Blogging for Bodily Integrity, as explained to the men in our audience
Today we’re observing the 33rd anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the landmark decision that handed women power over our own bodies. This was a power white men had enjoyed since the founding of our republic, and one that black men had achieved legally (though not practically, of course) a hundred years before.
You see, that’s what the right to an abortion is: it’s power over your own body. It’s the right to decide whether or not you’re going to incubate a fetus. It’s the right to fundamental bodily integrity.
I’ve always thought the pro-choice movement made a serious error when it settled on “choice” as the euphemism for the right to an abortion. Choice sounds like something you get at a Chinese restaurant. It sounds like having a nice variety of car colors to choose from, instead of only basic black, as Henry Ford envisioned.
It’s not “choice.” It’s personal, physical sovereignty.
If you’re a man, and you’re having a hard time grasping this, try the following thought experiment: Imagine if the government had the right to force an organ transplant on you. Imagine if the government had the right to take one of your kidneys, assuming it decided that somebody else needed that kidney more. Think of it: you’re at the mercy of the government. The fate of your own internal bodily organs is at the whim of some bureaucrat or judge.
Or try this (again, if you’re a man): Imagine if the government had the right to sterilize you. Governments used to do this, actually – our own experimented with sterilizing blacks, the Nazis experimented with sterilizing Jews. So, imagine if the government had the right at any time to seize you and sterilize you. They wouldn’t do this to all men, of course; just the ones the government didn’t want to procreate. Maybe just self-described liberal men. Heck, maybe just liberal bloggers of El Salvadoran extraction. There aren’t too many of those, but I’d be willing to bet that if the U.S. government were seizing them from the streets and force-sterilizing them, there would be an outcry.
And the outcry would be from everyone who values liberty, everyone who abhors a police state, everyone who understands that sovereignty over your own body is the root of freedom. I don’t think it would be dismissed as a fringe issue. I can’t imagine people saying, “well, it’s just liberal El Salvadoran bloggers that this is happening to. It’s a fringe issue.”
Buy a clue, boys: Abortion isn’t a fringe issue either.
First of all, anything that affects more than one half of the population is, by definition, not on the fringe. (And if you’re a Democrat, anything that affects well over half your voters is sure as hell not some little side issue.)
Secondly, abortion isn’t some girly “choice” thing, like which brand of tampon to use or what color nail polish to apply. It’s the right to control our bodies. It’s the right to determine what happens to our bodies, to determine if we will bear children, to determine our own destiny.
So, you liberal men: Let’s not have any more of this talk of abortion rights as something we can give up in exchange for greater popularity with people who vote Republican anyway. It’s not a bargaining chip, and it’s not optional. If you’re willing to sell me and my sisters down the river, then you might as well switch sides. You belong with the party of torture, extreme rendition, wiretapping, and thought police. The party of people who think “human rights” is a racket dreamed up by Amnesty International. Those are your kin, your brethren.
Got it?
*****
(Posted in conjunction with: Blog for Choice)
29 Responses to “Blogging for Bodily Integrity, as explained to the men in our audience”
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Alon Levy says:
I can’t imagine people saying, “well, it’s just liberal El Salvadoran bloggers that this is happening to. It’s a fringe issue.”
Well, I can. Americans have a remarkable tendency to label things as “women’s issues,” “blacks’ issues,” and so on, and then claim that these are distinct from real issues like social security and which party wins the election.
So, you liberal men: Let’s not have any more of this talk of abortion rights as something we can give up in exchange for greater popularity with people who vote Republican anyway. It’s not a bargaining chip, and it’s not optional. If you’re willing to sell me and my sisters down the river, then you might as well switch sides.
As a male liberal, let me put it this way: I’m not a politician, and I probably never will be. However, if I were, I’d have to make compromises, sacrificing issues I deem less important so that I’d be able to fight for issues I deem more important. As a blogger I can say what I want about ANWR and tax cuts and education reforms; as a politician, I’d have to compromise on some of these. But abortion would always be the issue I sacrifice for, not the issue I sacrifice. I’d always compromise on taxes to save privacy, not the other way around. I’ll be willing to acquiesce to bans on abortion on the same day I’ll acquiesce to rounding up Jews and throwing them into gas chambers. As far as I’m concerned it’s not a women’s issue, but a basic civil liberty under attack, much like the right to have sex with someone of the same gender or the right to publicly oppose the government or to live without fear of being gassed for being Jewish.
January 22nd, 2006 at 2:42 pm EST -
Mister Nice Guy says:
Bodily integrity. Yes, that’s exactly it.
When illegal abortionists start drawing false analogies with “babies”, get them back to the subject right away by reminding them that there’s one important difference between a fetus and a baby.
And — get a clue — that difference is at the heart of the issue. It’s why there *is* an issues at all.
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Joe Malik says:
I agree with you, 100%. It IS about bodily integrity. Unfortunately, people in our society DON’T own their own bodies. Just try to smoke a joint in the privacy of your own home – whoops, you’re a criminal! In fact, we spend $40 Billion a year to wage “war” on people just like you! The gummint has the right to tell you what you can do with your brain, your bloodstream, all your parts. Shit, look at the terminally ill folks who want a pain-free, peaceful exit of their own choosing. Sorry! Team Bush and The Schiavostapo of the right nearly had a friggin’ aneurysm just because the SCOTUS had the nerve to interfere with their fascist intimidation of doctors in Oregon. Oh well, new golden boy Roberts knew just how to vote, lining up with the Scalia-Thomas “Federal Power is A-Okay, as long as it is being used to repress or otherwise fuck with individuals.. and not corporate profit-mongering” Axis. Oh, well, so much for “State’s rights”, eh?
All these shitheads who can’t find a “right to privacy” in the Constitution should be reminded that there’s nothing about the DEA or a federal role in telling people what they can or can’t smoke in their own homes in the written-on-hemp Constitution, either.
But I digress. The point is, for these people, there IS NO “physical integrity”. See, as far as they’re concerned, OUR bodies belong to “God”, and his legitimate proxy here on Earth, the divinely anointed Republican Party and George W. Bush. They don’t give a shit about “life”, it’s all about control- and yes, they don’t want you to have control over your body. As the pro-life goons are already celebrating the overturn of Roe, many of them have moved on to the next phase of the battle, which is the war on ALL forms of legal birth control.
Anyway, I’M a liberal man, and choice- in ALL it’s forms- and personal, bodily self-determination is a deal breaker for me. I will NOT support any candidate that equivocates on the matter of reproductive choice and Roe v. Wade.
And frankly, I’d LIKE for our Democratic Party to take a clearer, stronger stand for the right of consenting adults to be left the hell alone about ALL of their personal choices.
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Violet Socks says:
I love you guys. I love men who get it.
And Joe, I’m with you — we should be free to die, get high, whatever.
There’s an idea afloat that women get more liberal with age while men get more conservative. That’s certainly true with my parents. I mentioned abortion to my dear mother, and she said “Of COURSE women should control their bodies, and not only that — people should have the right to die, drugs should be legal — all of it!” (Meanwhile Dad’s reading Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin.)
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Alon Levy says:
Mr. Nice Guy, there are two important differences, and I’ve already gotten into arguments with pro-choicers over which is more important. The more clear-cut of the two is that fetuses are parasitic on women’s bodies whereas babies are not, but in addition, fetuses aren’t sentient whereas babies are, except in a gray area a few weeks before and after birth.
Joe, if I’m not mistaken, Scalia said that although he personally opposed legal abortion – presumably in the sense that if he were a legislator and the issue came to a vote, he’d vote to ban all abortions – but believed it was a state issue and would strike down a federal abortion ban. And as for what the Constitution says on drug enforcement, conservatives would answer your charge by saying it doesn’t give people the right to smoke drugs.
Violet, with my parents it’s not really true; my dad seems as libertarian as he’s been for the last 15 years, whereas my mom has become slightly less appreciative of civil liberties since the 80s. Still, they’re both pro-abortion (not just pro-choice), pro-gay rights, pro-euthanasia, and pro-legalization of marijuana.
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Janeen says:
Sing it, sister! Found you via your comments at Twisty’s. Am enjoying you much. Onto the blogroll you go.
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Violet Socks says:
I’m honored, Janeen.
Funny thing — I found your blog through Twisty a few days ago, and in fact was this close to posting a comment on your note about Bachelor #2. Reminded me of some things I went through. Then I thought, “oh, she doesn’t need any advice from me!” Well, now I just might have to come over there and offer you my advice whether you need it or not!
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Catherine N.X. says:
Maybe when more American men start realizing how much more fun they’d have if they still had their foreskins, they’ll wake up.
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Peggy Park says:
Using your analogy of the government forcing a castration on someone — that would be a great analogy if a male’s organs possessed a different DNA or blood type, i.e. if those organs were not really a part of his body. But that’s not the case.
With abortion, we’re talking about ripping something out of my body that has its own DNA, its own brain waves, its own blood type. It isn’t MY body. Who are we kidding? That entity with its own DNA is, by definition, NOT a part of my body — EVERY cell in MY body possesses the same DNA. The life inside my womb is a separate person. And that’s the undeniable fallacy of your argument. It’s NOT about my body, it’s about the life that is temporarily living in my care inside my body. -
Alon Levy says:
With abortion, we’re talking about ripping something out of my body that has its own DNA, its own brain waves, its own blood type.
When you eat something, it takes the body hours to digest it completely; until then, it retains its own DNA. Besides, do you know how many microscopic animals you inadvertently eat every day, all with their own DNA and brainwaves?
Besides, if DNA determines identity, does it mean that a pair of identical twins should be considered as one person?
The life inside my womb is a separate person. And that’s the undeniable fallacy of your argument. It’s NOT about my body, it’s about the life that is temporarily living in my care inside my body.
I’ve yet to see a single coherent argument that distinguishes fetuses from mites, goats, or cows.
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Alon Levy says:
Maybe when more American men start realizing how much more fun they’d have if they still had their foreskins, they’ll wake up.
Actually, American abortion law is more liberal than abortion law in most European countries, including those where there’s no genital mutilation of anyone.
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ad-kay says:
Maybe just self-described liberal men. Heck, maybe just liberal bloggers of El Salvadoran extraction.
Started snickering at that one. You hit the nail on the head. I’m so sick of “liberal” men coolly discussing the political ramifications of overturning Roe v. Wade and how it would actually be a “good” thing, blah blah blah. Listen up, guys: there is no compromise on bodily integrity!Found you via Angry For a Reason (via Ginmar).
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Violet says:
Welcome, and thanks! I wonder how many people got that.
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Greg says:
If it were JUST your body, I’d have no problem with this. However, the pro-choice ‘community’ has taken it upon themselves to twist this issue of the fetus/baby and turning it into something as insignificant as a piercing or a tattoo.
In response to “imagine if the government had the right force an organ transplant on you”. This scenario does not apply as nothing is being forcibly removed or implanted. You had sex with a man (hopefully by mutual agreement) and the seed you have spawned is not a tumor that you’re being forced to live with and put your life at risk.
In response to “imaging if the government had the right to sterilize you” This scenario also does not apply. Restricting abortions does not sterilize you (ok, so it does for 9 months but then you can start again). The right scenario would be, “imagine if the g’ment had the right to force you to breed and father a child” But again, the point goes back to a mutual, usually unprotected moment with a partner.
What many men are against is the Father’s right to know or consent. When we see women using abortion as a method of birth control and without the father’s knowledge, we get a little feisty.
Look at your arguement, are you really putting a fetus in the same vein as a piercing or a tattoo? Is that ALL that you see that we’re trying to put some archaic twist on your body. Rather, many of us are trying to get you to awaken to the fact that you have the beginnings of a new life inside you. A baby!
Imagine if you abort your fetus and then when it comes time when it’s convenient for you, YOUR BODY tells you that you don’t have that ability anymore?? Was that choice worth it to you?
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CR says:
What many men are against is the Father’s right to know or consent.
I am mad radical when it comes to this one. The man has no right- none. He orgasmed, that’s it- and that’s all.
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CR says:
As for making women “awaken” to any facts. The ladies know perfectly well what it all means- AND THEN SOME, and they don’t need any help from the peanut gallery to explain anything to them as if they didn’t know or understand.
Giving you are hard time, I surely know it, Greg.
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Infidel says:
Argument falls flat. Your body is yours- that includes any growing fetus, zygote, blastoma until birth. Explained to men in audience. At birth argue me this. Its in my head, what I need explaination of is passing throught the birth canal. How far back from this? Viability? There is no answer and argument falls flat.
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ehj2 says:
In July of 2005, BitchPhD wrote a post here:
http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/2.....rtion.htmlSome Facts About Abortion:
For the record:1. The number of abortions is “continuing its decade-long drop and stands at its lowest level since 1976.”
2. “Women with unintended pregnancies are those most likely to get abortions.”
3. “Six in 10 women who had abortions in 2002 were mothers.”
4. “The majority — 56 percent — of women who terminate their pregnancies are in their twenties. Teenagers between 15 and 19 make up 19 percent of abortions, although this percentage has dropped substantially in recent years.”
5. “low-income women are overrepresented among those having the procedure. Sixty percent of women who had abortions in 2000 had incomes of less than twice the poverty level –below $28,000 per year for a family of three, for example. This is in part because “low-income women have lower access to family planning services.”"
6. “Almost 90 percent of abortions are performed in the first trimester — during the first 12 weeks after the first day of the woman’s last menstrual period — with most performed before nine weeks.”
7. “Less than 1 percent of abortions are done after 24 weeks.”
So the next time some wank job tries to make “abortion” into a discussion about “late-term abortion,” or starts nattering on about how pro-choice women hate babies, or how “abortion is on the rise” or how awful it is that women have abortions out of “convenience,” hit ‘em with the facts, and ask them if they think that trying to support a family of three on less than $28,000 / year is a question of convenience, or survival.
/ehj2
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Infidel says:
24weeks 1% ok, no discussion, no argument. Just a wank. What comes to mind? What’s your problem? Your body is yours.
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Violet says:
My god, a drive-by twit.
However, the pro-choice ‘community’ has taken it upon themselves to twist this issue of the fetus/baby and turning it into something as insignificant as a piercing or a tattoo.
Where? When?
Look at your arguement, are you really putting a fetus in the same vein as a piercing or a tattoo?
Well, no. I didn’t mention tattoos or body piercings anywhere in my post. Are you hallucinating? (This may be the answer to the question above — you’ve hallucinated the tattoo argument.)
In response to “imagine if the government had the right force an organ transplant on you”. This scenario does not apply as nothing is being forcibly removed or implanted.
Forced pregnancy means that the goverment is forcing a woman to incubate a fetus against her will. Since men don’t have babies, the transplant scenario is perhaps the closest a man could come to that situation.
You had sex with a man (hopefully by mutual agreement) and the seed you have spawned is not a tumor that you’re being forced to live with and put your life at risk.
Sex isn’t always consensual, and even when it is the goal usually isn’t pregnancy. If the government forces me to incubate a fetus I don’t want, then it’s interfering in my bodily integrity just as surely as if it were preventing a cancer patient from having a tumor excised. You do realize that most people probably do bring their tumors on themselves — smoking, eating fatty food, whatever? By your reasoning it would make sense for the government to force everyone to live with their tumors — reap what you sow!
And by the way, pregnancy very often does put a woman’s life at risk.
Of course the tumor analogy is not perfect, but then nothing is, since men don’t get pregnant.
The real issue of course is that humans have sex for lots of reasons other than pregnancy, and they always have. Humans have always needed a way to eliminate unwanted pregnancies. What drives the anti-choicers crazy is just the idea of women exercising that agency rather than men.
In response to “imaging if the government had the right to sterilize you” This scenario also does not apply. Restricting abortions does not sterilize you (ok, so it does for 9 months but then you can start again).
Bearing a child changes a woman’s body forever, and her life as well. It’s permanent. That’s why I used the sterilization analogy — a permanent change to your body.
Rather, many of us are trying to get you to awaken to the fact that you have the beginnings of a new life inside you. A baby!
Thank you for this statement, since it illustrates more clearly than anything else just how stupid you are. I mean, the rest of your comments are knuckle-dragging stupid, but this one is almost reptilian. You actually think women don’t understand about babies? That women don’t understand what pregnancy means?
Look, twit: the very fact that pregnancy is so serious is the single best argument for ensuring that each woman has completely control over what happens. It’s nobody’s business but hers. It’s her life at stake — in more ways than one — and the last thing she needs is some ignoramus like you to come along and “explain” to her what’s happening in her body.
Fuck off, twit.
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ehj2 says:
Greg,
Unless you really are a fish (which simply sprays sperm in some vegetation) and not of the reptilian class to which your communication style suggests you belong, and therefore actually can have sex, I assume that on occasion you have sex.
Now imagine — voila — that something happens to your body. And under whatever and all circumstances that this magic happens, you — yourself — you personnally — YOU — get something growing inside you — that YOU PERSONALLY will be responsible for. FOR TWENTY YEARS OF YOUR LIFE.
In case this is too hard for you, imagine that the law you so desperately want says that the woman you have sex with has the right to simply hand to you a baby if there is an “outcome” to your having sex AND YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT FOR THE NEXT TWENTY YEARS OF YOUR LIFE.
If you want to impose the penalty, are you willing to bear the price?
/ehj2
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ehj2 says:
see, it just doesn’t work for me. whenever i try to be an ass, i goof it up.
that should read
Unless you really are a fish (which simply sprays sperm in some vegetation) and truly are of the reptilian class to which your communication style suggests you belong (and therefore actually can have sex), I assume that on occasion you have sex.
maybe you could fix for me and accept my apology.
/ehj2
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Violet says:
Actually I think it was better the first way. Second one’s wacky, fish not being reptiles and all that.
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Greg says:
You are correct, you did not make the leap to piercings or tattoos, yet the way you and others like you argue this topic do make the fetus sound insignificant i.e. tattoos or piercings.
I noticed you immediately refer to me as a twit and later stupid. I’m trying to debate this topic in an unemotional and rational manner.
I also noticed that you, and others, fail to respond to my last comment,”Imagine if you abort your fetus and then when it comes time when it’s convenient for you to have a baby, YOUR BODY tells you that you don’t have that ability anymore?? Was that choice worth it to you?”
I am not asking for a ban on abortions.
I am not debating at what point life begins.
I am not referring to abortion as murder.What I am trying to convey to you is that we are in a world that repeatedly begs fathers to step up and take action, and men to be men and not horned up bastard-breeders and woman bashers, to consciously and willingly participate in a healthy family relationship. And when you have someone like me who has been affected by this, it becomes an important issue.
Imagine you’re in a committed relationship with agreed upon goals of wedded bliss and a future family. You have sex that is consensual and protected, yet a pregnancy occurs. The woman doesn’t tell the father about the pregnancy and takes it upon herself to abort the fetus without telling the father. Months later a bill comes in the mail addressed to the father (she was on his insurance)and there in nice black bold typeface is the word “abortion”.
How would you feel?
By your argument, this in an appropriate response because she is a woman and it’s her body. According to your argument, I am only a sperm donor, nothing more. I have no rights.
My knuckle-dragging stupid twit mind gets a little bent out of shape when pro-choice advocates won’t consider a COMPROMISED approach to abortions, i.e. father’s consent or mandatory wait periods or counseling. Or even to acknowledge the father’s position. Legally, we can’t force you to have an abortion if you choose to keep it and we can’t force you to go through with the pregnancy if we don’t want to be involved (however we would still be financially responsible for the upbringing – once again your choice)
Yea, all sex is not consentual. I’m not talking about that. I’m not talking about one-night stands, or rape or incest or nights of drunken debauchery where you don’t know the father’s name or likeness. I’m talking about a majority of the unexpected pregnancies that occur. Usually with someone you know and care about or are in a long-term committed relationship.
Yea, pregnancy can affect a woman’s body, from day 1, and so can the effects of an abortion.
Abortion can still be an OPTION, but don’t you think it’s wise to consider all the options.
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Violet says:
No, twit, you don’t understand: FUCK OFF. When you say things like, “many of us are trying to get you to awaken to the fact that you have the beginnings of a new life inside you. A baby!” — you have abdicated the right to discuss this in a unemotional objective manner. If you said that to me in person, I would physically assault you. Are you reading me, twit?
The only reason I answered your inane comment was for the sake of anyone else who might be reading. I have nothing to say to you or any other asswipe who would DARE speak to a woman about pregnancy in that condescending manner.
Begone, twit. NOW.
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Infidel says:
So for bodily integrity as you’ve just explained it, inane commentary just excludes one from even the possibility of the attempt to make understand. “Imagine you are…” that is the way, in your initial post, Violet, that you tried to explain. Okay. The worst I could try to make you imagine that I can think of is, Violet imagine your in a world where you actually are all the things patriarchy tries to make you and there is no way around it, like a queen bee, just there to plop out new pupa- waited on hand and foot but that is your life and there isn’t alternatives. Now imagine you suddenly have imagination and objectivity(and your a bee) you’d be like that fly, stuck in a web, screaming to Vincent Price. Help me! Help me! and he wouldn’t be able to do much but throw a brick and smash the web the spider the fly fuck it all.
In this world- TOTALY YOUR BODY MAAM. maybe our child when the time comes, that’s something else. YOUR BODY ALL THE WAY. YOURS YOURS YOURS. ALL YOURS. -
Chris Clarke says:
Imagine you’re in a committed relationship with agreed upon goals of wedded bliss and a future family. You have sex that is consensual and protected, yet a pregnancy occurs. The woman doesn’t tell the father about the pregnancy and takes it upon herself to abort the fetus without telling the father. Months later a bill comes in the mail addressed to the father (she was on his insurance)and there in nice black bold typeface is the word “abortion”.
The hell with the abortion. I don’t care about the abortion. What’s the deal with the item two below that? A Jet-Ski? Who told you you could buy a goddamn Jet-Ski? I scrimp and I save with that lousy paycheck you bring home, haven’t bought myself a new pair of shoes in two years. TWO YEARS! and you go out and buy a fucking Jet-Ski. Did you even THINK before you bought the stupid thing? What about that fancy treadmill you’ve got sitting in the garage? When’s the last time you used that? “No, I’ve got to have it,” you said. “I need to get in shape.” Yeah, right. Maybe you can sleep with your PRECIOUS FUCKIGN JET-SKI TONIGHT!
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Mandos says:
The use of modus tollens is interesting though:
1. If you correctly understood that it is a baby, then you would oppose abortion.
2. You do not oppose abortion.
3. Therefore, you do not correctly understand that it is a baby.
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