s another one. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.” Ok, so it’s not law, but it is the Declaration of Independence, which led to the US becoming a nation of its own.

    To visitor, I have often voiced my opinion when I have felt my religion was being insulted or demeaned. However, I did not start burning buildings and begin riots. I don’t know where you live but in the US part of the deal that comes with living in a free society is freedom of expression.

  124. Alon Levy says:

    It’s good practice for you to learn to distinguish Christians and atheists.

  125. Alon Levy says:

    To Christian Mahmud, I only meant that religion is the basis for laws all over the world, not that laws start with or for that matter should ever start with “God says…”

    That’s still wrong.

    Another example is “Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not commit murder.”, and so on.

    These derive from Hammurabi’s code.

    Here’s another one. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.” Ok, so it’s not law, but it is the Declaration of Independence, which led to the US becoming a nation of its own.

    Jefferson’s “creator” is a deist prime mover rather than a personal god. Secularism – not that the word existed at the time – was one of Jefferson’s few consistent positions.

  126. neal says:

    To Alon Levy, even Hammurabi claimed to have gotten his laws from a god. As to secularism, as in sepeartion of church and state, means that there should not be a specific religion endorsed by the government. Quite unlike those in Muslim countries.

  127. chiny says:

    it’s appalling that our moslem brothers take to violence as a means of expressing their emotions over some lousy drawings.I wonder if Mohammed really advocated voilence, did he ever say his followers should kill? with the series of suicide bomb attack, remember 9 11 and the london bombingand others .It’s a pity that a particular religion would be known for violence, only violence.In every part of the world, muslims are known for violence. Recently, a muslim speaker in Kano State Nigeria,led his fellow muslim brothers to burn the danish and norwegian flags calling for ban on the sale of all scandinavian products, and cancelling contracts awarded to Danish companies.What a myopic way of expressing distaste over some lousy cartoon. A sure way to be defeated is if u can be predicted and the moslems have shown that they can be predicted. Someone is busy pulling the puppet string and the reacting moslems are the puppets being pulled.
    This is disgusting!!!!

  128. Mausgru Sacraum says:

    Peter:

    You refer to a color of local Danish backdrop for the cartoons. Seems like that is an important part of the story that is not being discussed. Please fill us all in. We, in the U.S. have no idea of what goes on in Denmark on a daily basis.

  129. Steve3742 says:

    OK, I’m going to add a comment

    Firstly, offence is (obviously) in the eye of the offended. We may not see anything too offensive in these cartoons, but we’re not Muslims. They do, and we’ll have to take their word for it or convert (so as to see their point of view.) The point is, the cartoons are offensive to Muslims, whether we can see it or not.

    Secondly, what do we do about this? Given free speech, people should say what they want to – but are there boundaries? Two example: 1) A Muslim protesting against the cartoons in London was wearing fake suicide bomber gear (only seven months after 50 people were killed in London by real suicide bombers.) That’s bad taste, to say the least but there were calls for his arrest (and eventually, on government orders, he was arrested.) Doesn’t he have the same right of free speech, free expression, that we’re according to the Danish Cartoonists? He seems to have been aware of this, says this was why he wore the gear, to provoke the same sense of outrage amongst non-Muslims as Muslims feel about the cartoons. Not being a Muslim, I’ll have to take his word for it. So, how many of those who defended the cartoonists’ freedom of speech feel like defending his?

    2) An Iranian magazine is commissioning cartoons lampooning the Holocaust. Who here is going to defend their right of free speech? The magazine has drawn deliberate paralells, saying that if the West believes in free speech then the West should defend its right to commission and print these cartoons. So it’s a deliberate challenge. Anyone feeling like answering it? Again, we’ll have to take their word about how Holocaust cartoons provoke a similar sense of outrage amongst non-Muslims as the Mohammed cartoons do amongst Muslims.

    In all of these, I do come down on the side of free speech. The cartoonists right to print should be defended, both for Mohammed and the Holocaust. And the man with the fake suicide bomber gear shouldn’t have been arrested. Also, in all of these, I would criticise the actions of the protagonists – in all the cases, they’ve deliberately set out to offend people and whereas they have the right to do that, they don’t have the right to do it without criticism. The Danish government might have saved us all a lot of trouble of if, when this all started, it had met with Muslim leaders and said this, expressed regret at the offence but also said it couldn’t, and wouldn’t, deny free speech to it’s newspapers. That would have satisfied all but the most extremist of groups, and we’d not be in this mess.

  130. Anonymous says:

    IN ISLAM, WE ACCEPT ALL PROPHETS..
    IN ISLAM, WE BELIEVE IN ALL PROPHETS..
    IN ISLAM, WE RESPECT ALL PROPHETS..

    AND THIS RESPECT AVOIDS US FROM ACCEPTING THEM LIKE ANY OF US. IT IS TRUE, THE PROPHETS LIVED THEIR LIVES AS HUMANBEINGS LIKE US. BUT WE MUST ALWAYS REMEMBER THEIR DIFFERENCES AND SPECIALTIES.

    THEY WERE CHOSEN AND CHARGED FOR A HOLY DUTY BY ALLAH (GOD). THEY EACH COMPLETED OWN DUTY, TEACHING THE HUMANBEINGS THEIR CREATOR AND SHOWING THEM THE RIGHT WAY TO LIVE IN THE WORLD.

    IN ISLAM OUR RESPECT TO THEIR SPIRITS, AVOIDS US FROM FIGURIZING ANY OF THE PROPHETS.. IT IS AN UGLY BEHAVIOUR TO FIGURIZE ANY OF THE PROPHETS, NOT ONLY HZ. MUHAMMED BUT ALL OTHERS, AS WELL..

    THIS MEANS NOT ONLY CARTOONS OF HZ. MUHAMMED BUT ALSO CARTOONS OF HZ. ISA (JESUS) ARE WRONG FOR US AND WE BELIEVE THAT SUCH THINGS HURT THE SPIRITUALITY OF THE PROPHETS.

    I DO NOT KNOW IF CHRISTIAN PEOPLE WOULD BE HURT IF THEY SAW THEIR PROPHET DRAWEN LIKE A MONSTER(!!!) WHO HAS A “BOMB” ON HIS HEAD?

    BUT I AM REALLY BEING HURT TO SEE THAT
    THEY HAVE NO RESPECT TO MUSLIMS’ PROPHET.
    DESPITE MUSLIMS HAVE MORE RESPECT THAN THEY HAVE TO HZ. ISA (JESUS)?!!!

  131. eric arjay says:

    why um feel so bad about this topic,when we are living in yr 2006 to the extent of burning danish embassy.pls um,when taliban destroying the buddha statue in afghan no so bad protest by
    ww buddhist because we are more matured and tolerable.we only love and care for peaceful & happy living.pls look at the picture and see is there any part very funny about this cartoon.

  132. Alon Levy says:

    Doesn’t he have the same right of free speech, free expression, that we’re according to the Danish Cartoonists? He seems to have been aware of this, says this was why he wore the gear, to provoke the same sense of outrage amongst non-Muslims as Muslims feel about the cartoons. Not being a Muslim, I’ll have to take his word for it. So, how many of those who defended the cartoonists’ freedom of speech feel like defending his?

    At least one.

  133. Mills says:

    Your comparisons are sound, in my opinion. There have been just as many conceivably offensive cartoons about Jesus (too bad the Danish cartoons aren’t as funny though). However, the real issue seems to be that Muslims do not permit the production of any image of Muhammed, period. So, the comparison is actually moot. Since that is the case, I can see how many Nuslims may find the cartoons offensive. Yet, there is no law against being disrespectful, or my entire generation would be in prison. Hell, I find most everything Bush does disrespectful and no one is rioting in our streets over him. Unfortunately!

    The real problem I have with this whole situation is the assumption by many Muslims (by no means all) that non-believers should abide by their rules. Only your believers have to believe in and follow your rules. I’m sorry (well, actually I’m not), but I don’t belive in Muhammed, or Jesus for that matter, so I do not have to honor either of them. I do not have any problem with drawing, mocking or flat-out criticizing Muhammed, Islam, Jesus, Christianity, Judaism, or any of the other large religions which attempt to control the rest of the world. When are people going to realize that most of the war, death, and suffering in the world is caused by people who claim to be doing it all in the name of a religion whose basic laws they are violating in the first place.

    Both the Quran and the Bible tell its respective believers to show love and compassion toward others, to respect women, and NOT to kill fellow humans. Yet both Christians and Muslim violate these commands from their gods everyday and still sit around self-righteously condemning secularists for practising their legal right of freedom of speech and expression. We westerners need to keep religion out of our legal systems, and encourage the religious to practice what they preach, i.e. PEACE!

    Part of the press’ job is to push the envelope, to keep us honest. And quite frankly, the American press has been making a pretty poor showing in this respect for years now. If we start censoring the media, and expecting it to water down expression in favor of political correctness we are lost already.

    Now, maybe the Danish paper could have been more sensitive considering the unfair, one-sided representations of Islam that the West has perpetrated in recent years due to our own ignorance, arrogance and greed, but they aren’t required to. I’m pretty tired of the anti-Muslim propaganda slant in America as well. However, I don’t think censorship or acquiesance to religious self-interest is the answer.

    Get over yourselves already!!!

  134. jed says:

    Thank god its only 7 virgins that are up for grabs for the suicide bombers, think what it would be like if they were offered high class prostitutes as a reward.
    Personaly i think these muslim guys need to lighten up a bit, get out more and have a few beers, maybe get laid now and again and take up a robust healthy sport like football.

  135. neal says:

    To Steve 3472, while I will not deny anyone’s right to protest, the guy with the bomber’s vest shouyld have picked a different way to voice his. Whhat if he had started the day with it simply being a fake, gained everyone’s accecptance of it, then at the end of the day, when no one was watching switched it for a real one?

    To Anonymous, #130, while I am positive there are plenty of moderate muslims who are tolerant of all “prophets”, The newspapers inthe middle east seam not to be so. I have seen cartoons depicting, in a very negative way, both God (not Allah) and Jesus.

    To Mills, you speak of the anti-muslims propaganda slant in America. I ask you about the anti-christian propaganda slant in the middle east. And how about the anti-jew, the anti-western as well?

  136. Nauj C Zitro says:

    Hey Reza, what’s this? I’m too old to learn new tricks, I do not need your psychology; I have family members in any subject study matter branch! I do not need your make believe smart concerns about my life, just do your own evaluation about yourself and believe in nature, without preaching martyr hood and you’ll be just fin in this beautiful world! May your Allah keep you away from me, don’t be another Muslim hypocrite. Life is so precious that if those people do not need their organs, well, this world region area should have the best organ donor resources, instead of blowing themselves out into wasted human pieces! We’re in desperate need of human organs all over the world, Hey Reza have your organ donor bank in that region of the world and your people will be setup very well in life!

  137. Willow says:

    I can just see a world war starting over this. This is IDIOTIC!

    It’s idiotic to have a so-called religion of peace (Islam) continue to lash out in violence over every single thing that offends them. Sure, if you’re a muslim, you might be offended by cartoons of Mohammed, but don’t make things worse! Damn, use some common sense. Islam is not the Danish people’s religion. Let them draw all the flippin’ cartoons they want. In fact, muslims can draw pictures of Jesus sodomizing Satan for all I care. Go ahead. I don’t care. My die-hard fundamental Christian mother would care but she sure as hell won’t riot about it.

    Yes, it might not be illegal or or against law to publish pictures of Jesus or God in the Christian religion. But it’s surely one of the 10 commandments to not take the lord’s name in vain and heck, there has been a lot worse in the United States, tons of “blasphemous” pictures of Jesus and cartoons (South Park, for one), the Lord’s name being taken in vain every single day. Do we go and kill and riot over this? No. There are some nutty Christians too but they don’t do to the extremes that the muslims do.

    I have been tolerant and accepting for a long time of religions and have even visited our neighborhood mosque but this is RIDICULOUS. No wonder the rest of the world has a bad taste in their mouth over the Muslim world.

  138. Nauj C Zitro says:

    I invite anybody that wants to be out of that very hostile miserable region of the world to leave and come to Bolivia – Santa Cruz De La Sierra; Where you’re free to say anything, but please keep your fanatic Taliban, Muslim or Mohammed religious believes where you’re coming from! We’re born and raised Catholics here, but if I became an atheist, that’s my problem. There’s plenty of free space here for everybody 1,098.581 Sq Km and only 9 million people, some have gone up north to work in The world’s Life Great University, the USA and many like myself have come back to live a beautiful and peaceful life after making enough moolah to live well. But don’t forget to bring your piggy bank here, begging is only allowed for the locals. My house has a market value of 57k American Dollars with 4 bathrooms and 6 bedrooms built on a 400 sq mts of land.

  139. Nauj C Zitro says:

    Thank you eric arjay, I’ve read your wise concerns and I’ve really liked them!. This Universe needs people with the right chemical balance. Don’t you think? See you.

  140. Brother Jerry says:

    Scanning down throught he posts there is a couple of things that I notice that have wrung as an inconsistancy.

    Things I see
    1) According to Koran, and confirmed by a couple of Muslims here, it is wrong to depict an image of Mohammed. Reasoning being to prevent idolization.
    2)Mohammed was a man, a prophet, and not Allah, or any other diety type.
    3)In Islam, Jesus was also a prophet
    Some conclusions
    1)In Islam it is wrong to depict images of phophets to prevent idolization, thus it should also enrage the Muslims to see the images of Jesus.
    2)If it does not then Mohammed is already being idolized because he is being raised up higher than any other prophet, and being elevated to a status that is almost godlike.

    I am glad that God also permits us to think, and His Word does truly teach equality among people. Jesus was persecuted not only on pretense of blaspheme but also because he preached and showed love to all people and not just a select group. God (even Allah) created all people. And even in the Koran it is Allah’s wish for all to live in peace and worship Allah. But yet the Koran also degrades people such as Jews and Christians.

    I admit I have not read the entire Koran yet. I quit when I ran across to many logical inconsistancies. “Speak of love…Hate Jews and Christians”. So I quit.

    May a true peace be upon you
    Brother Jerry

  141. kcidlj says:

    fuck all the muslims

  142. Willow says:

    “Aggression against life and property can only damage the image of a peaceful Islam,” said the statement released by Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the EU chief Javier Solana.

    This is in the news, regarding the Mohammed cartoon. Apparently, Muslims are peaceful people according to this man. If that’s true, Muslims need to try a hell of a lot harder. It’s getting harder and harder every day to not give in to the “Muslims are violent” stereotype.

  143. james says:

    Steve 3742 says:
    “A Muslim protesting against the cartoons in London was wearing fake suicide bomber gear (only seven months after 50 people were killed in London by real suicide bombers.) That’s bad taste, to say the least but there were calls for his arrest (and eventually, on government orders, he was arrested.) Doesn’t he have the same right of free speech, free expression, that we’re according to the Danish Cartoonists?”

    Actually, the man wearing the suicide bomber gear was a convicted drug dealer out on parole. He was arrested and returned to prison as per the conditions of his parole, for inciting murder. And in Britain, it isn’t the government that controls this, it is the court system and the probation service.

  144. asif says:

    dear cartoon makers,
    i thought that europe have PASSED THEIR DARK AGES ERA & has turned into decent & civilized humans.but after seeing these horrific images about the GREAT HUMANS of the world i have changed my opininon.
    this is really a work of some ILLETERATE & NON-SENSE PEOPLE who don’t realise the dignity of humans.
    it is to understand that if any body depicts the cartoon of the father or mother of the so called editor of this news paper,what will be his feelings;;;
    we should learn to respect all humans & specially the HEROES of mankind.
    MAY GOD BLESS US ALL

  145. deen , faith says:

    there is no respect with in these images. why make fun of any Prophets. For they are the one who gave our way of life. its worng to draw an image of any prophets in islam no matter wot any one else may thin it will bring anger and hate. there have showed us our faith. we should have respect for them and not shame them.

  146. Nauj C Zitro says:

    Life is so precious that if those people do not need their organs, well, this world region area should have the best organ donor resources, instead of blowing themselves out into wasted human pieces! We’re in desperate need of human organs all over the world, Please setup your organ donor bank in that region of the world and these people financially will be setup very well in life!

  147. Willow says:

    If someone depicted my god, children, mother, father, etc in an offensive cartoon. Sure, I’ll be upset. But I know better and have enough sense not to react violently.

    THINK, PEOPLE, THINK. Are you helping the muslim religion by rioting? NO. It doesn’t matter if muslims can justify the rioting as doing it for their religion. It doesn’t matter. WHY? Because this behavior will still ruin any kind of respect the world has left for Islam. If you are a religion of peace, be peacable. THE END.

  148. lavi says:

    Thank you for printing all of the cartoons, I’ve been wondering what the big deal is.

    Apparently, it’s all about the ability to laugh at yourself (although only the ‘out of virgins’ one is funny).

    Sorry kids, but you guys wanted to move to the ‘big table’ so you’ll just have to act like adults.

    Note:
    Adults do not throw tantrums because someone is “picking on meeeeee,” nor do they pick fights because someone laid a “Yo mamma” joke on em’.

  149. Nauj C Zitro says:

    The Western world will be afraid of this region for days to come and they’ll be just hated by everybody that loves hi/her life! Isn’t it supposed to be the opposite way civilization’s teaching must come from the ancient wise civilization? Mr. Ventura a USA Navy Seal and Minnesota Governor once said, “Religions are for weak people”. People are fighting over an image concept; why people have to believe in something invisible, omnipotent and nonexistent to run their lives; It’s like believing that extra terrestrial figures really are the school and college teachers. Hey, somebody had to test this side of the story and this volatile region of the world! I see they could not take it! Where is that past and smart civilization we came from? We’re creating our own Armageddon.

  150. Violet Socks says:

    Steve3742:

    I have no hesitation about endorsing free speech in both the cases you mentioned.

    Re the fake suicide bomber: I don’t know British law, but in the U.S. the issue there wouldn’t be just speech; what the guy did is more like waving around an unloaded gun in a crowd. So there may be a misdemeanor entirely apart from his self-expression.

    Re the Iranian papers: If a U.S. paper started publishing anti-Semitic cartoons, of course I and many others would be offended. The blog world would be up in arms! But I would never call for such cartoons to be illegal. You know the adage: the remedy for bad speech is more speech.

  151. Marky says:

    It would be very interesting to know if the people here who are tarring all races/creeds/religions with the same brush have actually been to predominently Muslim or Jewish or Christian countries.

    As soon as I began travelling the world, I quickly realised that my one-eyed stereotypes of different countries were mostly wrong, and that underneath, people are often very similar nature all over the world regardless of upbringing.
    Meeting new cultures starts with
    1) caution (even fear) of strangers (often with misunderstandings). This leads on to a
    2) curiosity about differences, inturn leading to
    3) a better understanding, that finally _may_ progress towards
    4) acceptance of differences.
    It is obvious that we are still stuck at step 1.
    The reaction of the muslim world has had one benefit (proven by everyone’s interest in this blog) and that is at least it has taught many of us about the sensitivities of the Muslim world. In turn we can only hope that many Muslims recognise that westerners are simply ignorant of their customs, and help us all move to stage 2. In doing so, the cartoons will have accomplished a little good. Or is this misguided?

    Personally, Im off to Egypt and Jordan (during Easter of all times) for 3 1/2 weeks, to learn and understand more.

  152. arnie says:

    All I can conclude of this whole matter is that it seems Christianity is a religion of tolerance and Islam of intolerance?

  153. Violet Socks says:

    Arnie, that would be the wrong conclusion. See this comment and this comment.

  154. Peter Piper says:

    the muslims need to grow up, they’ve all got chips on their shoulders and cant wait for something like this to come about, so that they can feel sorry for themselves, and recruit others into islam, then get them to blow stuff up.
    ACT YOUR AGE, NOT YOUR NOSE SIZE

  155. John C... :o) says:

    Are we all missing the point, we all believe in one God, is it not the same God? Are we now making those who prophesized more important then the God they are telling us about? Isn’t that in it’s self a form of idolatry? We have made Mohamed and Jesus above God, after all they are only the messengers. It’s the word that is important,not the speaker…

  156. Tom says:

    Finally, I get to see the cartoon that’s causing a worldwide uprising of muslims to call for the death’s of the Danish artist(s) involved. I would say it was refreshing for me to hear them not calling fo the death of America, but I just watched a group of muslims on CNN burning BOTH the American and Danish flags, calling for both our deaths. There is something seriously wrong here. I just dont’ understand how these people can protest these cartoons which depict and opinion, generally of the artist or those around the artist, of the subject being depicted. In this case, I see Mohammad walking a camel through the desert. I don’t understand, what in the hell is wrong with that? Also I see Mohammed with a dagger looking rather menacing with two woman behind him. Well, if hundreds of thousands of people who worship this person hadn’t taken to the streets and starting burning, pillaging, and rioting over a cartoon, I would have said, “Hey that’s not right.” Unfortunately it seems to me the artist’s opinion may be dead on.

  157. bostongraf says:

    To John C.

    No, we do not all believe in god. Some specifically believe that there is no god. And to us, freedoms and laws are the end all be all. While I am (try to be) a nice person, and not offend others, I must admit that I do not give a rat’s butt about prophets, disciples, and gods.

    So…as far as being polite, these cartoons are very rude and impolite.

    But as far as law and freedom, there is no question that whoever drew them had every right. Whoever published them had every right.

    And whoever reads them has every right to piss and moan as much as they want about how they feel about them!

    Just don’t break any laws while you’re doing it…

  158. dove says:

    I still do not understand why none of the people who stood against the right of the cartoonist are not openly criticizing the disregard for other religions posed in the ARAB world. If these so called Isalm value upholders can’t tame or reason with those that they claim as brothers ,how then can the people of the west that stand for liberalism control the press or a cartoonist ? Its always good to indulge in a self retrospection to see what each of us stand for. Demanding respect for sentiments is fine but that should be self applicable too. I would appreciate if the Muslim brothers here ,who have voiced their concerns over those caricatures , would rise up and challenge all the demeaning speeches and intolerance to other religion in ARab countries before they point fingers at the WEST. Always try to figure out who has been doing the degrading for so long. Why is it that no one is talking about the IMAms who fabricated the caricatures other than the 12 shown in this forum. So if they have fabricated it then who has defamed ISLAM more now? The imams have realized that the world will know soon and that is the reason why they are expediting a compromise spree with the DAnish Govt. I implore with the muslim brothers to give up prejudice and give logic and reason a chance. The pictures were only making a political statement and not a religious one. The same cartoonist in the past has made cartoons that tease Jewish and Christian traditions which are equally provocative.But why is it that those communities keep quite and not the Muslim community? Those are the ways of the Danish people and no one can force anything on them.we need to respect their belief in freedom of speech too because that is what they believe in.

  159. Reza says:

    Arabs and other Muslims do not disregard Judaism or Christianity, as per your statement. They have strong views against Zionism and other POLITICAL groups. Never will you see an innocent picture of Moses or Jesus in any Muslim editorial or publication. So much as to mock them. I spent 5 hours yesterday on the web to find something, I browsed every book on Islam i could find before i decided to post this.

    On the next note: over one million muslims have protested peacefully over the past few days, but the media has focused on less than a thousand indviduals who are causing all this damage. if the one million people were violent, i’m pretty sure there would have been much more death and destruction. But all of your comments are directed towards “Muslims” which include the peaceful protestors. Just for your info thats 1/10 of one percent of the protestors. Now: To judge an entire religion on the actions of again: 1/10 of one percent of the protestors hmmmmm, I can recall, not to long ago, a riot in LA, now did other countries come and say all Californians or even go farther to say all Americans are thieves and looters? my point is always know the facts before you judge. By the way the media only gives you 20% of the facts. The other 80% is not news worthy.

  160. Moonie says:

    To Nauj C Zitro:
    You are misquoting and misrepresenting. Bolivia is not a land of “Free Speech”. While Santa Cruz enjoys some degree of departmental wealth (thank you drug lords) you are forgetting the many who have been incarcerated, tortured, vanished, and murdered for speaking up against Bolivian politicians.
    The blatantly corrupt police force throughout the country does not respect freedom of speech either. With their bravado attitude of shoot first, shoot again, shoot some more, and THEN ask questions, hardly provides a base for free speech. So, no, “scream what ever you want”, not quite true. This censorship increases with the poorer you are, and the smaller your city.
    Look at the impoverished cities of Oruro, Potosi, all of Pando, Tarija and parts of Beni. The lack of outside influence keeps the populous tamed and docile. Catholicism is all they know. They don’t know better, because the church has that much influence over the religious majority in Bolivia.
    So to scream out “Kill the Muslims” doesn’t make anybody any better than the radical misguided, uninformed, Muslims rioting at the moment. Let’s not forget that these few rioting, murdering Muslims are misrepresenting a whole; as you are misrepresenting your American-Bolivian brethren. Bolivians border the same behavior as the rioting Muslims when they do not get their way from government or society. Have you forgotten the daily riots, the persecution of those who have by those who don’t? To sit back in your big house in Equipetrol and point your finger to the East criticizing takes a bit of hypocrisy. Don’t you think? Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones at others my cambita friend.

    Furthermore; Minnesota Gov. Ventura did no say “Religion is for weak people”, he said, “Religion is a crutch for the weak minded”. Very different message. Ever notice how the more uneducated a population, the more fanatical, and easier to manipulate. Just observe the demographic that voted in the new Bolivian president, Evo Morales.

    I thank everyday most of us live in a society where we can exercise the right to express our thoughts and emotions. But this right is not to be taken lightly. While one can blurt out whatever she/he thinks it usually is in the speakers’ best interest to choose the appropriate words in the appropriate venue.

    All religious beliefs aside, it is humanly incomprehensible to believe anything can be solved by violence. Do rioting Muslims even understand the teachings of Mohammed? He might have been a great prophet, but boy, one lousy communicator.

  161. dove says:

    To REza,
    I agree completely to what you are saying but you completely missed my point. My stand is definitely pro sentiments and for the real followers who practice Islam properly and I greatly appreciate the Islamic people who voiced their protests peacefully and with regard to the Law of the land. I was only addressing the IGNORANCE of the gravity of disregard that has been going on in Arab nations for so long toward other religions. Why so much ado over this when a greater wrong is still perpetrated in those Arab countries? Why is there no move from the brothers of Islam that have been hurt by these sentiments by these caricatures, to campaign for free worship for other religions in countries like Saudi and neighboring places. Isn’t destroying religious documents and lynching people for professing their faith disregard for their religion?? All the countries in the middle east that have permitted freedom of worship have done that only after it came under prolonged political and economic constraints. They had to be persuaded before they ever agreed for the sake of their economy and for the fact that people of various religions have contributed much to their economy. Why is that not coming out voluntarily if there is respect for other religions? There have been various protests in India and other countries of the world about inflammatory speeches delivered by Imams about other religions and their Gods. Major protests and events have revolved around all this in various parts of the world. The destruction of Babari Majid was provoked only because that Mosque was build after the destruction of a temple, which is historically true. Destruction of a temple is considered sacrilegious to the Hindus and if you look at history various Churches and Mosques have been established on land that hosted a temple before in India. Do you see the Hindus all over the world come out on streets demanding the restoration of these temples? Does it make sense to shed tears and hatred over history? There is peace there only because the Hindus are tolerant but things are changing now in India because of various other factors like these protests, which will inspire similar sentiments. That is the only point that no one wants to address. What about the fabricated cartoons? Why is there no uproar over that? Who is the real culprit? Why is there no move from the Islamic organizations to bring out the truth and why is there no understanding that if people were to react whenever their sentiments are hurt there will be no end to this hatred campaign. It is only because of the tolerance by people of other religion that Islam is not under attack. See religious rules can only apply to ones that practice and preach it .you cannot enforce it on anyone else. The beef that you eat is sacrilegious to Hindus as it is their God. How would you feel if someone in the other part of the world were to do that to what you worship? You are killing and eating their God. How many protests do you see on all this everyday? It is the case with various 10 commandments in the Bible and other religious texts too. It is most sacrilegious to Christians to marry twice or divorce. Does that mean the Christians should rise up and protest anytime that is violated? Like the Islamic world believes in polygamy so does the Danish people in freedom of speech. You cannot impose your faith on the Danish nor can any Christian impose his rules on any Muslim. It is all about a broader perspective to understand others viewpoints and recognize ones own folly while taking a stand.

  162. Amina Parwaiz says:

    Well, religion is sacred to all wether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslims or any other religion. Any one who does something like this to see people’s reaction has got to have some issues of their own. It’s like stabbing someone and then watch if they bleed or not. If we in this world want to live peacefully we have to respect each other’s religion, views and beliefs. For muslims just comming up with an image of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is very ill-humored. Furthermore, as some of the people here know the context of Islam , majority of the people do not for them to find humor in these images is not realistic, It could become the real image of Islam for these people. And that’s where the problem starts. For us having such images of Jesus are equally unrespectfull and you won’t find any prominent Islamic newspaper with such images of Jesus. So folks let there be peace and quit making fun of each other. We all have to share this world together and things are already pretty messed up. Thanx.

  163. Violet Socks says:

    What dove is asking and which no one has answered is:

    Why should Islamic law apply in the nation of Denmark?

  164. dove says:

    period. Thanx Violet Socks

  165. Dr Marco says:

    Why a piece of nasty humor becomes suddenly a diplomatic incident with riots and deaths? This is orchestrated by Western-haters to widen the present rift between the West and Islam. I suggest Muslims not to listen to the leaders who promote hate and to criticize the cartoons in a civilized way.

  166. Nauj C Zitro says:

    Hey Moonie, you’re missing the point here and you’re having this matter becoming personal. “Read about coming back to live in SC” You’re also having problems with your ego, since the natives are having their good time now, so they believe and this probably will be a teaching to the crooks that form more governments than years of independence, here just to get the wealth out of the country and probably live like yourself afraid to come back since you will always be a displaced person, like the Patino family or the Sanchez de Lozada; There’s nothing more interesting than to be governed by most of the illiterate former presidents. No intellectual formed any type of government before because to be into politics was for “charlatans”; The native’s evolution was limited to the bringing up water thru the mounting side vegetation environment change, so they have done no improvement in society, nothing evolved nor products invented for the society wellbeing so there you are analyzing stupid bureaucracies about low life individual taking over the country’s wealth. About your point about drug lords and so on, your must remember the Bush family or the Kenedy family how they made their fortune in the USA, is that the right way for you? Or the Thumb law of the USA in the 18th century. Is that your type of evolution or the one you believe in? You must be analyzing people that came to settle earth from the Moon! Drugs have always being part of our lives, Mrs. Nancy Regan speech in the late ’70 about American drug addiction, “look it up in the internet”. Drug lords are all over the world for your information if you’re so narrow minded and is the second best known business after prostitution and because of that am I stereotyping a country? You’re completely wrong. So is Cocacola illegal for you? Please try to get the cocaine import from Bolivia by the Cocacola Co. from the Bolivian Embassy in New York and they will probably will give it to you just by the asking; Don’t try to do psychology 100 on me or play sainthood. I’m just taking this matter against this Muslim religion and not against you. I was just thinking about traveling to that volatile region a long time ago but I’d just stick to traveling from south to north and I thought that coming to Bolivia was an adventure! About poor people? Don’t get me wrong, they’re plenty over in Georgia, USA and I still see donated clothes here coming from our Great USA. So life is “Ironic” and it’ll never change!

  167. confused says:

    It is very unfortunate that Muslims are being portrayed as violent. It is more unfortunate that some are responding to this portrayal with violence.
    To those who are not responding with violence, I have the utmost respect for you. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to be Muslim in a western society. I suppose it would be just as hard for you as it would for me to live in a Muslim society. I do not think the two societies can get along peacefully unless many feelings are left unsaid. This is sad indeed.

  168. katie says:

    violet socks, just read your question…..

    excuse caps… don’t know how to make italics…

    q: why is jesus on a bomb an obvious parody?
    a: because the right wing christians coined the phrase “what would jesus do” sold lots of bracelets, shoelaces, and bookmarks with WWJD on them… and the bomb says “What would Jesus Bomb.” It’s a parody of the very commercial phrase of the rightest wing Christians in the US. The Bible doesn’t say WWJD – it’s the right wingers or whoever made up that phrase that are being MOCKED, not Jesus.

    same point with the two other cartoon examples that specifically point to others – even gives them names – “Armchair Theologian,” “All American Church of the Righteous Right” and “Republican….” standing in front of the White House – obviously alluding to the Current Administration. These cartoons display these particular groups’ view of Jesus and in doing so mock the group, not Jesus himself.

    None of the Mohammad cartoons make fun of PEOPLE who misinterpret Mohammad…. that’s what the Christian cartoons I cite do. They depict Mohammed doing those things….

    Why is it scary to put a picture of Mohammed with a bomb? Because it plays on the fears of the West. Sure, there are some Muslims who see that as a poignant depiction of how the PLO sees Mohammed, and think that’s sad or ridiculous. But the cartoonist doesn’t point to who is doing the viewing. AND, the fact is, Western people don’t know much about Mohammed at ALL. They don’t know the teachings of peace in Islam. As one person pointed out, Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet. They know quite a bit about the life of Jesus and consider him the one that brought “the ethic of unconditional love” to the world.

    Most Western people I know (and Americans) don’t know one saying of the Prophet Mohammed, one story of his life, when he was born, what he brought to Islam…. etc. So depicting him as with sword, bomb, etc. is perceived as more damaging.

    Last Temptation of Christ – yeah, in the movie, Christ was depicted as having sex with Mary Magdalena before he died, which is not represented in the Bible. There’s a bunch of other sins Christ commits in the Last Temptation, which is like the expose of what was not written in the Bible. Of course the director said, “I’m not saying he DID have sex with Mary Magdalena, just what if he did? So I showed…” So lots of Christians felt, that the movie portrayed his life incorrectly, because it showed instances where Jesus’ actions would have been hypocritical.

    I don’t know if you remember when the movie came out… but there were protests all over the U.S. Protestors for weeks with pickets in front of movie theatres saying “This movie wrongly portrays Jesus! He was not a sinner!” The most oft equated artwork in the Muslim world is Rushdie’s book depicting Mohammed doing hypocritical things.

    The Christian cartoon you show that comes closest is, “Jesus did it for the chicks” …

    As for the comment that Islam is a religion that enslaves half its population, I don’t know how you measure that, but I can tell you women everywhere are oppressed – you should spend some time with some strong women Muslimas…

    Thanks for the chat, the board, the posts!

  169. Violet Socks says:

    katie, re the cartoons: You’re making the same argument about context that Paul over in the comments at pharyngula has made. I understand the point, I’m just still not sure I agree. When I saw the cartoons, I automatically thought the violent ones were a comment on the behavior of modern Muslims, not on Mohammed. Mohammed is a mystery — we know nothing about him. It seems that some people have interpreted the cartoons as I did and some people have interpreted them as you did.

    (That said, I think these cartoons have stirred up so much controversy not because they are so offensive in themselves, but because demogogues and possibly the Saudi government have used them inflame the faithful.)

    As for Last Temptation, I do remember the film and the controversy, but I don’t remember Jesus being depicted as hypocritical, exactly. I just remember the fundies being freaked out about Jesus having sex.

    Agreed that women are oppressed everywhere. But don’t you think in some places the oppression is worse than in others?

  170. Joyce L stillman says:

    I belong to a special religion called ‘Joyism.” One of its tenets is that it is blasphemy to reply to or about anything said or written by its founder, me. LOL Whaddya gonna do about that?
    What follows are some comments by the founder.
    War games- 1971 2006
    We are all soft, vulnerable creations of our universe. We are our universe thinking about itself. We have the divine gifts of humor, beauty, adoration, love, The universe is itself divine; it is our mother and father, our home and our heaven. We are made of it, in even the tiniest of ways.

    Sometimes our mother frightens us, or causes us pain. Our father scolds us, reprimands us for slights we aim at him, or each other. Sometimes we die… and return to our most usual form, which is not organized into a thinking conscious animal, but rather scattered throughout our home, traveling through many different forms, spaces, eons, light-years, planets, suns, music and light. But for a very brief moment, and probably only one moment, we are conscious. We are our universe; we are our mother and father. We are the vibrating strings of recognition oozing through the dimensions of the cosmos.
    And if we are lucky, we get to connect with its basic core, music. We are the music that we hear, and when we hear it, it melts into our being and transforms us into music itself. Our eyes close, shutting out all other stimulation and we sway, rock, cry, breath the vibration of creation that we are. All of our toil, disagreements, hunger, greed, want, love, compassion, hate, fear, creativity, is part of our music, a music that we share with all the other temporary conscious parts of our universe.

    We make up rules and scripts to help us navigate our way through our gargantuan cosmos. How sad that we fight one another over these rules. We clash like our galaxies do, ripping each other to shreds as cross each others paths. That, I guess is the rule of our father and mother. What can we do?

    We can try to move through the wave of our existence in reverence, in love with each other and ourselves. How glorious is our cosmos, how glorious every quark, every muon, and anti-something, every force and charge. How glorious we are; how sad. Our universe has spent 13 billion years or so getting to the point when it can see itself, and we are hell-bent on destroying all that work in an instant. We are hell-bent on disorganizing the divine music of our existence.
    But we will never destroy our mother and father; we can only meld back into them, as one more experiment that came to an end. Our universe doesn’t care. It has all the time in the cosmos, to get where it is going, if it is going anywhere at all.

  171. Joyce L stillman says:

    to ‘what happened to respect’,
    Don’t be so proud my dear, Pride is a sin.
    And your sins will not go unpunished.

    Your countries will once again falter, as they did before and for the same reason, repression of creativity.

    We don’t fear you, we pity you.

  172. Joyce L stillman says:

    One more thing, I love you Violet, thank you.

  173. Violet Socks says:

    Joyce, everyone is just terrified of replying because of the blasphemy thing. Are you going to zap the next commenter into toast? (I’ve risked it now — help me!)

  174. b. says:

    The key point for me is: the Danish did not make fun about their own religion. They made fun about another. One that everybody is smiling out of a superiour position. And expect them to be tolerant at the same time. Well, let’s see if their Holocaust jokes have more substance and are more challenging than the Danish cartoons. Which from my point of view are very, very poor.

  175. mercury says:

    Muslims, what did you achieve by being acting brutals on those cartoons?
    Respects?
    Regrets?
    Rebuffs?
    Rejects?
    Why?

  176. Violet Socks says:

    By the way, Joyce, that was meant affectionately.

    We make up rules and scripts to help us navigate our way through our gargantuan cosmos. How sad that we fight one another over these rules.

    Indeed.

  177. Violet Socks says:

    The key point for me is: the Danish did not make fun about their own religion. They made fun about another.

    b, do you realize that the Danes do make fun of Christianity all the time? Not long ago a Danish artist who was hired for a public mural painted a picture of Jesus with an erection. That was very offensive to Christians. But nobody dreamed of issuing death threats against the artist or burning down buildings because of it.

  178. C. Peacekeeper says:

    Nearly every civilized nation on Earth is backward in the way they behave in relation to the eachother. In fact, with production quotas, marketing shabang a bang, stocks and bonds, fast cars movie stars tv shows fast food etc. All this stuff and we cannot take care of each other, we cannot advance toward some common good, we develop higher quality cell phones, we over subscribe sleeping pills, I mean what are we?
    The human race is slowly advancing, not in the degree in which we have moved forward. Personal beliefs, EGOS, i mean …
    just stop blowing yourselves up, or keep it up whatever works, do it in a safe area preferrably where no one can hear you, i dont want to come to your land and shoot you but i will.. and i wont be alone

  179. Brendon says:

    These cartoons are tame. Give me a break. Radical Islam is so hypocritical. I did not see them bat a tear when the Taliban destroyed the world’s largest and only standing statue of Buddha. Where was their outrage? Where was their respect for for an alternate philosophy? I have read so many people whinning about how these cartoons depict Islam in a negative view; that it depicts Islam as being aggressive. Duh. Hmm, let’s see. I can watch Al Jazeera and see someone’s head cut off. That’s a nice ice breaker for dinner. I can watch CNN and see the rabbled of Islam burning whatever flag of whatever foreign country that pissed them off that day. That’s always cool. I can read the BBC about suicide bombers now sending in their women and children too. But don’t worry, your family will be compensate for the loss. The President of Iran talks about Israel’s destruction all the while stating he wants peaceful nuclear technology even though he sits on huge oil reserves. If he trully understood how bad even “peaceful” use of nuclear energy was and how it will poison his own country he might reconsider. And of course, it is always nice to hear to from whatever country’s holiest cleric how the US and Europe are infidels. Now, I’m not sure about this one and don’t quote me. But I think in this context, or any context, it is not a good thing to be an infidel. Usually catch phrases follow like,” Death to America, Death to Jews, Death, Death, Death.” Or the current favorate,” I urge all Muslims to perform Holy Jihad against the West.” What’s so holy about it? Since when is killing good, ever? What makes that a holy act? A N D… these pathetic little cartoons by themselve portray Islam negatively? Give me a break. You all do a good enough job by yourselves. Had you not whinned about them they would have been relegated to a dust bin. Instead, every free thinking human on this planet now wants to know what they look like. What they say. And now even more and more web sites and newspapers will be publishing them. You can burn flags, throw threats and even go to war. But you can’t defeat an idea. Freedom of expression, freedom of speech. And as I understand it now. The Imans in Denmark who started this whole controversy have now backed off. Oh, but your wonderfully violent reactions. The riots, the burnings, the killings. And you are doing amoungst yourselves. And then you wonder why Islam is considered violent. You know. In the thick of things, religion sucks. God, Allah, Yahweh. They aren’t Christian, Muslim or Jew. God, Allah, Yaweh didn’t create a religion to worship himself. Man did. And in doing so, Man has condemned Man to continued destruction. I’d like to think that someday Man will evolve beyond the need for violence. But since most religious leaders- Christians, Jews, and Muslims don’t accept the theory of evolution in the first place, I guess we never will from their point of view. Fortunately, some of us will.

  180. hisham says:

    you sons of a bitches why do u all fuck ur self every day how can you do this to the religions yuo uncle fucking bitches kiss my ass

  181. Jerry Alexander says:

    All Muslims should be sent back to the countries they came from.They cause trouble everywhere they go.If they love thier contry and people so much,why do they leave?
    The Muslims have nothing and that`s why they Kill Everything.Why don`t these people go back home and work in their factories and farm their land and manafacture their products and educate the children.
    Why? because they have nothing and never will.

  182. Jerry Alexander says:

    When the oil is gone,the Muslims are gone.That`s all they have.These people live like sheep,Prodded by a few Shepards.These people have no mind of their own and they KILL EVERYTHING in the name of some,sand blasted,GOD.
    These people can`t even go to MECCA without trampling their,so called, brothers and sisters to death.These people just walk right over others without bending over to help them,and crush them to death in the name of some God that has one answer to all problems,and that is to KILL.If you don`t understand it,KILL IT.If you don`t like it,KILL IT.If someone scratches you shoe,KILL THEM.
    Thank GOD!! that their god is only worshipped by them.After we send them all back to where they came from,we will no longer have to worry about being,Blown Up,while walking with our children in the park.
    The peaceful world just needs to send the KILLERS back to where they came from and they can KILL EACH OTHER ALL THEY WANT,AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT THEY WILL ALL BE GONE AND THE WORLD WILl BE MUCH HAPPIER,WITHOUT THE DEMONIC MUSLIMS THAT HAVE ONE ANSWER TO EVRYTHING,THAT ANSWER IS,KILL IT.
    You might throw in alot of lies,deception,and double standards,just to tidy up the package.

  183. arnie says:

    The difference, Violet is : Yes Christians and Muslims were bloodthirsty fighters hundreds of years ago, but Christians seemed to have grown up – they will not plant bombs because somebody published a cartoon of Christ – they will engage in debate about it. At the end of the day these protesting Muslims – most of them have not even seen the cartoons – are just doing the name of Islam more harm than good. Would any sane person convert to Islam after this? That is why true democracy struggles to come about in Muslim countries – they are pulled down by their religion. Can you imagine what will happen if Iran gets the Nuclear bomb. They wil blow up everything in the name of Islam!

  184. A Muslim in Shock says:

    The problem is that you do not understand. You do not know anything about Islam, and you depend on unreliable sources to form your perception about it. With the open-mindedness you claim to have, try to enlighten yourselves a little bit about it. You will discover the reasons why We Muslims are outraged.

    Somebody here wrote that these cartoons are not racist. Here is my opinion, if you will let me speak my mind and apply the same standards of freedom of expression you hold so dear. These cartoons are blasphemous, racist, and despicable. Our religion, Islam, prohibits imaging Prophets…all Prophets including Prophet Muhammad as well as Jesus and Moses. We Muslims would never be disrespectful to other religions. So, we wouldn’t sketch up cartoons about Jesus, like the cartoons already displayed here, which you regard as an illustration of unlimited freedom of expression. (By the way, freedom of expression is not unlimited. As a human right, and as spelled out in the European Convention on Human Rights, there are limits to it…It is Article 10 of the Convention…Check it out if you do not believe me).

    Besides, Dr. Socks, you say that this is the way Prophet Muhammad looked like. Please tell me how did you know that? “That’s been the Middle Eastern physical type for at least 3500 years (according to ancient Egyptian carvings)” you say. Well, Islam came after the Ancient Egyptian civilization by a very long time. It appeared in the 600s A.D. So how did the Ancient Egyptians know about the Middle Eastern physical look? I believe this is a far-fetched and unfounded assumption, don’t you think? Besides, according to our religion, Prophet Muhammad was the most beautiful of all people, but the cartoons even sketched a man who looked really scary and evil. So how do you explain that? It is really a blind stereotype to say such things about Islam and the Prophet. It is also really obvious that those cartoonists knew nothing about the Prophet or Islam.

    The cartoons also depicted him as a terrorist, which is all the more indicative of your ignorance about Islam as a religion, because he was never a terrorist. Read more about Islam and you would know. I will not enumerate the occasions manifesting his peacefulness and glory and morality, simply because it is up to you, if you seriously want, to know more about Islam, that peaceful religion which is smeared through biased and extremely selective media. Besides, the cartoons connected Islam with terrorism, which is an unfounded generalization with no truth in it. Isn’t that a preconceived image about Islam implying racism?

    The Europeans and the Danes now talk about dialogue to get past and address the situation. But the truth is that no dialogue would ever change your ideas about Islam, unless you really want to open up and respect the Other. These cartoons have proven that all those statements about respecting the other, other cultures and religions have not been worth the effort to utter.

    One last thing to say. For those who think that Muslims are good for nothing and have nothing, you are mistaken. It is true that we should go back to our countries, but until you stop exploiting our petroleum and assets, you will have to accept us just like we welcome all the foreign migrants coming from your countries to the Middle East.

  185. Jerry says:

    WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE HERE? If you love “Mohammad” so dam much,why don`t you live where he lives?He dosn`t live in America or any free country.What is it we have in America that you come here to get? Why are you here? Can`t you Great Mahammad care for you?…….Why are you here?
    You people have nothing,your so called Mohammad has nothing.Why are you here when you could be so close to your Mohammad,in your own country.Why don`t you people just go home and Kill Everybody and all yor worries wil be over and the world will be a better place for peach loving humanbeings.Just go home where Mohammad is,even if you don`t kill each other,One can`t have everything.America dosn`t want or need your demands and wil not give in to them,never.So you may as well go back to where you Mohammad lives and he will take good care of you.You won`t have to leave your great mohammad land to get the basics of life,he,mohammad will provide for you just like he has so far and you can stay in your own country and be happy………That`s funny.You don`t believe Mohammad will really take care you you do you?He`ll take care of you alright.He`ll most likley kill you and you children in the name of “HIM”.What a wonderful guy he is,don`t you just love him?Just think of how happy you will be in your own country right there with you wonderful Mohammad.I know,I know,your making plans to go home,to be with him right now…right?I don`t blame you one bit.Maybe Orbit or someone like that can set up a group rate and you can save a little money.Good Bye,have a nice Mohammad type life,don`t forget to write.:)

  186. arief says:

    we all must learn what real mean “freedom of speech”are there no etica? until make other bumman crash
    with all of condition do not see from religion but see what what the person do, couse religion is brim people to right way.
    freedom,hummanity, union and unity,and other until the teory why tip of war, who must to kill in the war…. all of the way life there are war write in koran…..please read, read, and read koran.learn it
    so you can know what is Islam, islam bring peace in all of the world, all of muslim is brother if 1 ill they are feels.

    to you all do what will u do that free…but remamber dont distrub, make effect not right,make other man Angri

    you must read and learning koran.

    im so sorry to denmark all your produck in indonesia will be blocked

    Allahu akbar Allahu akbar Allahu akbar Allahu akbar Allahu akbar Allahu akbar Allahu akbar Allahu akbar Allahu akbar

    Allahumma Adzibil kafarota wal munafikin, Allahumma Adzibil kafarota wal munafikin.
    Alladzina Yukadzibuna Ka Wa Rasullika …amien

    wassalam love you All…

  187. Joshua says:

    Well, my freedom ends when i offend the freedom from my neighboor.

    The cartoons aren’t so offensive, but the radicalism of some muslins make it burn in hate.

    But the idea of the cartoons is bad. Is to play with a serious things for a people, is a way to satirize a whole culture, a milenar history.

    All religions and beliefs must be respected. Why us christians don’t begin to burn papers? Because Christianism is a creed of LOVE, PEACE and ETERNAL FORGIVNESS.

    Read the HOLY BIBLE!!! Open your mind and RESPECT THE FREEDOM OF THE OTHERS!!! Don’t try to impose your ideas, don’t be so selfish.

    Thanks

  188. Martine says:

    I really think it’s time for Muslims to grow up!
    What kind of religion is this that you can not sometimes laugh about it!? You are taking yourselves much to serious! Somehow you respect your religion to much and you do not understand that you can not tell other people how to behave.
    In Europe and in the USA most people behave according to the 10 commendments. 1st and most import one, is that their is only one GOD.
    To remind you, each profet is a messenger of GOD. He is just a human being. It’s forbidden to make people (who shit, pee and do other stuff) equally to GOD. Also very import; you should not murder. I think that when the Muslims would stick to only these 2 commendments, the world would a much nicer place to live in.

  189. christian says:

    I went through some of the comments.
    I think the all of you just forgot the main thing. Muslims (not all, but the ones wanting to create chaos) will be offended by anything. Even if you have a drawing of Jesus telling to the jews they are the chosen people, will offend since Mohammed is the god. So there is no point in trying ot figure what is offending.
    I have not seen anything in any of these cartoons that has no relation to some muslim action in the last few years.
    Are they offended by the truth? If this is so they should be offended by the people who generated this truth and I am talking about bombers, terrorists who act in the name of Mohammed and muslims. This is what should be offending.
    My opinion is that if the muslims who live in a christian country are offended by what is going in that country they should move to the country they would like to live in.
    I will never move to a muslim country, not because I am not a muslim, but because I think I have to be free to appreciate life. And muslim faith is not freedom for me.
    I don’t think I have to pray five times a day to talk to my god. If I keep him in my heart then he will be there.
    So, in a free country, if you do not like it LEAVE. Move to where you would like.
    Oh I forgot about the internet connections and all the western facilities. If I remember corectly the Coran prohibits having any other book beside the Coran in your house. The computer is an electronic book, so lets bend a little the muslims precepts if they are in agreement with what I want, right?
    I did not know about the cartoons until the whole mess started. Now, if I have ot choose I will choose danish only because I will respect their attitude and their position, and I will not submit to forced freedom and imposed limitations.
    I would like to thank all the muslims for their faith and for their position. It forces me (and this I accept) to exclude all products I buy made in a muslim country.

  190. arief says:

    for the relegion let do with your beleived like muslims pray with they relegionn, let christian pray with they relegion and so on… your God is your loved, My God is my loved, all af they seeking the hard of peace in life and live,,,,
    in all communiti muslims and non muslims must have good connection and have return to all, no risk,chaos etc
    in economi all of us must buld up together….
    the good man who make peace to they parent,brother,neighboor,they religi,they life, they home,they country

    to do something thing 1st what negative effect for them and if they do what effect for me. are there have goodnes

    “for the cartoonis you have made that picture, if you gentle come to my county indonesia,and all of muslim country speak infront of muslims “why u do that” “what u do after look muslim angry, do you have nice hart and feeling” have u promizen or sorry” i thing all muslim give u forgive…..

    for maker that cartoon what your religi, if u muslim too pleace come to me let me to kill u and bring out to hell but if you non muslim ill give your parden if u have gentle and want to ask to all of muslims people….

    im sorry for my writen ……thangs to all
    INDONESIA RAYA MERDEKA MERDEKA ….HIDUPLAH INDONESIA RAYA

  191. Willow says:

    Ok, Arief just said the following.. I know it’s broken English but I don’t think I’ve misinterpreted:

    for maker that cartoon what your religi, if u muslim too pleace come to me let me to kill u and bring out to hell but if you non muslim ill give your parden if u have gentle and want to ask to all of muslims people….

    Ok, so basically you’re saying that if the cartoon creater is a Muslim that he should go to you and you’ll kill him and he’ll go to hell. Or if he’s not a Muslim, then to make an apology to other Muslims.

    YEAH. SURE. This is exactly why many don’t believe or support the Muslim religion. That kind of thinking is INSANE. Why would anyone want to be so violent and evil? If Allah (or anyone’s god/religion for that matter) is ok with killing other people in the name of God then I am very sorry, I will never be a part of any religion. That is insane.

    Additionally, if Muslims don’t apologize for horrid events such as 9/11 (and I know of several muslims who don’t believe 9/11 should have happened but won’t apologize) WHY SHOULD non-muslims apologize for mere opinions, especially such a small thing like a cartoon?

    I’m all for forgiveness but it has to work both ways. Also, a word of advice, being angry does NOT work with the non-muslim world. We work with kindness, not threats. Offer peaceful words and it’s possible that some kind of truce could be made.

  192. Gabriel says:

    Everyone on this page is a blatant racist. If you don’t see the nuances that images do create then you’re either color blind or you live in an oppressed society.

  193. will says:

    Of course, I would be shocked if someone is coming here pretending to be Muslim and acting like a jerk.

    Wasnt it that pillar of society G. Gordon Liddy, representative of all that is good and true, who advocated pretending to be the “other” side and acting like a jerk?

    That would be shocking. Simply shocking.

    Then, all of the Muslim-haters could jump out and say “SEE!!! I told you that they want to kill people!!!”

  194. Moonie says:

    Arief’s words reflect more understanding and compassion towards those who are not Muslim. The “come to me let me to kill u and bring out to hell” part is seriously creepy, but, at least it’s appropriately directed to Muslims only.
    I ask; does it literally say in the Koran that you should “kill” a person if they offend Mohammed or Allah, or if you create an image of either? Does it specify to kill Muslims only, or anybody?

    It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the rules of one religion should not apply to those that do no subscribe to the same point of view. With that in mind what do the rioting Muslims want? A death? Is that what the Koran calls for? How can they expect to kill someone who might not share the same religious belief? Will they truly stop rioting if the cartoonists are put to death?

    Will a sincere apology do? One would think that is what a civilized society would do, or ask for?

    Nauj C Zitro:
    You missed my point. In the universe of this webpage (about 100 people) you were the sole representative for the Bolivian people until I wrote my comments. Your comment “Lets kill them all!!! Bunch of lunatics!!!!!” represented 100% of the Bolivian opinion. Any person that read your comments, and knew nothing of our beautiful little country, might think we are all a bunch of Muslim haters. Mine was only to contrast your human right to express you opinion. Isn’t this exactly what is happening to Muslims around the world right now? We are grouping all of them into intolerant, warmongering hate machines (not like they are improving their image by what they are doing) when the rioters are only a fraction of the Muslim community.

    Your political comments… I couldn’t agree with you more about the corruption in the U.S. as in Bolivia and around the world. This is the Reclusive Leftist website after all… if we had to talk politics, we’d probably be here forever agreeing on political injustice, but the point here is whether or not the images of Mohammed warrant such violence, and the opinions of those who saw the images in comparison with depictions of Christ.

  195. Gabriel says:

    Racism is an art that has refined itself, reinvented itself, overcame itself. With population growth comes a higher interest in maintaining racism as a form of security against outside threats. Any insensitivity steared against a religion, a race, a nation can be broadly seen as a racist action – as such it fortifies the defenses of the opposition at the expense of personal freedom.

    In an oppressed society like the United States the undercurrent of racism is very strong. Things are said very blasse, very subtle, but the nuances imply an agenda that is loosely based on racism. Just by reviewing the dialog here, it is clear that facism is alive and well, disguised in sometimes subtle and sophisticated format. This phenomena has become more evident in Europe as well, as nationals now are taken precautions in voicing their opinions forcefully.

    Presented in these dialogs are several voices: one that attempts to be apologetic about ones country, race and religion. Another wages war. Perhaps another yet attempts to unify. As well as many others. Regardless, trying to see this objectively there are no reasons to interject or to declare a winner. After all this is a dialog and that is in itself the victory over all else that failed. I think I just saw the future.

  196. bostongraf says:

    Just a quick history lesson for those claiming that chistians and westerners don’t engage in murder or violence when they have conflicting religious or politicla opinions:

    -The assassination of JFK and his brother
    -The assassination of Martin Luther King
    -The assassination of Malcolm X
    -The assassination of Lincoln
    -The attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan
    -The KKK
    -The continuing conflict between the Catholic and Protestant Irish
    -The burning of black churches in the south
    -The bombing of abortion clinics
    -The assassination of doctors that work at abortion clinics
    -A gay man was hung from a wire fence a couple years ago
    -A neo-nazi just shot up a gay bar in MA
    -Nine Baptist churches have been burned in the past week in Arkansas(?)
    -There is a never ending amount of anti-semetic graffitti being applied to synagogues

    And I’m guessing that the first thought is that those actions are made by etremists that don’t understand the true meaning of christianity…

    Well, isn’t that what most muslims are trying to say?

    It’s not just muslims that need to take other views into consideration when acting on what they find offensive.

  197. confused says:

    I would not expect a person of another religion to believe in my religion and abide by its laws. Whats with this double standard?

  198. katie says:

    To A Muslim in Shock,

    I dig what you are saying.

    Those who say, “if someone took a picture of my mother and made it look funny, I’d be hurt, buy I wouldn’t burn the embassy!” The point is you can’t make an exacting comparison, because you are not Muslim, it is impossible for you to measure the grievance, so how can you determine whether SOME PEOPLE’s reactions are crazy?

    Can you guys not understand why people do strange things when they feel pushed over the edge? I am not referring to all muslims, most muslims, or even close! I am referring to the 10 in 1 Billion muslims that do something stupid, like burning something.

    If you printed the Sacred Texts of the Jews – the ones that are supposed to be unspoken – and a radio station challenged rappers to make the best rap song of them – complete with Hebrew chants remixed – wouldn’t you expect a backlash? God forbid, it could include a fire in Brooklyn!

    You know most people in other countries know that Americans are killing each other all over the place. I have even heard this, by other Christians, attributed to as “American style Christianity!” Those Baptist kids that lit some fires; those Lutherans who picked up a gun; those Catholics that robbed a bank….. Why do you forget about them? I even heard a Mongolian say he guessed it was because Christians drink blood in their religious service! It’s the only explanation he could come up with – and this was a smart, live-stock owning, business man.

    I don’t think someone who is NOT muslim, can understand, what it feels to a Muslim that prophets, etc. shouldn’t be pictured. It’s like you can’t understand the shame/fear an African, South American or some Asians feel when their photo is snapped. It’s sacrilige! Do they have the power or wherewithall to express their outrage? to the rich western tourist? No! (Except for the Maori dancer who head-butted a Dutch tourist, breaking his nose, a few weeks ago. He was fired and the friggin’ New Zealand government apologized the rich Dutch guy, who was reported to have laughed (strictly verboten) during one of their sacred ceremonies. But of course the Maori guy was fired, won’t work as a dancer again, etc. etc.

    Anyway, my point is, why can’t some of you just admit, that it is impossible for you to understand the exact nature of the grief that some Muslims feel over this.

    * note that in deference to famous people who might like to sue me I did not bring up Scientology.

  199. MB Yunus says:

    I am an agnostic, or a diest at most, but I do read about religions. I think someone got it all wrong when he said that the objection about Mohammad cartoon was portraying him an Arab and not a Northern European. It shows just how ignorant we Americans are. Arabs are proud to be portrayed as Arabs — after all their contribution to science and civilization is enormous (like Europeans thay also had been a colonial power; they ruled Spain for nearly 400 years, and that’s where the grand Alhambra palace with all its spendor was built).
    But that is not the point– in Islamic faith, any portrayal of Mohammed — good, bad or holy — is forbidden. The Muslims have this paranoia that if there was a picture of Mohammed people would worship him as an idol, as Christians worship Jesus. In Islam worshipping Jesus (a prophet like Mohammad) is a blasphamy. There was a riot in Pakistan several years ago when Jesus was portrayed negatively by a local artist. Islam is the most monosthetic religion in the world, along with the Jews. My personal view? It’s fine to express oneself to exercise one’s freedom, but do not pick one particular religion to lampoon.

  200. Violet Socks says:

    I think someone got it all wrong when he said that the objection about Mohammad cartoon was portraying him an Arab and not a Northern European.

    That someone was me, the owner of this website, and I’m no he. My observation was based on reading numerous comments by Westerners in other blogs and in editorials complaining that the cartoons depicted Mohammed with typically Arab features — the hair, the nose — and that this constituted racism. I thought that was ridiculous and said so.

  201. arief says:

    ha ha ha ha ha haha nice opinion…..good goooddddd goooooooooodddddd

  202. arief says:

    yang jelas siapa pun yang menghina, mengejek Muhammad SAW adalah halal darahnya dan tidak berdosa bagi yang membunuhnya .

  203. Alon Levy says:

    ze iie me’od nechmad m’tsidcha lichtov b’safa sh’, ata yodea, anashim po yavinu…

    (That’s “it would be really nice of you to write in a language that, you know, people would understand…” in Hebrew)

  204. John Arden says:

    I wish scholars would speak up on this. (re:the 5th cartoon above). I read an article in the New York Times last year that said that the real meaning and etymology of the word virgin is really “sweet raisins” that grow in a fertile valley to which a devoted and upright Muslim will be rewarded in the afterlife. An incorrect translation was make by misreading the dots or the dots were missing from the origional translation which changed the meaning from sweet raisins to virgins.

  205. Gabriel says:

    we can go on about the cartoons and trivialize those events but the saddest truth of all is that for every person killed in 9/11 another 5 innocent muslims are slain by terrorists.

    it’s an irony that our propaganda machine: the newspapers, the columnists and the shareholders have nothing more significant to report than a racy cartoon series. how redneck how liberal,

  206. Redem Shaun says:

    Hey Moonie, I could not agree any better than with my brother Nauj C Zitro about Bolivia or the SC living. I guess you haven’t enjoyed your life in SC Bolivia! Do you want to live with Muslim people around your family or your children? Do you want these Muslim living next to you in Bolivia? Well, be my guest and let me know where I could send them to you from here Our Great North America; Don’t get me wrong they’re just a little more civilized here, but concerning my brother Nauj C Zitro I really understand his point of view; He does not want them near or close to him and he’s just placing his actual living place so openly to the world so these people DO NOT even think about traveling to a peaceful place that I may think would be, besides of what you said about drug lords. As per our latest findings about most of movie stars and famous people in the American congress do it, but since they can afford it in their big mansions and when they’re sick, they just check in into a safe and anonymous rehabilitation clinic; The United States just import drugs from Bolivia on a weekly bases from La Paz –Bolivia in sealed grey 4 gallon drums, they’re about 20 of them waiting to be picked up by The United States – State Department employee on an American Airlines flight. Pickup and drop situation here. “I read former first lady Mrs. Nancy Regan speech where she said that drug addiction should be controlled first in North America since this was a business issue of supply and demand.” This is taught in Microeconomics in any American College.

    Moonie: You should read more of our friend here: Jerry Alexander says:
    When the oil is gone, the Muslims are gone. That’s all they have. These people live like sheep, Prodded by a few Shepards. Or read more in: Willow says: Ok, Arief just said the following… So basically you’re saying that if the cartoon creator is a Muslim that he should go to you and you’ll kill him and he’ll go to hell. Or if he’s not a Muslim, then to make an apology to other Muslims.

  207. Violet Socks says:

    John Arden you can read about that right here on this very blog. The problem was that the verse refers to “huri”, which just means white, and the early Islamic scholars imagined that it meant white (pure) virgins. It probably meant white raisins.

  208. Argentina says:

    Kill these mother fuckers bastards!
    Kill them all
    If they’re dead kill them again and again so they don’t wake up in their kingdom looking for revenge.

  209. Chile says:

    These people destroyed our offices to show their power to the world? Let them come to Chile and we will fuck them so good that not even their omnipotent ghost god Mohammed will recognize them.Fucking Muslims you’re all messed up in your heads.

  210. Earthen says:

    This whole controversy proves one thing. All religions are bad, and do nothing but cause hatred between people who would otherwise have no reason to hate each other.

  211. Peru says:

    Let these Muslim people come to see the Machu Pichu and that will be the last thing they’d ever see.

  212. Violet Socks says:

    Because they’d die of altitude sickness?

  213. bob sly says:

    HELLO?

    Were any of the Jesus cartoons from major newspapers?

    Who gives a flying f what someone posts to the web. This is all about the source. Seems obvious, but somehow you missed that.

    I do believe the “big deal” was the bomb in his head one… why can’t everyone just say, yeah, that’s a overboard. sorry. move on. happens every day in the news.

    that said, a few people engage in suicide bombing every week in Iraq, so there IS a correlation between, at least, Iraqian religious thought and suicide bombings… just as there is a correlation between $400,000 targeted missles landing on those people and the “Christian” launching them… So I think the cartoons are ALL justified… but perhaps in a more radical forum, such as the Internet.

  214. will says:

    Geez we need to get some Father’s Rights Guys on here so that we can have a more civilized discussion.

  215. bob sly says:

    Sweet Raisins:

    Gimme a phukkin break!

    Nobody would even pick up a sword, let alone a bomb, if what awaited them was 90 “sweet raisins” in the afterlife.

    You can get that here on Earth!

    Guys, can we just all admit that, yeah, 90 virgins would be sort of fun for an afterlife experience? I mean, yeah, it’d get old after a year or two, but it beats my old sexless wife, that’s for sure.

  216. Violet Socks says:

    bob, the reason it’s believed that “huri” referred to white raisins is because this was a common motif in religious iconography of the time — Paradise was imagined to be a place where the faithful would have delicious food and drink, plump raisins, grapes from the vine, cool water, etc. A land of milk and honey, if you will. The early Muslims seem to have misunderstood the word “huri,” and preferred to imagine a masculine paradise where instead of grapes, you got girls.

    The early Muslims misunderstood lots of things — they actually couldn’t make head or tails of a quarter of the verses in the Koran. And religious people of all persuasions do have a tendency to imagine a God and afterlife that suits their personal fantasies.

  217. Peru says:

    I can’t agree less than Argentina!
    If there’s a GOD, He/She created earth discriminating against the human race, since the world’s most needed natural resources “Mr. Rumsphel” were equivocally placed around these irrational believers. Now will that be the end of our world? Or the raising up of the new native movement down here in South America will that be the end of us that were brought down here by our ancestor in their testicles, (ie.Bolivia)? Where are rational people living nowadays? Please don’t make these Muslim people believe in their new after death life, their virtual life; they’d come back as a computer game or virus to fuck up technology too. Why they don’t get just happy to fuck so many virgins around till their pecker drops dead and their twat becomes an ocean and drowns themselves again to get more virgins in their endless life cycle?

  218. Violet Socks says:

    By the way, in my afterlife I don’t want any of my raisins to be virgins. I want half to be 25-year-old boyish studs and half to be 35-year-old men who know what they’re doing.

  219. belledame222 says:

    >Can you guys not understand why people do strange things when they feel pushed over the edge?

    Understand, sure. Condone: nope. There’s always a reason. That doesn’t make it a good reason. And, sorry, my attempts to broaden my cultural horizons don’t extend to “oh, okay, sure, go ahead and torch the embassy, then.”

    I mean, that argument applies equally well to anyone who does fucked-up shit to somebody else. Columbine. Susan Smith. Jeffrey Dahmer. Sure, it’s useful to understand why, if possible. Then what?

  220. Bob Sunman says:

    I understand from the news on the BBC that moderate muslims in Britain are planning a conference where the subject for debate will be “Can muslims live in harmony in non-muslim societies?”
    The answer can only be – not unless you adopt the cultures of those societies and the mores and the rules and everything else that makes that society what it is. If you come here and try by violence and hatred to impose your conditions, your religion, your culture and your diktat on us, then, reluctantly, we will destroy you, root and branch. If you wish to live in the mediaeval brutal and barbaric culture of the Yemen then leave. Just go. We do not want you. Remember this is our country and is a Christian nation. If, however, like my muslim friends, you accept our culture, – which includes the right to be ridiculed, then stay – with our blessings. BUT YOU CANNOT PICK AND MIX. Either all or none.

  221. reply to all says:

    Firstly, well done Violet, quite a discussion.

    Secondly, The Big Picture ( not a cartoon )

    I have read every post here, and have come to a conclusion, Now I know why so much blood and tears has been shed in the name of religion, THE LACK OF PERSPECTIVE, you are all ( all religions ) so GOD damned narrow minded.
    Sure its ok to belive you have the one God or the best prophet or virgin mothers or whatever, but thats the whole point, IT IS OK, just like it is ok to say what you think or do whatever you want, as long as it is within the laws of the country you live in.
    In Denmark or Europe it is not illigal to draw cartoons of muhammad, thats ok, but in Europe burning flags of a country CAN be depicted as an ACT OF WAR , but hey we will not go to war over it, i guess muslims are not complaining about that.
    But if any muslim harms an innocent non-muslim over this farce that is illegal and it will be an extra step towards their revenge and I dont think in this present religious-political climate it is going to take too many steps to lead to a muslim -non-muslim conflict and thats a bit scary for both sides.
    I am not quite sure how America has been dragged into this argument, maybe they joined in freely? Now theres a thing…. lets take the biggest Christian country in the world and the middle east for example, What have they in common?

    A huge religious majority and OIL. (and the LUST for more of it)
    Maybe i am being a little bit obvious here but this is the problem coupled with the fact that their respective religions (god bless America?)gives them an excuse and a catalist to fuel the propaganda engines which in turn leads to people hating somebody they dont even know, sure most Americans or Europeans know nothing of Muhammed, because they dont need to, its called ignorance and most of it is in innocence.
    So next time a Scandanavian newspaper prints some Childish cartoons of a prophet, muslims all over the world can say Thats ok they just dont know about Muhammed, why dont we try that little bit harder and show how much good and peace there is in our religion and they can learn.
    Because people like good things like peace, THAT is why religion is here, there are many different ones but they all preach the same lessons and guidelines, this is the perspective we have lost along the way, stand back, look at the world as a whole, not through some religious tube and you may come closer to YOUR God.
    Think about it Wo/Man has been around for quite a while now and a substantial part of it was without any religion or God, must have been ok because we are still here, hey they did without oil as well, wow , guess what? we can do without them again.
    I bet Muhammed and Jesus are sitting up there in heaven reading this right now and saying “Hey That guys right, why didn’t people listen to what we said, they just used our words against us for there own use and now look what has happened, they want to kill each other!” and Muhammed and Jesus went to God and told him , and he was furious, and he struck down those who sinned against Him.
    Nahhh only kidding, then he would be just as bad now wouldn’t HE.
    Its not about all the fancy words its about there meaning, So to Conclude, ALL religions are right, just come to see it.

    In the immortal words of Dave Allen , May your God go with you.

  222. bob slys wife says:

    BoB, this IS your wife, and I read everything you said, so why not come up to bed and we can make like rabbits, eh bobsywobsy?

  223. LaughingOutLoud says:

    Thank you all for the best laugh I have had in months! This blog is hysterical! Way funnier then the cartoons!

    Bottom line – VIOLENCE ALWAYS LEADS TO MORE VIOLENCE. That was Jesus’ point when He allowed Himself to be crucified at the hands of radical, fanantical religious zealots.

    LOVE is the only answer to violence, hatred or intolerance. And some of the fundamentals of LOVE are Compassion, Tolerance, Hope, Peace, etc. I love the saying “He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword!”

    I say to you all, “Put down your swords, be they bombs or words, hatred or intolerance, and learn to laugh at yourself and others (especially when they do stupid ass things!)”

    p.s. The one about running out of virgins WAS funny!

    p.s.s. You cannot impose your personal mores on other people, no matter who you are. That is the beginning of the end of personal freedom. Shame on the U.S. newspapers for bowing down to the threats of violence and forsaking freedom of speech. Once you start relinquishing your civil liberities out of fear you have started down a slippery slope to God only knows where. What happens next? Burkas for all women, even the non-muslim ones?

  224. Clark Kent says:

    I suppose you think those depictions are very funny. Well, they are! The best way to deal with self-righteous nits who can’t take a little satire is to satirize them until they crawl back into their caves. If I had a website, I would post pictures of Bush and Osama and imaginative paintings of Jesus and Buddha, etc., and caption each of them “Muhammed.” Drown them in depictions!

    Actually Mohammed looked like the script covering the walls of the Alhambra.

    How can we make Christian fundies riot?

  225. dove says:

    To “muslim in shock” and other Muslim brothers …
    why don’t you guys answer my simple question? Why are these so called mutual respect mongeres not permiting other religions to practice in their countries ? Whos has been disrespecting other religions for so long?? Why so much lack of respect and gratitute for the west that has provided the technology for the Middle east countries to procure oil. Which country in the West does not permit Muslims to worship their religion?? what about the Middle east?? Please be reasonable and understand that it is only becasue people of other religions are tolerent to various forms of Disrespect that Islamic countries do that is why there is peace .If the atrocities perpetrated by the Muslim world were to be accounted there is no end to it. What are these Muslim brothers doing when women are being held as hostages in the Muslim world?? is this your respect??? What you need to understand is that these fanatics are hiding behind women and that shows what they are. The so called warriors of Islam have been caught hiding in the villages that host local people and that is why there has been casualites amongst the Civilians which is not justified in anyway.But who is hiding behind them? Identify your leaders who wise and stand by their words and not any tom dick and harry that propagates hatred and hides behind women for safety..
    No one hates the Religion Islam .Its just the way it has been influencing other people that matters here.
    I would greatly apprecite if Some muslim borther answer atleast one of my questions .

  226. john fortino says:

    You guyz are idiots
    be aware of the wrath of god
    look at how the world is right now
    not only the muslims kill, everybody does
    theres crime, death, and natures wrath
    this is all in the hands of allah
    the ppl writing bad stuff unintentionally want god to punish them
    islam is about peace, love and happiness
    once you find the meaning of islam then you’ll know what it is to be happy (without alcohol)
    it will all feel right
    other than that you worship the devil

  227. dove says:

    to John furtino

    Then why is there no happiness now in your so called world ??
    Why can’t you think logically and address the lack of all what you are blaming in the Muslim world??? Its not about any religion.Its about the double standards that these protests potray that is so grouse….The Muslim world can do anyhting that its laws permit it to do bu others can’t ??? everyine has their own rules and the Muslim world needs to learn how to respect that before anything else..

  228. Peru says:

    Peru
    These people are so intolerant about their believes that one day they’ll only be surrounded by their own cultures or never again have anybody around them. Traveling to and from their countries will be forbidden or they will not be allowed into any other country just by questioning their religious believes. The world will be in complete chaos and that part of the world turning back the clock into ancient seclusion or back into caves.

    We still have some found abandoned caves down here in the Andes Mountains if they’re interested, so they could preach antireligious ventures while other places enjoy our planet to the fullest. Do they want to be alone? Too bad the Moon is still unsettled, but gosh we need their oil so bad that we all could get together and chip in for a one way ticket out of this world. Unless we stop these powerful oil Sheiks investing back their country’s earned investments into the auto industry to keep on developing vehicles more affordable and efficient, without approaching or allow a solution from other energy developments to find the use of alternative fuel resources to move this world; They’re only interested about using their oil more efficiently, but still using their oil. We have to move into developing a nondependency energy source other than oil, and these people will starve to death.

  229. Argentina says:

    Cartoons from the Arab World
    A selection of cartoons from the media of seven Arab countries (Jordan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bahrain, Syria and Egypt) and from the Palestinian Authority is displayed below. A number of these countries are regarded as moderate or allied to the West. Most print media in the Arab world are under the full or partial control of the ruling regimes.

    One picture can sometimes be deadlier than a thousand words.

    – Tom Gross

    The cartoon above, clearly depicting the railroad to the death camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau – but with Israeli flags replacing the Nazi ones – is from the Jordanian newspaper Ad-Dustur (October 19, 2003). The sign in Arabic reads: “Gaza Strip or the Israeli Annihilation Camp.” This accentuates the widespread libel that Israel’s policies towards the Palestinians have been comparable to Nazi actions towards Jews. Jordan is supposedly a moderate country at peace with Israel.

    In this cartoon, from Al-Watan newspaper in Qatar (June 23, 2002), Ariel Sharon is shown watching on the sidelines as an Israeli plane crashes into New York’s World Trade Center. The Arabic words alongside the Twin Towers are “The Peace.” This cartoon restates the widely held myth in the Arab world that Israel and the Jews were responsible for the 9/11 attacks which were in fact carried out by al-Qaeda.

    The cartoon above, from Arab News (April 10, 2002), shows Ariel Sharon wielding a swastika-shaped axe to chop up Palestinian children. Arab News is a Saudi-based English language daily which is supposedly one of the Arab world’s more moderate papers.

    In September 2005, at a time when non-Arab Moslem-majority states like Pakistan and Afghanistan were making peace overtures to Israel, even supposedly moderate Arab states like Qatar were continuing their anti-Semitic approach. Above, Israeli jets over Gaza form a swastika in this cartoon published on September 27, 2005 in Al-Watan (Qatar).

    This cartoon from the Internet site of Omayya Joha, portrays an Israeli soldier who, having chopped off the foot of a Palestinian man, holds up a bloody hand to the camera and orders “No photographs.” Omayya Joha is one of the staff cartoonists employed by Al-Hayat Al-Jadeeda, the Palestinian Authority’s official daily newspaper. Her cartoons continue to regularly appear in the official Palestinian press.

    Above, Ariel Sharon is shown sitting in a large cup overflowing with blood. This cartoon, also by Omayya Joha, appeared in Al-Hayat Al-Jadeeda, the Palestinian Authority’s official daily newspaper, on April 22, 2003.

    In this cartoon, from Al-Watan (Oman) (August 10, 2002), Jewish acts are equated with those of the Nazis. This Nazi-type anti-Semitic caricature of a Jew has a hooked nose, a hunched back, has no shoes, and is sweating.

    In the above cartoon, from Akhbar Al-Khalij (Bahrain) (June 10, 2002), the anti-Semitic caricature of a Jew on the right says: “Say: ‘I hate the Arabs!’” and American president George W. Bush, made to resemble a parrot, repeats: “I hate the Arabs, I hate the Arabs.”

    Above, another cartoon from the Internet site of official Palestinian Authority cartoonist Omayya Joha, showing alleged Jewish control (in the form of snakes) of the United States. The snake was often used to portray Jews in historic European anti-Semitic images.

    This cartoon, from May 13, 2005 (a month when many western papers were claiming that the Palestinian Authority media had adopted a more moderate tone), shows a Jew impaling the northern region of a map of the Islamic world with the flag of Israel, with blood spurting out. At the lower end is what seems to be an Arab man hanging upside down, holding a white flag of surrender. This cartoon appeared in Al-Hayat Al-Jadeeda, the official daily newspaper of the Palestinian Authority.

    This cartoon, from the Syrian newspaper Al-Ahram (May 29, 2002), shows an anti-Semitic caricature of a Jew with a long beard and hooked nose, fuelling the “World Media” with “Zionist Media” propaganda, while in the background bombs are falling on the Moslem al-Aqsa shrine on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount. This cartoon stereotypes Jews, repeats the anti-Semitic myth that the Jews control the world media, and adds the lie that the Israeli government has damaged the al-Aqsa complex on the Temple Mount.

    The cartoon above, with text in English designed for a foreign audience, was posted on the official website of the Palestinian Authority State Information Center on April 6, 2003. The Palestinian Authority State Information Center regularly posts ugly anti-Israel and anti-American cartoons, including this reiteration of the anti-Semitic blood libel that Jews kill non-Jewish children.

    The cartoon above, from the Egyptian weekly Al-Ahram al-Arabi (June 8, 2002), shows not only members of the Likud party murdering Arabs, but long-time Labor Party leader and Israeli “dove” Shimon Peres standing aside and applauding with bloody hands. Egypt is the second highest recipient of U.S. aid in the world. The U.S. senate has approved a $1.84 billion aid package for Egypt for 2006.

    This cartoon is from Al-Watan (Qatar), May 13, 2003. The U.S. and Israel are shown eating from two sides of an apple that represents “the Arab states”. This cartoon is also noteworthy since it was published in Qatar, home to the influential Al Jazeera TV network. Qatar is considered by many in the U.S. State Department to be a U.S. ally and a relatively moderate state.

    The cartoon above, from Arab News, depicts rats wearing Stars of David and skullcaps. They scurry backwards and forwards through holes in the wall of a building called “Palestine House.” Arab News, an English-language daily widely read by expats in Saudi Arabia, is widely-regarded as a moderate publication. It is published by a state-owned Saudi corporation. The imagery in the cartoon may well be inspired by a well-known scene from the Nazi film “Jew Suess,” to which it bears a close resemblance – a scene in which Jews are depicted as vermin to be eradicated by mass extermination.

  230. Argentina says:

    Please check this out from above:
    http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm

  231. Art Vanderlay says:

    I you were offended by these cartoons, then so be it, that’s fine. Write your own nasty cartoon and be done with it. But if you thought about killing the author, bombing embassies, banning Danish products, etc. for even a split second, you’re an idiot and don’t deserve to live. Go kill yourself now!

  232. Farqualeet says:

    Its all a conspiracy…What nonsence to brake the peace all over world?..

  233. dove says:

    Thanks for those cartoons Argentina….
    There are umpteen other news coverages all around the world where varous religions have been targeted by the Fanatcs . Why do they expect respect for their beliefs if they espouse this?? Can’t the Muslim world open their eyes and see how tolerent people of other religion are compared to them???
    Well I still can’t believe the double standards the Islamic world has been taking even after such demeaning cartoons are entertained in the Arab world. Its high time that both Muslims and the rest of the world condemn this hatred campaign unequivocally and bring this to lime light.

  234. Arthur says:

    (Note from Violet Socks: This comment from Arthur was written in reply to comment #184 above from A Muslim In Shock. Due to a mishap it is only appearing now.)

    A Muslim in Shock wrote:

    These cartoons are blasphemous, racist, and despicable. Our religion, Islam, prohibits imaging Prophets…all Prophets including Prophet Muhammad as well as Jesus and Moses…

    Besides, according to our religion, Prophet Muhammad was the most beautiful of all people, but the cartoons even sketched a man who looked really scary and evil. So how do you explain that? It is really a blind stereotype to say such things about Islam and the Prophet. It is also really obvious that those cartoonists knew nothing about the Prophet or Islam.

    The difference, dear Sir, is that some Muslims even do not agree about what is offensive or not and they follow the extremists because they are scared of actions within their own. When you say Mohammed was depicted as beautiful – beauty is in the eye of the beholder – what is beautiful to one is not necessary beautiful to another.

    The cartoonists could have drawn a circle and wrote “Mohammed” on it. It is the message that they were trying to convey not how Mohammed was drawn or how he looked …. Or did that never cross your mind??

  235. steve3742 says:

    Re Argentina

    The difference, I would say, between the cartoons you depict and the Mohammed ones is that the Mohammed ones have a religious context. Most of yours are political, ie they’re criticising the state of Israel’s policies. You might not agree with the points they make, but they are political points, not religious ones.

    Unless, of course, you elevate the Holocaust to a religious event. This is largely the case in the West where it’s often illegal to try to deny the Holocaust, where any reference to it (in a disrespectful way) is considered blasphemous. In an earlier post, I pointed out some of the problems of free speech, about how some Muslims had responded to the free speech argument by challenging it themselves. The examples I used were a Muslim protester who dressed up as a suicide bomber and was later arrested for this (on government orders) and an Iranian magazine which was commisioning cartoons that mocked the Holocaust. I asked how many of the people defending the Danish cartoonists would defend these people’s right to free speech. Some people responded to the fake suicide bomber, one supporting him and the rest saying he should have been arrested. Nobody responded to the Iranian issue.

    I’m guessing that westerners in general, and Jews in particular, probably feel about the Holocaust being mocked or lampooned the same way that Muslims feel about Mohammed being mocked or lampooned. So here is an interesting comparisom. If we say the Danish cartoons are free speech, etc., then surely we must say that mocking the Holocaust or using it in political cartoons (as above) is also free speech.

    Regardless, it’s useful to consider cartoons that mock the Holocaust as, I believe, they’ll probably create the same feelings in you that Muslims feel upon seeing the Danish cartoons. If that’s the case (and I believe it is), who still thinks they’re making too much fuss over it?

    My opinions haven’t changed. I believe in the Danish Cartoonists’ right to free speech – AND the fake ‘suicide bomber’ protestor’s, AND the Iranian magazine’s AND the cartoonists’ whose work Argentine showed. But in all the cases, I believe they should be criticised for bad taste, at the very least, and deliberately setting out to offend and insult.

  236. allah forgive you says:

    for those of you that dont understand Islam, you have no right to have an opinion on the cartoons…..EDUCATE YOURSELVES on Islam so that when u judge muslims you have solid ground to stand on…you cant form an opinion when you dont know what your talking about. get both sides of the story before you judge, then your opinion is valid otherwise you just sound ignorant which to be honest most of you are!

  237. Willow says:

    I will ask this question again. No one answers the big questions. I realize that the majority of Muslims do not condone the horror of 9/11 in America. But the Muslim community will NOT apologize for 9/11.

    Therefore, WHY SHOULD ANYONE be expected to apologize for a mere cartoon that is not hurting or killing anyone, especially since the cartoonist is not a Muslim and does not need to follow muslim law?!!!!

  238. Gabriel says:

    My apologies to LaughingOutLoud for taking his otherwise totally not funny message and turning it into an orgie. Unfortunately the moderator caught on to what I was doing and removed the posting after merely a few hours.

    In the meantime a new catastrophe is taking place; another cartoon series has been found and it has circled the globe. Major unrest and demonstrations have been reported by FOX news and there is talk of putting all cartoonists on paid leave.

    First, before you judge – please review these cartoons, especially the latest ones:

    http://www.ucomics.com/tomthedancingbug/

    A final comment to Peru, Argentina, and Chile – you should notify your head of state that Spanish classes are available now and there are plenty of seats.

  239. Gabriel says:

    Oh yea, one more thing – Redem Shaun, STAY OFF THE PIPE !!!

  240. Sarah says:

    I just have one thing to say…It is not right to mock ANY religion, Christianity or Islam…You say you didn’t mind Jesus being portrayed in such distasteful cartoons- that’s where the problem lies…..YOU SHOULD CARE…They are prophets- not comic material!!!!!

  241. Gabriel says:

    thank god I am an atheist

  242. nancy says:

    Is it not a form of idolizing him by not being able to depict his image?! he is too revered to be be able to projec this image? too godly? wasn’t he just a man? like Jesus?

  243. reply to 236. allah forgives you says:

    In reply to allah forgive you, read my post 221 again, and for the record i agree the cartoons were published in bad taste, but hey that is what the press does every day.
    Basically Muslisms are making themselves to look like total reactionary-over religious freaks which is what the ones that are doing all the shouting are! unfortunately there are many million muslims who are just getting on with their peaceful lives and suffering by the actions of these dumb ass, violent, Un-godly people who are ruining it for the rest.
    So to all those idiots , Get a life, get back to your own country, put up a big fence and dont listen or look at the rest of the world, because all you want and need is right there (or is it?).
    To the rest of the faithful muslims, may Allah be with you, live by the real meanings of your faith and maybe we will be interested too.

  244. reply to all says:

    Hey I just had a thought….

    Why dont we get all these guys together, all the those that would like to harm the other side, we could put them, say….. in the sahara desert! Yeah… right, like a big battle field, and we could have the world media televise the event, and we could bet on the outcome and have some of the procedes go to charity…. wow that would be much better than Big Brother….then on the day of the battle we just drop a korean nuke on all the bastards and rid the world of these idiots, then all the money goes to charity.
    Now That is a good idea….. who would you bet on, Osama or Bush ? … gotta be Osama hasn’t it, bush would just bring his golf clubs!

  245. reply to all says:

    Hi Violet, check this link,

    Weird Eh?, And Jesus’s belt is the border.

    http://www.dprkstudies.org/2006/02/mixing-nationalism-and-religion-in-korea/

  246. Infidel says:

    To all. I apoligize.

  247. Reply to All says:

    To All. I apologize for comments 244 and 245. War is not fun. Again – I am sorry. Please forgive.

  248. reply to all( the real one) says:

    I did not post 247. Nor do I apologize, I was merely being Sarcastic.
    But to whoever DID post the comment, you are correct, war is not FUN, it KILLS, but it also makes a lot of MONEY for those in power, think about that.
    People will follow a leader like sheep to a shepard if they have the right motivation, that is what PROPAGANDA is for, and it is everywhere, everyday you see and hear it, but you don’t know it.
    This is not a conspiacy theory, it is a cog in the machine of politics, and without it, politics would be nothing, just a bunch of men raving on about how good they are and why we should vote for them.
    I live in Scandanavia, where all this trouble started, I don’t like to see on my local news that muslim taxi drivers are being boycotted and now have no job, because these people are not causing trouble, it is those who have boycotted Danish produce who have caused this! being over reactionary about a country that doesn’t concern them and has no right whatsover to tell what they can and cannot do.
    but the effects are felt everywhere and when the Eye for an Eye philosophy is used, as in this case, it will not stop!, it will end in bloodshed and innocent people will be hurt, think about that!
    Maybe you could say that I also have been over reactionary with my posts, not so, I was mearly trying to show how religions have strayed from there work or are used by people to their own ends, take catholism, now that is one big Firm, of course it does good at its branches, but the roots are growing in manure.
    I am sorry if I have upset anyone who truly and unselfishly (that is the word), i will say it again, UNSELFISHLY, follows there religion, but the rest of you can all go to your respective hell and may your God speed you there.

  249. Ron says:

    Thanx for this scientific analysis, I feel I have to share these thoughts with the world as I hope the academic approach will make people think what they are actually talking about…

  250. Ron says:

    Oh, and I almost forgot, did anyone notice that the cartoon with the 2 women in Burka behind the “warrior” actually also is funny because the little black bar in front of the eyes (“blind hatred” ?) actually is equivalent to the only “free space” in the burka’s of the ladies enabling them to see ??

  251. Redem Shaun says:

    Come on Gabriel! Hey it’s nice to be polyglot you just tick to yours.

  252. Mike Helton says:

    You say that Islam is a peaceful religion then tell me why do Muslims carry out such wicked crimes against Christians and Jews, both are people of the book so it is written in the Koran and yet you kill and rape them in places like Egypt, Algeria, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Philippines, Nigeria, Indonesia (and these are only a few of many countries this happens). Even in Bethlehem where Jesus Christ was born, Muslims have made Christians second class citizens, raped their women, taken their business and property through force and now they are being forced to leave the very place their lord and saviour was born. I see no peace just wickedness, Christ taught about loving the enemy and loving your neighbour as yourself, this is the love of the real God and not a religion that believes in world domination through terrorism . You do not know the true God of this world if you did his love would be in you, instead you show the fruit of the devil and not of the compassion that Christ taught. May the God of Israel have mercy on your soul.

  253. Redem Shaun says:

    Thank you Dr. Violet Stock, I apologize to all you readers and thoughtful writers, I’ve made up all the characters that imply South America and I apologize to them too, as you may know, I wanted to feel the religious human reaction on this side of the world in South America, but I guess they’re probably more interested in the Soccer Cup no offense please! I’ve interacted with a couple of readers and it’s been enough and I thank you all for that. The Spanish interaction is much simpler and short, in English is a much more complete detail dialogue formations sort of thing as if reinventing the wheel will accommodate better roads, but that’s all right too. Don’t get me wrong by saying that probably what’s going on now will become part of an adventurous reading material or a lucrative Hollywood movie. I’ll pass up this info to my colleagues and probably you’ll read your remarks somewhere.
    Goodbye and thank you all
    PTA

  254. reply to all (the real one) says:

    I think from now on we should start the post by saying “i am a (religious belief) living in (peart of the world)”,eg “i am a Christian living in America”, this would make things even more interesting.

  255. reply to all (the real one) says:

    I belive in the Chaos Theory (my own) and live in Scandinavia.
    What I mean by Chaos, is this is what our lives are all about (dont think to deep about this, see the big picture), We go to work and try to organise, build scattered bricks into houses, cure people of disease, preach to the congregation to bring order, etc, we go home and wash the dishes, clean clothes, iron them, put them away, we clean ourselves, teach our children good from bad, it is a human obsession, that is what we are, we are programmed to do these things.
    Now why does it feel so good when you go to the mountains for example, and stand overlooking a beautiful lake and see the reflection of the clouds drifting by, with no sound but the birds whistling happily….. because you have peace, the same when you are lying in the arms of a loved one alone, just the two of you, these things give a feeling, that feeling is the thing that makes us happy, this is what we all crave.
    Again as i said in my first post it is all about perspective, see the things that make you really happy, and I mean really happy, not some new shoes or a car, not material things, we get bored with them, they become mundane and we want the newer or faster or more expensive ones, this is just a quick fix, but unfortunately we are bombarded with advertisements making us want them, ignore them for a moment and think about your real life.
    What could you do this weekend? go for a walk with your family, take a barbecue and make hotdogs, look around, notice things you haven’t seen in years, be yourself and enjoy it, thats what i am doing tommorow, five years ago I wouldn’t of dreamed of it, waste of time, but it is these things that make you Really happy.
    As the Beatles sang “money cant buy me love”, true, but love IS a an unlimitted currency and we could all do with spending a little more.
    Sorry if this all seems a bit melancholly, but just sit and think about it for two minutes when you get a quiet moment.
    People these days are just to on edge, and understandebly.
    Go think about the big picture, do something nice tommorow,
    and everybody, everywhere have a peaceful weekend.

  256. roy says:

    in reply to 236 (Allah forgive you)
    Non Muslims are judging muslims on thier actions and intentions. As for EDUCATING OURSELVES IN ISLAM? How many muslims are actually taught the true meaning of Islam? Very few from what i have learned. YES i have EDUCATED myself. If Muslims followed Islam as it was written, this would be a peaceful world. Unfortunately, I believe that the vast majority of Muslims are good people EDUCATED by the altered teachings of power mad aspiring dictators / Hitler’s. A MESSAGE TO ALL MUSLIMS…..READ AND IT FOR YOURSELF. YOU WILL BE AMAZED AT HOW YOU HAVE BEEN MISLEAD.

  257. Roy Patterson says:

    I Do agree with what you are saying. I was not trying to be confrontational. I believe religion or belief in a god benefits those who believe in Him,Her or It in times of need or at the time of death. I think we all need to believe or hope that there is something beyond death. I desperatly hope that there is an existence after death, but am not optomistic. I believe religion is a sickness in need of an urgent cure if the world is to survive. I am not religious and will NOT have others impose thier sickness on me.

  258. Roy Patterson says:

    If only everyone could think think this way. We do it every weekend. Myself, wife , 3 children, 2 dogs & nature. Tranquility.

  259. Violet Socks says:

    Roy Patterson, for some reason your comments are just coming to me in an email rather than appearing here in the thread. The two comments above I posted for you from the emails I received. I’m not sure why this is happening. If you type your comment in the comment box and press preview, then post, (or just post), it should appear in the thread.

  260. reply to all (the real one) says:

    In Reply to Roy Patterson,

    I don’t think calling religion a sickness is right, just like you and I have tranquillity other ways, eg. through nature, religious people have their belief as a source for peace.
    I think the problem is that they worry too much of what others think and do, eg. the cartoons this whole discussion is based on, if they just got on with it and didn’t try to defend themselves so enthusiastically, because that is what they are doing , defending their territory, but the problem is Denmark is not their territory, just like Iraq or Afghanistan isn’t America’s or the allied forces.
    No Muslims anywhere, except in Denmark, have the Right to confront the publishers of the cartoons over this, of course they can say have their say, but all this violence is crazy, and some muslims are condoning these actions.
    Peacful religion is a fine quality in people, but we see it less and less these days, christian membership in Europe is plumeting like brimstone, people cannot see the point anymore, like you and I for example, it doesn’t make us evil people because we don’t have a God, and im sure we are better people without it.
    The world is changing, if they can’t stop fighting in the name of religion then let them get on with it and do it quickly, the only way I can see things becoming better is if peaple are true to themselves and work on their own personal level, admitting to themselves what they really want from religion, if the answer is an unselfish one, then its ok, otherwise they are complete hippocrits and cannot be happy in themselves anyway, thats a slippery road to a miserable existence. We don’t have much time on earth, every day is one day less, If people think like that things could change.
    Of course if you belive in the afterlife, all of the above means nothing, but I don’t think there is one, and if by some crazy chance there is it must be an awfully crowded place where Chaos reigns supreme and non of the trains run on time (wait a minute, thats London!).
    Have a great weekend Roy.

  261. reply to all( the real one) says:

    Hi Gabriel, you too, have a super weekend, ciao.

  262. wolfie says:

    What the hell is all the fuss about anyway, religion is for sheep and the gullible weak minded millions of you out there, regardless of whih NON existant god you choose to follow.

  263. hurricane hank says:

    I’m a MILLION miles away from that B.S. Though in our country they will demonstare in Montreal, on Saturday Feb.11/06. Here in Toronto, the largest Muslim Grocery store pulled all Danish products off of the shelves! So Danes stop making butter cookies and cheese. Your wasting your time only the muslims were eating it???

  264. iam whoiam says:

    First, Thank you Violet for giving us a chance to hear each other, and for not censoring any comments.
    Second, an answer to the “Iranian Issue”.
    I don’t know about you, but I was living through the holocaust. Don’t tell me it didn’t happen.
    The Danish cartoons (may peace be on all Danes)* mock an idea (not a man); the holocaust cartoons mock an event, the slaughter of millions of people. So there is a difference. And, U R right, from my point of view I can’t see the humor in the holocaust cartoons. But I can from your point of view. I don’t have to like it. I can even hate you for seeing humor in it. I know on what misconceptions it is based. But, I won’t support a government that stops you from printing it, or thinking it. Your freedom reaches all the way up to my skin, but not upon it. So cartoon away.
    On the other hand, U R right again, propaganda often comes disguised as humor, and can be very powerful. As a matter of fact, one of the functions of humor is to reinforce stereotypes.

    However; Sadly but truly, all of these discussions are as important to the universe as the wag of my dog’s tail, which by the way, is very important to me. Get it? In my not so humble opinion, which I feel is based on tons of empirical evidence, we are who we are, think as we think, do what we do according to no shoulds, no rules, no absolute morals, no laws, other than the ones we make up for ourselves, or for others if we are powerful enough.
    Saddened by this says: “The fact is that laws should be respected, state or secular.” Well, I’m not so sure about that; depends on the law. Laws are made to be obeyed, not respected. For example, the first commandment in judeo christianism says something like, worship no gods before me, but of course we can’t expect a Buddhist to respect that law, can we? Or obey it come to think of it.
    But getting back to my earlier point, and I say this to all of us, whatever “side” we are on, It really doesn’t matter, in the end, what we respect or disrespect, or love or defend. It is perfectly natural to believe in your own clan’s beliefs, to believe your own clan is the best, if not the only clan. It is perfectly natural to fear other clans, to distrust other clans, maybe even to compete with other clans. It is perfectly natural for a gene to defend its own genes. White (immune) blood cells know that. So don’t take it so seriously, we can’t help it. We’re just animals remember? Little stupid two legged animals running around thinking we are important. NOBODY CARES! Nobody! Nowhere, no how. I find it humorous but often imposing, that there are any of you who are the least bit “educated”, who still think otherwise. Nevertheless, you do. I know you are all well intentioned, even the haters among you feel well intentioned. But it doesn’t matter anyway.
    It doesn’t matter to anyone except the people you hate kill or maim in the name of what you think is right…or wrong.
    Finally, and forgive my lengthiness, I don’t think there is any right, or wrong. I do know that there is hate, cruelty beyond belief, kindness beyond belief, hurting people and hurt people. And, because I am an animal too, I cry for all of us.
    *Thank you Denmark, you wonderful people, for wearing the star of david. You are kinder than any country I know. And if there were such a thing as a moral people, you would be it.

  265. iam whoiam says:

    In any case “it is out of my hands and it will either happen or not happen.” :)

  266. Violet Socks says:

    Well, as for not censoring comments, I am having to delete porn spam. In both English and Spanish!

    If anybody tries to post porn here, I’ll ban your IP. I’m also going to close comments to the thread if this keeps up. Morons.

  267. Umar Yusufu says:

    Can We agree that race does not depend on nationality or religion or creed.

    Iam whoiam nice one we are only animals the sooner we get over ourselves and start acting as clever as we think we are the better for all.

  268. steve3742 says:

    To Iam Whoiam

    Thanks for responding to the challenge posed by the Iranian magazine lampooning the Holocaust and thanks for coming down on the side of free speech. A few things, though.

    You seem to imply that I don’t believe the Holocaust happened and that I see humour in cartoons that mock it. If you read my post again, you’ll see that I said no such thing. I did say that it is often illegal in the West to try to deny the Holocaust happened, which is true, a number of European countries have laws to this effect. I believe this is wrong for any number of reasons, free speech being only the start. Basically, I don’t believe that any country should have the right to say what is or is not history, even if (as in the case of the Holocaust) they’re right. Look at Turkey, where a Turkish writer is currently on trial for saying that there WAS a genocide (in Turkey, against the Armenians.) History should be left to Historians, not governments, and if that means that we have to suffer the demented ravings of David Irving, well so be it.

    As for the cartoons Argentina posted, I was just pointing out that they were political (mainly aimed at Israel) not religious. They weren’t funny, nor were they meant to be (unlike the Iranian cartoons, which are, apparently, supposed to be funny.)

    On the subject of facts, the Danish Star of David story – that never happened. (Too many people – mainly Americans – get their ideas of History and Middle Eastern Politics from “Exodus” by Leon Uris, an excerable work of FICTION, which is like getting your ideas about Modern European History by reading “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.”) It’s a nice story but bears no relation to the facts. In fact, Jews were not ordered to wear the Star of David in Denmark and so there was no opportunity for the Danes to show their solidarity. The second bit, however, about how the Danes helped the Jewish community to escape to Sweden in 1943, that’s true and is something to honour them for. See http://auschwitz.dk/Denmark.htm, a Danish Holocaust memorial site for details about both.

    But back to the Holocaust. My point was that we’re largely an aetheist/agnostic society today. So it’s hard for us to understand the offence caused to people who are genuinely religious without seeing it as a throwback to the past. But the Holocaust is treated as a religious event – what other event or fact is it illegal to deny? Newton’s laws of Motion? That the Earth is round? You could deny all them and people would just think you were stupid. But deny the Holocaust and you can be prosecuted. And in THAT sense, it’s treated like a religious event, for it used to be illegal to deny God

  269. papatango says:

    If it wasn’t for all the hoopla made over a bunch of cartoons, I would never have ended up on this site or some of the other blogs and links I ended up on in the last 24 hours. I’m sure I’m not the only free thinking person in this world, who after reading about all the threats, boycotting of Dutch products, burning of Western Countries flags, and watching violent protests on TV, had to see and learn more about what this was all about.

    In the last 24 hours I have learned that Mohammed married a 6 year old girl and consumated the marriage with her when she turned 9 (quoted in the Quran), that the Arab countries can print all the anti-Christen/Jewish cartoons they want and expect us to peacefully except their point of view, that other religous places of worship (temples/churches) are not allowed in their country, and yet they want to come into our countries build their mosques and force their way of life on us, and last that if it’s not Islams way it doesn’t belong in this world. I don’t think this is what the muslim bloggers, protesters, and terrorists wanted us to learn about their beloved Mohammed and Islam. Thanks to all the attention they brought to their so called plight, I now I don’t have a single shred of respect left for the reglion of Islam.
    Thanks for wakeing me up.

  270. Baghdad Rummy says:

    Yet another prophet cartoon at

    http://www.BaghdadRummy.com.

  271. john fortino says:

    to Mike Helton
    just an fyi
    throughout history christians have killed mreo muslims and jews put together, so id get my facts straight before i post something!

  272. Mark says:

    perfect papatango
    you said it all. tomorrow i buy danish.

  273. ib joe says:

    My opinion is these guys can dish it out but they can’t take it. Some radical Muslims bash other religions so bad, such as destroying the priceless ancient Buddhist temples, statues and artifacts in Afghanistan, and god(s) of other religions are put down as false. But poke a little fun at their god (or rather, his prophet) and they get all bent out of shape, like a bratty child. I guess they never heard of “stick & stones break my bones, but words never hurt me”.

    I know Islam forbids images of god(s) to discourage idolatry. But that is a rule for their religion, it has no application to people not of the Islam faith.

    Anyway, the cartoons seem pretty darn tame to me. Tempest in a teapot, and all that.

  274. papatango says:

    a religion of Peace ?? hahahaha. Nov. 4, 1979 59 American Hostages taken at the U.S. Embassy in Tehran , May 1981 Libyan leader Muammar el-Qaddafi had plans to assassinate American diplomats in Rome and Paris. April 18, 1983 Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut Sixty-three people were killed, including 17 Americans. Oct. 23, 1983 Bombing of Marine barracks in Beirut 241 U.S. Marines were killed.Dec. 12, 1983 Bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait. March 16, 1984 CIA Station Chief William Buckley kidnapped. Sept. 20, 1984 Bombing of U.S. Embassy annex northeast of Beirut KILLING 24. Dec. 3, 1984 Hijacking of Kuwait Airways Flight 221. June 14, 1985 Hijacking of TWA Flight 847. October 1985 – January 1986 Hijacking of cruise ship Achille Lauro;Bombing of Rome, Vienna airports. Oh yeah almost forgot 9/11, the Olympic massacre, the lopping off of heads of innocent people like Daniel Pearl and all the others, and the kidnapping and threat to do the same to young women who are in their country trying to help them.

    Makes you really feel bad about those cartoons

  275. iam whoiam says:

    to john fortino:
    the word I”d has an apostrophe in it.
    no capitals intended.

  276. iam whoiam says:

    Steve says
    “It is often illegal in the West to try to deny the Holocaust happened, which is true, a number of European countries have laws to this effect. I believe this is wrong for any number of reasons, free speech being only the start.”
    Well I certainly agree with you. I had no idea. Nor did I know that some countries consider burning their flag an act of war. But I have enough trouble keeping up with the stupid power driven laws in my own country without learning about those in other countries.

    I thought the King of Denmark wore the star of david, not all the people actually. (But I’ll bet they were behind him.) If it did happen.

    And if it didn’t happen probably that author thought it would have happened based on his understanding of the Danish temperament.
    But that’s not important either, is it?

    What is? Let me see. In my mind…
    Woman’s rights, minority rights, animal rights, Gaia rights, your rights and mine.
    My problem is I’m trying to find a way to conciliate my deeply held beliefs (however relative they might be) in libertarianism and liberalism (i.e. communitarianism). This is a very difficult thing to accomplish. Probably it is the true human dilemma, and one that was always and will always be in a state of tension, just like our own bodies are.
    And for those of you who can’t understand analogies, I mean that our bodies are a bunch of libertarian cells living in a community without which they would die. But the whoa thing seems to be run inexorably by a benign system of chemical and electromagnetic processes, morality being the last rule that any of them obey.

  277. Eric Paulsen says:

    Talk about anti-climactic, those “cartoons” blow, except for the ‘stop, we’re all out of virgins’ toon. That was a chuckle. All I can say is that I was all for live and let live where Islam was concerned before this, but the reaction to these illustrations… sketches really, is INSANE! Out of their freaking mind hand waving foaming at the mouth INSANE! How is this different from getting shot in L.A. because you were wearing the wrong (gang) colors?

    Any religious fanaticism is a mental illness. Fundamentalists of all stripes have terrorist tendencies, don’t think for a second this couldn’t happen here.

  278. Freeman says:

    ACCORDING TO JESUS

    *A HISTORY OF GOD
    *THE STORY OF THE TAV AND THE TAU

    The peoples of the ancient world knew about the God of heaven. The people of Babylon called him “Anu.” In Egypt he was “Anni”, then “Aten”. To the Hebrews he was YHWH, the God of heaven, the creator, the eternal one. The ancient peoples did not want to worship Anu, the God of heaven. To be rid of him they invented generations of other gods whom they said came from Anu, the God of heaven. They pushed the God of heaven into the background. They put other gods before Him.

    In time, the Hebrews became almost peerless in holding to the God of heaven, yet even they frequently preferred the worship of another god. This was a god who was said to give prosperity and shelter from disaster, one who could be made favorable through rituals and sacrifices. He was also less particular regarding the ethics of his worshipers. This was the great “storm god”, known as En-Lil in Babylon, also known as Baal, Rimon, Zeus, Jupiter, Thor, and other names in different languages and cultures as they developed. He was sometimes given solar attributes. This god became the “father of the gods”, and the God of heaven became almost obscure and forgotten.

    In the ancient world there was another god. He was the salvation god. Through him one could obtain a good life in the hereafter. He was usually conceived as a god-man, part god and part man. His original name was “Dumuzi”, or “Tammuz”. His symbol was the cross. Tammuz possibly existed before the great flood. In Babylonian documents he is listed as the eighth of the ten kings who ruled before the flood. His name means “the true son who rises.” He was later called by such names as Adonis, Attis, Osiris, and many more. It was in connection with his death and rising that salvation in the hereafter could be found. This was sometimes achieved by “participation” with him through a sacrament signifying his death. By the time of the Roman Empire, he was usually venerated as Attis, and a national holiday was kept in honor of his rising. This is the holiday we call Easter. In the Greek language it was called the “Hilasterion”.

    Connected with this Tammuz was a great goddess. Her name was Inanna. She was later known as Ishtar, then as Isis, Minerva, Diana, Venus, Cybele, and others. This great goddess had multitudes of names, and was generally called “the great mother” or “queen of heaven.” In most of her shrines, this goddess was seen as a mediator, speaking in behalf of those who adored her. Attached to her were such concepts as fertility, protection of mothers, and helper of men at war. She was the one “of a thousand names.” In connection with Attis in Rome, she was called Cybele. In Egypt, connected with Osiris, she was called Isis. Thus we have the frequently occurring ancient trinity.

    There was, in addition, a helper god. He was originally known in Babylon as Nebo. He was otherwise known as Hermes, Mercury, Thoth, and a host of other names in different languages. The “wisdom” of Hermes has come down to us in modem times in many forms. Along with the trinity and this helper, the people of antiquity venerated a number of lesser gods and godlings, each with an area of control and interest, but all under the great storm god En-Lil, who became Jupiter to the Romans, and Zeus to the Greeks.

    Among the priests of ancient religions there was a secret, one which was sometimes revealed only to an initiated few. Beyond the trinity and all their godlings was a hidden god, the god actually worshipped. In Egypt he was “Neter,” then “Amun,” the hidden one. In Roman times his name was “Saturn.” This was in fact the one worshipped in place of the god of heaven. Whether recognized or not, he is the god of this world.

    II. Sacrifice in the Worship of YHWH and in the Worship of the Storm God

    From the earliest historical times, there were sacrifices of animals and humans. When we begin with the time of Adam, in the Hebrew scripture the first modern man created by God, we have sacrifices. There is no explanation as to how or why. It seems that Moses, arguably the writer of the earliest account of Hebrew history and religion, assumed that anyone would know the why and wherefore of sacrifices. In his story, the sons of Adam, called Cain and Able, made sacrifices. Cain was angry that God found his brother’s sacrifice acceptable, while his own sacrifice was not acceptable. Cain killed his brother in anger.

    Why was Cain’s sacrifice unacceptable? Some would suppose that early man was directly instructed by God to offer animal sacrifices. The fruit of the soil brought by Cain was therefore not acceptable. Others might say that perhaps Cain’s motive for sacrifice was bad. Perhaps both were true. We know that later, in the history of the Hebrews, the people were admonished for offering sacrifices in the pagan way. That is, sacrifice to gain God’s favor in order to get something out of him. The Hebrew prophets took a dim view of this. David, who himself was a prophet, when he had sinned grievously and had repented, said “sacrifice and offering you do not desire, or I would give it.” He knew that sacrifice would not serve to induce God to forgive or to be favorable to him. What then was the purpose of a sacrifice, the kind of sacrifice desired by God. There is an example where this is spelled out in the story of Abraham.

    Abraham was told to make an offering in which the animals were divided in two, with a path between the parts, and through which both he and a torch passed. God made a covenant, that is a promise, a pact, a contract, with Abraham. He promised to give Abraham heirs, and after four hundred years to make them a nation extending from the Euphrates river to the river of Egypt. The cutting of the animal sacrifice and the passing between the parts was a token, an affirmation, of the promise. Here we have a hint of the meaning of the animal sacrifice system. It was an affirmation of the covenant, performed by a person, as an acceptance of a covenant or contract. The Hebrew word for sacrifice is “the cutting.”

    How did this work out in the Law of Moses. A “cutting” was made twice a day as a symbol that the entire nation affirmed the covenant with YHWH. A private cutting was also made when a woman gave birth, when a house was made clean, when one had sinned ignorantly, or when one simply wanted to reaffirm the covenant. The latter was called a “fellowship” offering. When one had sinned ignorantly and the sacrifice had been made, the covenant was re-affirmed, the sin was “covered” and forgiven. Cutting was usually followed with a feast. It was a happy occasion. There was however no provision for a sacrifice when one had committed a willful or capital sin. One could repent, meaning to turn again to God and away from the grievous offense, but no sacrifice was provided for. As David said, “Sacrifice and offering you do not desire or I would give it, but a humble and contrite heart you will accept.” “Create in me a new heart, and renew a right spirit within me.”

    The animal sacrifice was a type of the all-important sacrifice of the Son of Man. He was the Lamb of God. His “cutting” was not the sacrifice of the pagan. It did not make God forgiving or favorable or propitiated toward man, nor did it turn aside His wrath. It did not “pay” for man’s sins. In what way then did He “take away the sins of the world.”

    III. Sacrifice in the Church Built by Paul and Sacrifice in the Church Built by The Son

    The Apostle Paul had grown up in Cilicia, the old center of the worship of the Roman salvation god Attis. He seems to have come upon the idea of Christ as the true Attis. It was then a short step to the synthesis of Christ, Attis, and elements of Judaism. A new religion was born, and one that resonated deeply, and spread rapidly through the Roman world. New religions in the ancient world were syntheses of earlier religions, and Christianity was no exception. The god of this synthesis is a mean god, torturing forever those who do not believe properly, and choosing some to be saved from hell. History has indeed shown the mean-spiritedness of some who believe so strongly in this kind of god.

    The ancient writings of the Hebrews are valuable, though not complete nor inerrant. Extremely valuable is the apocalypse of Daniel, although chapters 8, 10, & 11 in Daniel were apparently inserted later in order to make the apocalypse seem to apply to a Greek king. The apocalypse of John gives additional valuable insight.

    The new doctrine of Paul was different from the story told by Jesus and the Hebrew scriptures. According to Jesus and the scriptures, there is a great war in the universe. Our world is a part of that war. The Creator’s adversary lied about the Creator to the first modern man, and set himself up as the god to be worshipped. Jesus called him “the god of this world.” The essence of Jesus’ teaching is that man has separated from his creator, and has accepted the adversary as god. But man can be reconciled to his creator. Jesus invited mankind through repentance and conversion to become members of his family and subjects in His kingdom. This is his “new covenant”. It is the great affirmation of the primordial covenant made with mankind from the beginning. It is the everlasting covenant.

    What was the sacrifice of Jesus. He bought mankind for God, not from God’s condemnation. The ransom he paid was to rescue from the claims of Satan, not to appease an offended God. He was crushed because of our iniquities, not to pay the Father for them. Satan’s system of worship requires a sacrifice of propitiation. It is his system that requires sacrifice to bring prosperity, or to escape a sentence of eternal torment.

    While Pauline Christianity found its historical roots in Judaism, it rejected Judaism, and for the most part the disciples who had known Jesus and His teachings. Jesus had said “Salvation is of the Jews”, and taught a purified and reformed law, true to its original principles, and alien to the Judaism currently practiced. He told his disciples to take the “good message of the kingdom” to the world. On the other hand, Paul taught that Judaism, referred to as “the law”, was to bring to Christ, and then was done away with. He later said it was “useless.” But the principles of the law are God’s will for man, and cannot be done away with. The small rules and rituals of the Pharisees of the school of Shammai, which influenced later Jewish orthodoxy, could and were done away with, but “the Law of the Lord is perfect”, and does reveal God’s will for man. The “law of Moses” as given by God to Moses, was an expansion of the Ten Commandments, given at Sinai, and suitable for a people living in an ancient agrarian society. The basic principles in the Law of Moses are still good today: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself.” Obedience to the laws of the Kingdom is always a matter of intention, though performance is never perfect. “Sin” is a separation from the will of God, rebellion, lawlessness, unwillingness to listen and follow.

    Why then the necessity of the doctrine of “trinity” in early Christianity? If God is not as Jesus taught, a shepherd desiring to bring back his lost sheep, not like a father desiring the return of his children, what is He like? He is said to be like a king with a keen sense of justice, whose justice demands torment for those who do not please him. But, it is said, there is a kinder side of him. He therefore works it out so that his son suffers a weekend of torment and death. He accepts this instead of punishment of sinners, and grants forgiveness of sins for anyone who believes this.

    Why was it decided that Jesus was not God’s son, but de facto his twin. This was to guarantee that his sacrifice would be sufficient and important enough to pay for all the sins of all sinners for all time. Hence, the doctrine of Nicea. Jesus taught a doctrine of trinity, who the Father is, who the Son is, and from whence comes the Holy Spirit. This is not the doctrine of the council of Nicea.

    IV. The Sacrifice, the Good Message of the Kingdom, and the Church the Consecrated One Built

    God, YHWH, Anu, the God of heaven, is the father of mankind. He sent his Son to be a man, to live among us and reveal the Father. His birth as one of us, his life, and his death, was a sacrifice which affirmed the covenant he had made with mankind. It overthrew the claims of Satan, and bought men for God.

    God has given the Son a kingdom. The “good news” or “gospel” is that we can become members of this kingdom here and now. We can live in humble obedience to the laws of His kingdom and have the privilege of being his friend and supporter. The time will come when the Son will return, receive His friends, and fully establish His kingdom on this earth.

    The church that Jesus built is a church presently unseen. It is made up of those within and without Christianity who have accepted the God made known by Jesus, and made known by the Spirit of Truth. People sadly reject this God, and in doing so reject His Son whom He sent. The members of His kingdom have seen beyond the doctrines of their common religions, and perceived the God of heaven. As was said, “This is eternal life, that they might perceive you, the only true God, and the Consecrated Deliverer whom you have sent.” They venerate the Father, adore the Son insofar as they have access to him, and obey the Spirit of Truth. No sacraments, themselves similar in function to the ancient sympathetic magic. No stacking up of good “works,” nor payment for sins by someone else, in order to commend themselves to God. They are God’s children, and He does not forget them now, nor in the great resurrection. Such people have always existed, everywhere, and in all religions, frequently, in spite of their religion.

    The laws of His kingdom were taught by the Son, but “Narrow is the gate that leads to eternal life, and few there be that find it.” “You cannot serve God and mammon.” In parable and plain teaching He taught that His friends were those who made benevolence to fellow man first and foremost. What is the “wrath” of God toward those who do not chose to become subjects of his kingdom. As the Son has shown, it is the disappointment this great being feels for the children of His creation who do not choose life.

    V. The Tau and the Tav

    The earliest and most usual religious symbol in the ancient world was the cross. It was the symbol for Tammuz, the Babylonian salvation god, as well as for Attis and the other variations of the Tammuz theme. The cross was the Pagan symbol for life here and here-after. The Christ was sacrificed on the Pagan symbol. After the synthesis of Attis, Judaism, and Christ was made, the cross of Tammuz, as well as the Tammuz way to salvation, became central. Early Christian bishops replaced the original X with the T. So has it ever been. The cross became the symbol of oppression to all those who did not adhere to what came to be the official religion of the Roman Empire. There has always been enmity between the cross of Tammuz, the Tau, the T, and the ancient Hebrew Tav or Tov, the X, the Greek Chi, the symbol of the “anointed” or Consecrated One. Enmity also between Saturn and the God of heaven. Which god resonates within the individual makes all the difference.

    The followers of “the way”, the Nazorians, were the earliest followers of the teachings of Jesus. They had known him and had been instructed by him. These teachings of Jesus, contrary to the teachings of Paul, have been understood and followed by untold numbers of peoples over the centuries and today.

  279. ThRomanticDevil says:

    Hi all..
    Im a muslim and live in saudi Arabia.im tellin u guys i was so offended by these cartoons,but i insist to read ur comments to see what ur point of views and what do u think of us.some of u you didn’t give a damn and some agrees and some said we should go to hell.!!
    well,i see that it our right to protist in out own way he is our prophet,our leader,the one who we loved the most. Prophet Muhammad means the world to us.if u Christians or Jews do not feel offended if anyone drew an image for Jesus or Moses peace be upon them. Well guess what, Muslims Do.
    coz we consider them our prophets too and we respect them more than u think guys,and we cannot say a word about them. Actually we r surprised that Christian and Jews are drawing cartoons and making fun of them in a very bad way.
    So please don’t blame us if we protested and made the world upside down.By these phrase i don;t mean to bomb the world,but atleast u let u know.
    Thnx 4 readin’

  280. Elias Murad says:

    (Excuse my English, I will try to make it short and to the point).

    You spent enough time on analyzing the caricatures, I advise you now to start reading about the prophet Mohamed. Perhaps you understand why Muslims are reacting in this manner.

    About your “Freedom”: You finally got some of it after hundreds of years and I think you need another few hundreds to get it right. Good luck.

    Muslim people do know how to implement the freedom but unfortunately are not allowed to have it, why? because of your leaders and their dirty games in our countries. So if you have enough freedom and courage go and till your Leaders to take off their hands from our countries in Middle East.

  281. iam whoiam says:

    TO ELIAS I’ll do what I can.

  282. AHMAD ALI says:

    Ifind all of this is non-sense & it’s no’t suppose to be happened at all because it’s religious thing & we are no’t suppose to miss with religions , in our religion (islam) we don’t make fun of any profit from any religions .
    it’s totally wrong in my opinion & it wasn’t suppose to happen & this is beyond any persons freedom of act or what so ever .

  283. im'ur'God. says:

    peda kitak kami ka enda kiruh utai bakanya, beli endar kitak belaya pasal tuhan kitak endur disembah enggau dikanggau kitak lima kali sehari nadai ga iya niga.AGI BELAYA MEH KITAK ILA NAMA KITAK BERPERANG ANANG NGEMAI KAMI NEMU.KAMI URANG MIRING ENDA BAKA KITAK.

    DAYAK LANGUAGE WITHOUT HARMES.

  284. DanielD says:

    Those cartoons arent that bad to begin with…

    It is just in their nature to hate and go crazy…

    examples:
    France barely has control over their contry
    Australia has had their share of problems
    USA lost some towers
    Russia has had a school taken hostage, students shot

    I live in Montreal, I would guess its only a matter of time till we get some Metro Stations and City busses to explode…

    There are so many muslims in Montreal that they can take over the city within a day, the the rest might try to follow like sheep all around the world.

    However, I will NEVER say that they are all bad, I have muslim friends and I have even dated a beautiful Muslim Marocan girl…

    Its simply a very difficult situation, I seriously feel bad for the good muslim people, who just want to live in peice without all the HATE that those braindead followers are showing.

    Modern = Peiceful and good
    Old school = need a time machine get back to their reality…

    Someone here posted that those cartoon have been published to test the predictable Reaction that they will have…
    Well I agree.
    And frankly, I am happy with the way they reacted… Please show the world who you really are…

  285. Mister Blister says:

    I wasn’t humored nor offended by the cartoons, but rather I find it funny that followers of Mohamed would react in the manner that they have.Following Mohamed, the so-called prophet, is the same as worshiping a pagan god.

    No where in the Bible do you read Jesus saying, “Follow Me and Mohamed.”

  286. ThRomanticDevil says:

    ofcourse Jesus wouldn’e say that,but he did not say also kill mohammah muslims are evil..it is all about RESPECT.
    Look at lebanese ,they are the victim of fanatics leaders and people,but now thank Gd they live in peace and they r trying to keep it up.

  287. jorg says:

    i didn´t knew that i was muslim instead of an atheist.
    That i had to live under the muslim law in my region, by the way a region that separates State from Religion and other wise; that all the people that i’ve known in my life, people who have varied spiritual laws, all had to live under the muslim laws also.

    ¿How spiritual is the rage and the call for vengative violence?
    I’m an ignorant and i might be wrong, worse i’m not a believer, but i’ve never heard from any religion other meanings and other messages except to live by the law of respect, peace, fairness, growth and love.

    If some people make religion an excuse for violence, or an excuse for extraterritorial totalitarism why others in different cultures should follow them?
    By the way the claim for respecting others should incude being respected by those others. It should go both ways.
    One should respect spirituality, but all of the package, with the responsability and understandment that there are different ways and rules, different people, different places… that goes both ways.
    Some think white, some think black.

    Claims for vengeance and threatening with violence others are just nonsense; they invalid and denigrate any thinking and any argument.
    If someone offend you with words you can´t answer with fisical violence and senseless rage and expect to be right.

  288. Omar ch says:

    Hi i am muslim and i want to tell you that something wrong will be right in another cultuar but we need to respect each other to build this world and make it full in pease.

  289. the hypocrite says:

    all the muslim riots that occured just confirmed what the cartoons tried to depict about the religion.

  290. Juan Saloom says:

    Part of respecting someone else’s religion, is respecting the sacred rules and regulations that are followed by a believer in that religion. A very important rule exists in the islamic religion, and that is not to ever draw or try to sketch the face of prophet Mohamad p.b.u.h, even if it was for educational purposes, so imagine someone making fun of it! Explaining the wisdom and facts behind this would take a long time, but in simple words, muslims are ordered not to do that, and would very much be offended if such a thing happens.
    If we call this free media, then how about i go and take pictures of someone’s wife, having a bath naked, or of two couple having sex in a hotel ,and then go publish the pictures or the movie! Why don’t we call this free media!
    I am danish citisen, i feel like going to the mall today, and blowing myself, and killing 10 other people with me. I live in a free country, don’t i! who can stop me from doing all that!

    What i am trying to convey over here, is that no matter how much freedom we have to express our ideas, we are still limited to certain logical boundaries. I can express my thoughts and ideas freely, as long as i don’t hurt the feelings of someone directly. No single one of us in this blog, would appreciate seeing someone making fun of their father or mother. Same with the muslim community, for them, if any fun is made about their prophet, it hurts their feelings. For muslims, the love they have for their prophet, comes right after the love they have for God, Allah.
    Why on earth do we seek trouble! Let’s just leave religions alone,and focus on other problems. I follow my religion, you follow yours, and we live peacefully and happily ever after.

  291. Alon Levy says:

    Part of respecting someone else’s religion, is respecting the sacred rules and regulations that are followed by a believer in that religion.

    You’re right. Another part is recognizing that this only applies to followers of the religion. Not inviting Muslims to pubs is one thing; not ever going to pubs because Muslims don’t like it is another. The equivalent of what you say is not abstaining from drawing Muhammad, but not making Muslims draw Muhammad (e.g. by assigning a drawing of Muhammad as a project in art class).

  292. --- says:

    i am appalled by the violent reaction of the muslims. perhaphs muslims rioting now should ask themselves, why is it that the danish would draw such cartoons of the prophet muhammed? there must be some basis or inspiration for the drawings.

    take for example the cartoon of the prophet with a bomb in his turban. would cartoonists have depicted him this way if some muslims around the world are not violent? who were the ones who masterminded 911 who were the ones who bombed the london subway? muslims! musims were the ones. do cartoonists draw cartoons of the buddah clad in bomb belts? no!

    i am absolutely sure the koran preaches peace and tolerance. any religion that does not is not deemed fit to be a well respected and followed relgion. obviously, muslims have completely misinterpreted the koran. in response to the cartoons, some of which depict them as violent barbarians, they actually send out death threats and start rioting. this simply reiteriates what the cartoons depict! are they just plain silly or just so rash?

    to rid themselves of this descrimination, muslims must first prove to the world that they are not what the world perceives them to be! after all, that is why most of us descriminate against them for, and mock them.

    my plea to muslims out there is to be more gracious and accepting. the cartoons are but 12 drawings. why go to the point of killings and torching embassies over some ink on paper? spend the time to reflect why these cartoons were printed and how you can prove these danish cartoonists that their interpretation of the prophet is wrong!

    we see as many, if not more, caricatures of jeasus online. yet, does the world witness christians rioting and creating a huge fuss? no! why? beacuse most religions follow and understand the teachings of their respective gods correctly! tolerance, understanding and peace. the world needs muslims to understand this.

    this is a vicious circle. the muslims riot. the world thinks that they are a bunch of aggressive and evil people. the world shuns them and is wary against them. muslims get angry that they are not integrated into society. they riot. and the cycle starts again.

    for god’s sake, solve problems rationally and with a calm mind. rioting and terrorists attcks only worsen the situation. however, im sure there are alot of muslims who condem these sort of reaction. these are the true muslims who understand the koran. these are the ones who will become myrtles, not the ones who strap themselves with bomb and blow up people.

  293. lol says:

    burn in hell all you infidels

  294. ThRomanticDevil says:

    It is really funny that everybody thinks that every is going to hell!!
    guys it’s so simple..we Muslims do not want anyone talk about our religion or prophet in bad manners,we don’t talk about urs so don’t talk about ours..1+1=2.

  295. Alon Levy says:

    I don’t even know my prophet’s name, Romantic Devil. The identity of the guy who started the Evil Atheist Conspiracy is kept a secret from all but a few upper-echelon members.

  296. Infidel says:

    I think I speak for all infidels when I say we apologize for any cartoons.

  297. ArA says:

    the muhamed cartoons were posted in sptember. why react now? the moslems are not reacting because they were offended. its all political!and their reactions are unjustified. e.g in lebanon the way they trashed ashrafiye is unacceptable…. that doesn t mean that thses cartoon are acceptable either. neither are the ones of jesus..and if europeans are so fond of freedom of speech why do they punish those who say good things about nazis? had their been cartoons mocking King david or other jewish would we hear the end of it? or it wouldn t be published in the first place cause that is where the freedom of speech reaches at dead end.. when it is not compatible with those who control it!!

  298. Juan says:

    Ok, I just saw a cartoon making fun of Jesus and the Virgin Mary. I am offended!! and tomorrow I will start a riot in front of some nation’s embassy and try to make as much damage as possible. By the way I was being sarcastic. I will never understand muslims. Rioting over some cartoon?? talk about stereotypes. They just make themselves look even more crazy.

  299. SHakeel says:

    So the cartons were made to see how the muslims will react. Well now they seen the reaction. Some find it really VIOLENT and PAINFUL as usual portraying MUSLIMS as terrorist ! now what ? what happens next ? So this was just a test ! has any of u read quran ? obiviously i mean translation of it ! the teaching of Islam ? or what this religion teaches ! BILL LADEN the big Terrorist is his last name MUSLIM or something ? why is the whole issue with MUSLIMS ? so MUSLIMS are bad ! thats the conclusion ? why do u have to test someone on their beliefs specially the sensitive ones. Just cuz of some bad apples why is the whole race going through hatred ? ok agreed that the cartoons are funny ha ha ha. but how can u laugh at a price of someones religion ? their faith. the sensitivity of this issue can only be understood if u are a faithful person ! by that i mean if u are a religious person. If u wanna fuel the fire then why do u wanna complain oh the fire is out of control ! u are not doing a test in a lab this test they just did was on millions of muslims faiths ! they might have overreacted. SO what should they have done ? just shrugged it off oh well no big deal just a cartoon what such a fuss about it? but the cartoons are depicting the most beloved human being in ISLAM. it is sensitive issue but again if u were a muslim u would know about it! its like u never tasted an apple before and someone is eating apple with lots of pleasure and u are wondering WHAT THE HECK IS THAT PERSON EATING THAT THING WITH SO MUCH PLEASURE. you can only understand the importance of it if u keep some knowledge about that issue. would this all started if they didnt post those pictures ? why did they initiated this ? what was the main reason ?

  300. ib joe says:

    I appreciate it when Muslims post. It helps me understand what they think and how they feel. While I am proud to be an Infidel (Atheist in my case), I respect everyone’s right to their own beliefs. Every religion is fine with me, as long as YOUR religion does not restrict MY freedom. If your religion says you have to kill me because I don’t believe in your god, then your religion is not OK with me. If your religion says to respect other people’s beliefs, even if they are not the same as yours, then I will respect it. I do not consider those cartoons as being significantly disrespectful. I think some groups of people are more sensitive than others and take offense at relatively small things. For instance, some people would be angry if someone disrespected the flag of their country, like burned it. But so what, it is just a symbol and has no matter of its own. You may burn the flag of my country all day long, I do not care, it does not hurt me or my fellow citizens. We should all be free to express our ideas and feelings, as long as we do not damage others. Is a religious cartoon damage? Does it cause physical pain? Emotional pain? If one is secure in their beliefs then simple teasing, or even direct insults should not disturb. mho.

  301. haq says:

    “LAILAHAILLALLAH MUHAMMADARRASOLULLAH”

  302. Alon Levy says:

    la ilaha illallah, wala allah.

  303. prakash says:

    hi

  304. Violet Socks says:

    Alon, I didn’t know you spoke ilaha illallah?

  305. nothing says:

    jesus for christians are god and mohamed for muslims is their prophet so it’s mandatory to respect the others so i think the drawings of jesus and mohamed are not a good idea because it begins by a small cartoons to convince comunities that the drawings are normal and then it finishes by losing all the human values to serve the biggest idea of the world which is “francmassonnerie” to make a world with no religion to control all its sources.

  306. Alon Levy says:

    Oh, Violet, I don’t. I learned Arabic in school in Israel, but I only remember about 15 words of it. In case you don’t know, in my comment I corrupted the Shahadah from “There is no god but Allah; Muhammad is Allah’s messenger,” to “There is no god but Allah, and there is no Allah.”

  307. attention says:

    i want to say be aware that if the “francmassonnerie” continues what she did she will remove all the human limitations and values that come from the reloigions and when there no more values she controlled the world and it’s the worst ideology and i think that the jews and the most rich man in the world like chirak-hariri-bush-gates-rousseau-junblat……. encourage this ideology to be more rich and let the human with no values so be attention and dont let those fucking persons let us away from god

  308. Alon Levy says:

    Could try posting that again, but making at least a little bit of sense?

  309. reply to all ( the real one) says:

    Wow, I am so glad i am not tied down by any religion, it must take so much time and effort, I am exhausted listening to all these reply’s from muslims and christians alike.
    I think I know what will happen on these peoples deathbeds, it goes something like this,,,,,, Oh i am so near the end of my time on earth,, but,,, soon i will be with jesus/mohammed or whoever and i will be so happy in the afterlife,,,,, he will come to me,,, i will see the light,,,,,arrrrggghhh,,, shit that hurts,,,,, beeeeeeep ,,,,, darkness,,,, nothing,,,, no feeling,, no light,,, no NOTHING,,,, your DEAD………..
    What a fucking waste of time all that was, eh? believing all that time that there was a God, prophet or whoever, you guys are just programmed computers, just like all of us, but you have some serious bugs in yours, Get on with your lives and WAKE UP! , NOW before its all to late!!!!!
    Your worrying about the wrong things, like cartoons and what he said about my god, my gods better than yours, ner, ner, ner, ner, ner, FUCK OFF!!! You want a religious war?? Great!!!! BRing it on, I will subscribe to watch that, go ahead blow the shit out of each other, nothing could be better, It can’t happen fast enough.
    So i will start it off.

    Jesus was a lousy carpenter, an alchohlic ( water into wine), had a whore for a mother, and had sex with sheep.

    Mohammed was a pedofile, loved BLT sandwiches, wore a skirt because he like the “feeling” and was actually from australia.

    And GOD (whichever one) is one sick motha fucka.

    I wholeheartedly apologise to any of you that unselfishly and peacfully follow your faith, but to the rest of you violent war-mongering assholes, LETS BEGIN….. ding, ding,,,, round one.

  310. reply to all ( the real one) says:

    P.S. and this time i am not being sarcastic.

  311. huricaned hank says:

    UPDATE TORONTO: February 19 2006

    The Cartoon-Nazi?s were at it again. This time they are PROTESTING!
    It?s not bad enough that Danish Butter Cookies are now being sold at world record low prices with free packs of Danish Blue Cheese offered as a purchase enticement. The poor and the homeless are now lining up at Dollar stores welcoming the bargain gourmet, and are rejoicing in the delicacies. Though, the product labels do say made in the U.A.E., many of the poor were mentioning ?What about the Danish Beer!??

    Back on the battle fronts, some HOLY MEN, protest leaders, have been cryptic in their holy warnings especially the expounded fact that there are ?1 Billion Muslims worldwide!? So there, all you other religions, you are out numbered! He went on to say? ?We are the World? we are the Children, We are the ones who will make a better World.?

    Some cryptic chants of his supporters has been deciphered:

    ?You better watch out? you better not shout?
    You better not draw? cause you?ve gone to far.
    Ji-had is coming to town? Ji-had is coming to town… Ji-had is coming to town.
    We know where you are sleeping, we know when you are awake?
    and we know just what it takes? and maybe it?ll be YOUR life we?ll take!!?

    It all adds up to a cryptic warning, only decipherable by highly regarded de-evolved scholars such as myself. I find it to mean only one thing. Dire times could be upon us, sooner than we think! I?ve already visited the Smith and Wesson web site. They are right ?Crime rates go down when criminals don?t know who?s carrying a gun.? ?The best offence is a strong defence.? My defence is a fully automatic 45, and the excuse ?Who knows what he was going to do! Catholic Churches, Children, the Sick and the Elderly!!!!! Maybe he?s a Holy criminal or one of those fools of ignorance that do not even follow their teachings, a Jihad Mercenary? I wasn?t going to wait and see! Well, the hell with my teachings, global dominance depends on me!!!!?

    NEW CARTOON

    ?Over 1 Billion Served, and well deserved.?

  312. Infidel says:

    If anyone does not fall short in speech, he is a perfect man.

    If we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we also guide their whole bodies.

    It is the same with ships; even though they are so large and driven by fierce winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot’s inclination wishes.

    In the same way the tongue is a small member and yet has great pretensions.

    Consider how small a fire can set a huge forest ablaze.

    James 3:1-10

  313. iam whoiam says:

    I’ve got my S&W loaded. It almost seems like fun
    at this point. How horrible! And I don’t even have testosterone!

  314. Alon Levy says:

    You make no sense, Huricaned Hank, but Jihad is Coming to Town is hilarious.

  315. Infidel says:

    From the same mouth come blessing and cursing.
    My brothers and sisters, this need not be so.

  316. Infidel says:

    Comments are encourged – unless, of course, your remarks are of a racist or sexist/anti-feminist variety. In that case, please note that there are plenty of hate blogs on the web where your delusions will be welcome. This isn’t one of them.

  317. Violet says:

    Hey, congratulations on being possibly the only person who has actually read the Comments policy.

    Actually I’ve extended a huge amount of latitude in these two cartoon threads, largely because the whole issue revolves around free speech.

    What I will not tolerate, in this thread or any other, is porn or porn-like obscenity. Comments that consist of a string of obscene phrases utterly devoid of content relating to this issue are deleted. Otherwise the thread would be full of comments consisting entirely of, “[insert non-grammatical string of every four letter word you’ve ever heard in your life.]”

  318. Infidel says:

    I Apologize.

    …but no man can tame the tongue.

    It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse men who are made in the likeness of God.

    James 3:1-10

  319. Alon Levy says:

    Otherwise the thread would be full of comments consisting entirely of, “[insert non-grammatical string of every four letter word you’ve ever heard in your life.]”

    Swim lack have cake trot four very tame clay pill star cows ways real were tree

  320. Infidel says:

    code, slit, bean, knot, bone, kite, rose, meat, mope, team, flit, mire, bear, oxen, wire, foam, wait, ovum,

  321. hurricaned hank says:

    None of this makes sense! In T.O the Muslims began with a Danish food boycott and it’s escallating, peacefully. We have rational muslims, WHEW!! My fake paranoia, is in jest that it’s the weaker minds that are falling for it TURN ANOTHER CHEEK, we all do at some point!

  322. jman (jesus's son alahs father) says:

    Bloody hell!!!! lets all get together over a ham sandwich and a cold beer and chat about how funny these cartoons are not and how stupid the MUSLIM Religion looks. Over reaction like this shows how uneducated and ignorant these inbred infidels are. If their religion is so ultimate then sit back relax and let ALLAH take care of the journalist who drew these cartoons. ALLAH is probably pissing his pants laughing at how futile and stupid the sensless loss of time and life that has eventuated as a result of his FACE.

    HA HA HA.

    p.s. come to Australia and leave your scarf at the airport or dont come at all. We welcome all people who wish to assimulate and not populate for the sake of religious strength. use a condom.

  323. Infidel says:

    A cartoon or a quip or a jab or a joke.

    !!!!GOD!!!!!

    ya think he gives a shit?

  324. Infidel says:

    Pictures speak a thousand words

    Muslims are notorious for blowing themselves up with bombs.
    It has been said seven virgins await Muslim martyrs and there have been many martyrs- do the math.
    The mystery of why Jesus would sacrifice himself can be answered by considering how desireable “chicks” are.

    Somebody draws something. You see it and interpret it.
    Somebody writes something. You read it and interpret it.
    Somebody says something. You hear it and interpret it.

    If you expect only to see what your God or Prophet deems proper, then you expect to be blind.
    If you expect only to hear what your God or Prophet deem proper, then you expect to be deaf.

    There are no Godbags.

  325. hangman of danes says:

    ı will kiil all of you fucking danes…ı am a turkısh fucker fatih…

  326. reply to all (the real one) says:

    Hey Turkish Fucker (his words not mine Dr.Socks), have you ever seen an average Dane, I would like to see you try and kill one, the average Dane could eat you alive and shit you out again in his sleep! You guys are picking on the wrong guys, these dudes are VIKINGS, don’t piss them off, because the danish vikings actually got to Turkey over a thousand years ago in open sailing boats, nah, you muslims are are all just full of hot air, the only way you can fight is with terrorism, cowards, yellow bellied rag heads, the reason your women wear veils is so they can laugh at you without being seen, they just think your a bunch of cowardly bastards as well.

  327. Infidel says:

    What self respecting Muslim would climb on a raft and sail the Pacific to prove South Americans are the first Polyponesians?

  328. deurca says:

    I agree that the danish press should excersise more discretion and respect others’ religious beliefs, regardless of how godless “some” people of that faith seem to be.

    At the same time I cannot reconcile certain islamics becoming violent and lawless due to the images. Every day Christians and other faiths are assaulted by articles depicting their faith and their Messiah in the mosst obscene and sometimes crude ways. Don’t you think that they are as offended or moreso that the islamics are? I don’t see violent christian protests taking place every day do you?

    Portraying the Prophet Mohammed as militant is not a false depiction since he has been known historically as a militant religious leader. The islamics owe the spread of their religion by forced and willing conversion, to him. He had waged war against both Jews and Christians for many years before he died. If Allah had a problem with it then let him handle it. You are on his side anyway aren’t you? Then let him see to his own afairs. Nothing a man can do out of anger or vengeance can be God’s work. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.

  329. deurca says:

    If there are any true Christians posting here i urge you to partake in the insults and temper flaring we are witnessing here. I don’t know if Mohammed would approve of his muslims taking part in hateful or vengeful word throwing or actions but I know for certain that Jesus would not approve of Christians doing this.

    So please pray for those being affected by these recent developments my brothers and try to foster a spirit of peace in this world.

  330. Infidel says:

    Or sail off to Polyponesia in a raft to prove South Americans are the first Polyponesians.

  331. Infidel says:

    …woah, woah, wait a minute. Swedes are Norwiegans. Vikings were Danish? I need a cartoon to straighten this out for me. I’m constantly mixing up the Danish, Swedes, Norwiegans, and Swiss. Ralph Cramden and Fred Flintstone. Cartoons, UpFront-now there was a cartoon. Karl Malden, Bill Maulden. Similies Metaphors words. God as a symbol, The real life of a prophet. Historical Jesus. Fact, Fiction, belief, faith. The written word. Cartoons. How could cartoons incite a riot???!!!
    The destruction of a mosk one of “The Mosks” has got to signal the end of the world. And how is America to blame? But there it is. If Bush didn’t meddle… What alternative answers are there to this nonsense? Cartoons? Bombs? Jesus? the Prohet? Only God could know, if you know-fill us all in. It is my faith there is an answer. It has to be close to publishing cartoons, maybe ones that don’t need captions so language doesn’t get in the way.

  332. sgfsdgbf says:

    ayri fikoun bi zabri

    kiss emmak mou7ammad

    3ala emmak ya yasou3

  333. susan says:

    This message for these people: Halili, christopher , Just Brilliant and all people in denmark..we muslums love our prophet and our own relign, god send him 2 us..we should have some respect right? Its not our problen if u r doin wut u called it freedom of speech..freedom have red lines right??
    we are more stronger than u cuz of our faith and our god…Muslims are great people and who dnt knw that go 2 hell.im working with both musliams nd christans and u knw we never distungish between them..we all human

    U fuck Halimi im sure u r not musilim u r lying so dnt act ok baby??

    Denmark is goin 2 c…Musliams will always b one hand…
    America u knw u r a big liyer…

    What if we will draw you presedant denmark??OR juese???btw Juese is a great person and chrisians shoukd not allow denmark 2 make fun of him.>>>

    If u dnt respect ur self u c….

  334. Infidel says:

    sgfsdgbf,
    I apologize, I can’t read flrf.
    Violet,
    Couldn’t sgfsdgbf’s comments be construed as a pornographic string of one letter words?
    Susan,
    How do I keep Denmark from making fun of Juese?

  335. Violet says:

    Violet,
    Couldn’t sgfsdgbf’s comments be construed as a pornographic string of one letter words?

    Who knows? I don’t read flrf either.

    And speaking of incomprehensible comments — Rule: none of that text message cryptogram stuff.

    Susan, I appreciate that you’re probably not a native English speaker, but the use of text-message abbreviations actually makes your comment much harder to read. Try to write in full English. Thanks!

  336. Infidel says:

    I suppose the greatest impact I could make upon the combined Danes would involve blowing something up. Perhaps a cartoon about cheese. Hmmm. How to get at these damn Danes. Would wooden shoes stuck up a goats ass get at their collective sensitivities enough to keep them from disrepecting Juese. I’ll do it! I’ll shock them into submission. I’ll boycott. I’ll pray. I’ll eat crow.

  337. relpy to all says:

    Susan, Your English isn’t so bad, we understand. But your point about drawing the president of Denmark (King maybe better) or the Juese (Jews I would guess?) IS exactly the point, people concerned may be upset, but the certainly would not through up such a fuss over the issue, the trend we are seeing is that Muslims (maybe not all) are totally over reacting and it is making the rest of the world think they’re crazy, it is also scaring people and when people get scared they can retaliate in a very big way.
    I wonder if it is possible that a christian and a muslim could sit in a room and have a nice chat and shake hands after all of this, i really cannot see it happening, maybe the pictures on tv are the worst of the muslims actions but these things really get into the bones of everyone involved, just look at Nigeria the other day with christians and muslims killing each other, this was all started over some stupid cartoons, will it stop before it reaches Jihad or is that what Muslims want?
    Mr Bob Marley please sing your words of wisdom, ONE LOVE! one heart, lets get together and feel alright. Peace.

  338. Infidel says:

    Yes.

  339. Infidel says:

    I swear to God I was just shaking the hand of a Muslim this afternoon.

  340. relpy to all says:

    Good, lets have more of it.

  341. Infidel says:

    Violet,
    What keeps a radical Muslim from seeking you out and punishing you personally for publishing cartoons on the world wide fucking web?
    Watch your back.
    Did you notice a boom in postings. It might be interesting to see raw numbers over time. I was originally drawn to this blog over the cartoons, couldn’t figure out…what the fuck? Cartoons? I recall at least one other post 269 papatango that was too. There is alot here to be afraid of and I’m not just talking about four letter words. YOU POSTED THE FUCKING CARTOONS wingnut.

  342. Violet says:

    Infidel, are you addressing me as a wingnut? I’m totally confused.

  343. Alon Levy says:

    He had waged war against both Jews and Christians for many years before he died.

    According to Muslim myths, he waged war against Pagans more than against Jews and Christians (in reality he was as Pagan as the people he conquered, assuming he even existed).

  344. Infidel says:

    I may have missed the linguistic genesis of the “wingnut” reference. I know what a real wingnut is. It shouts “OPPOSING THUMB”. I tried to research proper “Godbag” usage, even following the reference you supplied. I sort of think I know who a “Godbag” might be. Wingnut I just thought was stupid. Don’t get me wrong, I think it heroic you posted to the world what some newspaper merely posted to a nation. If your anonymity becomes comprimised your in serious trouble. Anyways I don’t know how well all this blogging would work if it all weren’t anonomous, or the web for that matter. Don’t use your real name! God forbid anyone have the ability to know who you are! With God there is no anonymity. God knows it is you that can’t spell.

  345. Violet says:

    Wingnut comes from “right-wing nut.” So a wingnut, in contemporary American parlance, always refers to a person who holds right-wing beliefs.

  346. Infidel says:

    The wingnuts find it reprehensible to publish offensive and forbidden images.
    The lefties may not agree with the wisdom but defend the right.
    A title flashes “Rights in Conflict”(never read it but the title is compelling)
    What are our rights in conflict? We are at war. A never ending war that might terminate next term; leaving a protracted war to finish-but I digress. Our rights in this conflict can’t be what they were. We must give something. Wingnut, Godbag, DingDong, HoHo, and Digeradoo alike. All I see and all I feel is business as usual. Then this cartoon thing. Please Violet you must unpost the cartoons as surely as you won’t post [deleted] and apologize.

  347. Violet says:

    Infidel, do try to control your Tourette’s Syndrome. That stuff just bothers me, and seeing as it’s my blog and all, I think you should indulge my sensibilities. Thanks.

  348. Infidel says:

    (blushing)Limes, all limes and not a spot of lemon.

  349. Violet says:

    Good boy!

    I don’t expect anyone to threaten me because I posted the cartoons. They’ve been widely disseminated all over the internet; they’re even on Wikipedia. I think I was one of the first blogs to post them, but that’s all. People seem to get much more agitated about newspaper publication.

    In this situation, wingnuts actually favored publishing the cartoons because they relished the opportunity for a pissing contest with Muslims. As I’ve said elsewhere, wingnuts don’t really give a damn about freedom of speech. It’s just a game of us vs. them. (Note that when the new Abu Ghraib photos surfaced, the wingnuts bitterly opposed their publication because they made America look bad.)

    Some leftists found themselves in an awkward situation with the cartoons because, while they endorse freedom of speech, they saw these particular cartoons as just an axe in the hands of anti-Muslim conservatives. Obviously I was one of the leftists who decided that the principle of free speech needed to be explicated and defended, despite the complexities of this particular situation (deliberate provocation by the original newspaper, socioeconomic and cultural tensions, rightwing political posturing, manipulation by Muslim leaders, etc., etc.)

  350. Infidel says:

    Did you need to obtain copyrights to post these cartoons?

  351. Infidel says:

    “They’ve been widely disseminated…”
    That doesn’t make it right.
    Please unpost them. You haven’t compensated the artists for their additional risk. You are not always right. I promise I’ll go to all the other sites I can find and pettition them to pull the cartoons and apologize. These are the peaceful means by which we can wage the new war.

  352. Infidel says:

    What if you asked some misosgyneist legislator to pull some patriarchal legislation- and he did! wouldn’t that be great? Ideal? Come on Violet- stand for something, don’t be a tool. Don’t play into the wingnuts favor, perpetuating a pissing contest. Puleeese(puppy eyes)

  353. Infidel says:

    Violet, This is my final. I don’t belong posting. Thanks for your patience and tolerance. In the interest of world peace won’t you please unpost the Mohammed cartoons. Keep the Jesus ones if you wish. Christians suffer for his sake and it beats hell out of being fed to lions. But it is, every time, on every display, a grievous insult to some Muslims. Won’t you please unpost them? Demonstrate to the world your understanding and sensitivity. A disclaimer isn’t enough. Noone gets hurt isn’t so. Thanks,
    -Greg-

  354. Violet says:

    Aw, don’t take it personally that I closed comments in that thread. I should have shut it down a long time ago, it had gotten so far off-topic. Too much heebie-jeebie nutbaggery talk.

    I’m not going to take down the cartoons. I am taking a stand for something: free speech. That was the whole point of the post.

    Reading and commenting on blogs can be extremely addictive, especially when you first start. If you feel like you need a break, then you probably do. Blogging should be no more obsessive than reading the paper every morning. Take a break and return to the blogosphere when you can enjoy it as an occasional thing.

  355. gelna_nani_lived says:

    people who wrote stuff like andrew #77…they are totally wrong. Yeh there are some places where people go according to traditions rather than religion and do stuff like forced marriages. I am a muslim girl and I made sure i knew about my rights and I was suprised to find out i have so many. Did u know i have the right to take half of my husband’s earning and keep it for myself while my husband pays all other expences with his half? Iam also allowed a job as long as i am able to look after my kids and not flirt with other men! kind of cool. Head scarf are worn by women to protect them and their modesty…they are less likely to be raped, wolf-whistled at if they dress islamically!
    AS for killing it is SOOOOOO NOT allowed in Islam. The people who do the killings haven’t got their facts right. Islam is actually a religion of peace( and so are all the other religions I know of). People who do the killing aren’t true muslims and matrydom is rubbish! why? because killing yourselffor your religion is when the other side starts war with muslims. I do jihad every morning and I don’t kill people. Jihad just mean following your religion to its maxium without harming anyone…WHY CAN’T THE WORLD LIVE IN PEACE? WHY DOES EVERYONE BELIEV THE NEW? WHY DOESN’T EVERYONE SEE THAT MOST MUSLIMS ARE NICE FRIENDLY AND HAVE A LIFE? i RESPECT EVERYONE’S RELIGION SO WHY CAN’T THEY RESPECT MIN??!!?

  356. John C... :o) says:

    Subject: MUSLIM OUTRAGE

    Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building – because their faces were exposed.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia – A Christian school.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt.
    No Muslim outrage.

    A Muslim attacks a missionary children’s school in India. Kills six.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Let’s go farther back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons.
    No Muslim outrage.

    Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed.
    Muslims are outraged.

    Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage …

    but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban…..WOW!!!!!

  357. K_T_A says:

    Greetings people,

    Muslims do believe in all other prophets and messengers of God including Moses and Jesus. It is unacceptable to mock or use any of the messengers’ character for any cartoon or fun making activity. All of the prophets and messengers should be treated with a high level of esteem and respect.

    This is why there have been no counter attack using caricatures or cartoons in Muslim societies.

    Having said that, what triggered the boycott and other reactive measures across the world, regardless of how good or bad it has come to be, is the fact that the newspaper refused to apologize for any offense this has caused and it was all described as “Freedom of Speech” and Islam was described to be an anti-freedom religion which is not the case.

    I believe this has happened due to the long period where Muslims were feeling that the west is not taking them into consideration and treat them with disrespect and advertising them as terrorists. At the end of the day, I thank god that Hitler (Holocaust), U.S. President Harry S. Truman (Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki), the act of killing 3000 Sikhs in return to the assassination of Indira Gandhi -= and the list can go on forever =- were neither Muslims nor Muslim acts!

  358. hurricaned Hank says:

    TORONTO (CP) – Protesters gathered on a downtown sidewalk in front of the Danish consulate Saturday in support of free speech and the publication of controversial caricatures depicting the Islamic Prophet Muhammad.

    The cartoons, first published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September, have been denounced by Muslims for depicting the Prophet as a terrorist, and sparked violent protest and unrest worldwide in recent weeks.
    Some of the demonstrations have turned deadly, claiming at least 45 lives worldwide.
    One of the 12 drawings depicts Muhammad wearing a turban shaped like a bomb with a lit fuse. Muslims consider any physical representation of the Prophet to be blasphemous.
    While other countries have republished the cartoons since the initial printing, further fuelling the controversy, protesters continued to target Denmark in their demonstrations, with attacks on the country’s embassies in Muslim countries, setting the country’s flag on fire, and calling for a boycott of Danish goods.
    “Some of us will not stand idly and meekly by while a principle fundamental to any free society is violently and senselessly threatened,” event co-organizer Daniel Dale told the cheering crowd of between 100 and 150 people on Saturday.
    “We will not stand idly and meekly by while a democracy and ally is violently and senselessly attacked.”
    Demonstrators waved large Danish flags and carried placards proclaiming the importance of freedom of expression in a democracy.
    Former television news anchor Peter Kent, representing the non-profit Canadian Coalition of Democracies, told the crowd that free speech, no matter how controversial, should be respected within a democratic society without fear of retribution.
    “Any democracy worth its salt should be strong enough to endure the most controversial speech,” said Kent, who ran as a Conservative but failed to unseat Liberal Carolyn Bennett in a Toronto riding in the January election.
    “That speech cannot be corrupted or compromised or silenced by intimidation or fear of violent reprisal,” he said.
    “We in Canada and free people around the world have the right to offend and to be offended. We do not have the right to respond to offence with violence.”
    The Toronto rally was inspired by a similar demonstration Feb. 24 at the Danish embassy in Washington.
    Dale, a York University business student, said that while he and event co-organizer Nav Purewal don’t support the content of the cartoons, they stand by their publication and the decision of the Alberta-based Western Standard and Jewish Free Press to reprint the cartoons last month.
    “Our intent is not to incite or provoke, but simply to stand in solidarity with a democracy and an ally and to express support for free expression,” Dale said.
    Similar events are now planned for London, England; Sydney, Australia; New York, San Francisco and Chicago.

    As the GREAT MARHARI-WHAT-EVER SAYS:
    DO NOT ALLOW A MAN TO GET YOUR GOAT, OR, YOU WON’T BE ABLE TO CURRY IT!.

  359. Reclusive Leftist » Blog Archive » Mormons Don’t Want To Be Misunderstood says:

    [...] (Which reminds me — I never did finish my series on “Religions Evolve.” I posted Part 1 and Part 2, and then The Deluge came (here and here) and my little blog was overrun. After the storm subsided it’s not entirely clear what kept me from posting Part 3, but one theory that’s been gaining traction lately is that I forgot. Sigh. I’ll try to fix that this week.) [...]